Question about command squad bodyguard.

[Daigo Cannon]

I need a little help reading correctly this rule.

It mention that the ability can be rolled each time the character looses a wound and the body guard will take the hit and suffer a mortal wound.

How does this interact with D3/D6/DX Damage or any multi damage hit?

Rob is hit by a lass cannon and damage rolls a 6.

 

Do I get to roll 6 dices and with a 2+ the 6 damages are intercepted by the bodyguard as mortal wounds?

Or will I need 6 bodyguards each one intercepting 1 damage?

 

Thank for the help Fraters

Edited October 16, 2017 by Daigo Cannon

[Frater Cornelius]

For every wound lost by the Character. This means that if the LC did 6 wounds, you roll 6 dice and for every 2+ (or 3+, depending on the unit), the CS gets a MW. The way I see it, yes, you need 6 bodyguards to save one LC shot. Seems rather ludacris, but hey, welcome to 8th, where flamers automatically hit flyers ;)

[Prot]

That's funny. I just had a game where the Deathguard player told me it was silly that his plague marine plasmagun would over heat easier because it was targeting a flyer.

 

I said yea, about as silly as your Bloat drone farting out a chemical that is auto hitting that same flyer soaring overhead. :)

 

We take the good with the bad in 8th.

 

I personally wouldn't use a bodyguard right now but maybe someday, with a Apothecary it could make sense?

[Daigo Cannon]

Okay thanks for the help, I was thinking that was the right interpretation but the "intercept the hit" part was bothering me a little.

Let's wait for Chapter approved to see if they will get better.

[MeltaRange]

I'm skeptical just because how much better Savior Protocols from Tau Drones would be compared to this if true.  Hopefully it gets FAQ'ed. (or Savior Protocols gets nerfed)

[MeltaRange]

After reading the rulebook pg 181 specifically section 4.5 "a model loses one round for each point of damage it suffers" so looks like everyone was right here. It's not when the wound is allocated (before damage is applied) it's when it loses the wound (after damage)

 

Though, intercepting the hit does imply something different. It could use a FAQ

Edited October 18, 2017 by MeltaRange

[Bugmansgunt]

Sorry guy's but your wrong :D

 

It say's on a 2+ a model can intercept the "hit" ( the LC is one shot = so ist one hit ) so the D6 Damage turn's into 1 mortal wound.

 

It's the same as shooting with a LC at a 5 men Squad, you just can kill one model with it, even if it does 6 Damage.

 

You have to see the word's a LC does one "wound" (because it's one shot)  that makes D6 "Damage"

 

And the Bodyguard takes the hit not the Damage.

 

I hope you guy's did get what i'm saying :D

It's the same as drones from th Tau or the Guard of morti.

[Bugmansgunt]

I mean ist self-explanatory.

 

How do you explain to split up the damage of one hit?

BigG gets hit by a LC and miss the save ... now the guard come's around the corner and asks bigG if it hurts, and if he should take a bit of the pain away? lol

(yeah that makes sence) ;)

[Toxichobbit]

For every wound lost by the Character. This means that if the LC did 6 wounds, you roll 6 dice and for every 2+ (or 3+, depending on the unit), the CS gets a MW. The way I see it, yes, you need 6 bodyguards to save one LC shot. Seems rather ludacris, but hey, welcome to 8th, where flamers automatically hit flyers

 

and yet automatically miss Valhallans in melee. It's a funny old world.

 

Sorry guy's but your wrong

 

It say's on a 2+ a model can intercept the "hit" ( the LC is one shot = so ist one hit ) so the D6 Damage turn's into 1 mortal wound.

 

It's the same as shooting with a LC at a 5 men Squad, you just can kill one model with it, even if it does 6 Damage.

 

You have to see the word's a LC does one "wound" (because it's one shot)  that makes D6 "Damage"

 

And the Bodyguard takes the hit not the Damage.

 

I hope you guy's did get what i'm saying

It's the same as drones from th Tau or the Guard of morti.

 

I mean ist self-explanatory.

 

How do you explain to split up the damage of one hit?

BigG gets hit by a LC and miss the save ... now the guard come's around the corner and asks bigG if it hurts, and if he should take a bit of the pain away? lol

(yeah that makes sence)

 

 

I can see why you'd think that, but unfortunately your interpretation doesn't match up to the rules as written.

 

Command Squad Bodyguard  "Roll a dice each time a friendly <Chapter> Character looses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit; on a 2+ a model from this squad can intercept the hit - the character does not loose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound."

 

Emphasis mine. Also note the Honour Guard rule is identically worded.

 

If you break down the sentence, there's a couple of things going on which I've highlighted. You go through this process each time the character looses a wound. Not each time they are hit, not each time they are wounded, but each time they loose a wound. That's an important distinction. The use of "intercept the hit" later on in the sentence is a perfect example of GW's bad rules writing as it does add confusion. Never the less, it doesn't change the order of resolution, as I'll explain below.

