Noise marine unit composition

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Seeking some advice from my fellow Emperor's children, or anyone who has given thoughts to this issue.

 

I'm currently modelling up 12 noise marines, but am uncertain to field them as 2 x 6 marine squads, or as a 12 marine squad.  They will be 10 sonic blasters and 2 blastmasters?

 

I know minimum squads are generally advisable in 8th ed due to the way morale and special weapons work.

 

However with noise marines the weapons loadout is the same regardless of whether I go 6 or 12 (I get the same number of blastmasters and sonic blasters either way), so I'm not loosing out on upgraded weapons by going 12.

 

So, it really comes down to endless caucophony, which favours a bigger unit.  Is getting more shots with that strategem worth the added risk of loosing relatively expensive models due to morale failure?

 

As well, how are people kitting out fheir champions in shooty noise marines squads?  Much to my surprise, the champion can also take a sonic blaster, so I was thinking sonic blaster and combi-bolter would be a good combo.  Or is better to give him a power sword or axe as insurance for if/when the squad gets charged?  My most common opponents play orks (very melee focused, typically in trucks and battle wagons) and necrons (very shooty, lots of destroyers and/or flying vehicles).  Finally, is a doom siren worth it for a squad that will be trying to avoid melee?

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I'd go 2x6 but that's mostly because fluff uber alles.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Well, 12 is 2 x 