 

So, now we need to know exactly when a character looses a wound. If we then look at the main rulebook under stage 4. of the Shooting rules, Resolve Attacks (p181, hardback 8th ed rulebook), the order is clearly set out. Hit Roll - Wound Roll - Allocate Wounds - Saving Throw - Inflict Damage. Anyone could be forgiven for thinking that the Bodyguard rule would kick in at the Wound Roll, Allocate Wounds or even Hit Roll step. Unfortunately, it doesn't. The wording for that would need to be

 

"each time a friendly <Chapter> Character is wounded whilst they are within 3" of this unit ..."

or

"each time a friendly <Chapter> Character is allocated a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit ... "

or

"each time a friendly <Chapter> Character is hit while they are within 3" of this unit ... "

 

Instead, the Command Squad Bodyguard rule kicks in when the character looses a wound, which is the very last part of the Resolve Attacks sequence, after damage has been inflicted. To quote;

 

"The damage inflicted is equal to the Damage characteristic of the weapon used in the attack. A model looses one wound for each point of damage it suffers."

 

It's a cut and dry case I'm afraid, there's not even any debate here. The Command Squad Bodyguard rule clearly states that it kicks in when a character looses a wound and a character only looses a wound after the damage has been rolled. So, yes, a lascannon can wipe out a Command Squad (or Honour Guard) with one shot if you choose to use them to take the shot.

 

That said, I'd have no problem playing against someone who wanted the Command Squad to only take one mortal wound from a lascannon shot, becasue lets face it, the rule is silly otherwise. Of course it would have to be an agreement between the players, a house rule, if you like. In a tournament, playing a new opponent or any other kind of formal game, it's better to follow the rules as they are written, not a version of the rules that you (or I) prefer because they make more sense.

 

Also, your reference to T'au Drones and Deathshroud Terminators isn't quite right, as both have different rules. The Deathshroud's Silent Bodyguard rule kicks in when a character is hit and transfers the hit to the unit, rather than dealing straight mortal wounds. So it's better, but you can still loose entire an multi-wound Terminator to bodyguard duty from something like a lascannon. T'au Drones Saviour Protocol allows you to allocate wounds to the Drones, obviously this happens during the Allocate Wounds step, so before damage is rolled meaning a Drone can absorb an entire lascannon shot's damage. Yeh, Marines got by far the worst of these bodyguard style rules . Time to pester GW on Facebook.

 

 

As for the rule must work a certain way, because that's the only way it makes sense, see the comments on flamers above. How do you explain that a flamethrower is the most accurate anti aircraft weapon (I'm sure I don't have to explain what happens if you fire a flamethower into the air)? How do you explain that a flamethrower is able to shoot into a melee and avoid friendly fire? Rules are an abstract of reality. They don't always make sense and they don't always have to have an explanation. I agree that it's really silly that a lascannon can suddenly hit five extra guys because they are acting as bodyguard, but unfortunately that's the way the rule works. Hopefully it'll be FAQ'd. Until then, I guess we train our Command Squads/Honour Guard to form protective conga lines in front of our officers .

[Bugmansgunt]

I see your point, and guess your right :DDD silly me, and silly rules writer :P

I may have to Change my list now, I'm glad i didn't played with it yet.

 

And sorry to everyone I confursed >.<

[Kallas]

Company Veterans are still worthwhile. You just need to be picky about when you use the ability, for instance: Captain and Veterans charge an enemy character and squad, have the Veterans attack the squad first to cut down numbers. If they interrupt to try and bring down the Captain, sac off a wound or two to keep him up (assuming that he'd die otherwise), and since your Veterans have already attacked it's not too bad. Then the Captain gets to happily go to town on the enemy character.

 

Edit:

Plus they're good at bringing decent firepower/melee threat with a small footprint - you can take a 5-man Tactical Squad, a Captain and 4 Company Veteran s/3 Company Veterans with a Lieutenant, and stuff them all in a Rhino. The CVs can keep the characters kicking while they provide the buffs to the group as well adding their own output.

 

A Veteran with Power Sword and Storm Bolter is only 22pts, they're essentially a unit of Tactical Sergeants that bodyguard. They're pretty good!

Edited October 19, 2017 by Kallas

[Bugmansgunt]

I'm thinking of a 5man Company Veteran with Power weapon and Storm shield.

What do you guys thinks of that? to expensive?

[Daigo Cannon]

I will use vanguard veterans for full melee veterans, the option to use jump packs is better for mobility once they are done with first target unit. Too personally I believe a full unit with SS is not an optimized unit, will prefer 3 SS/2 guns.

[Kallas]

I will use vanguard veterans for full melee veterans, the option to use jump packs is better for mobility once they are done with first target unit. Too personally I believe a full unit with SS is not an optimized unit, will prefer 3 SS/2 guns.

 

Yeah, I agree.

 

If you want melee weapons in a Company Veteran squad, I'd forgo pure melee. Throwing in a couple of Storm Shields isn't a bad shout, but I'd say their biggest draw is their ranged flexibility: bring Combi Weapons (which are somewhat less attractive on Sternguard now) and things like Power Weapon plus Storm Bolter for good versatility with reasonably cheap cost (Power Sword plus Storm Bolter CV costs 22pts, while bringing the firepower of two Tactical Marines and good melee potential).

[Grim Dog Studios]

I play Power Level so points cost aren't an issue for me. I've been toying with the idea of a 5-man Veteran Squad all with the Power Weapons and Combi-plasmas to accompany a Captain. They'd probably end up being entirely useless but they'd look damn cool on the table!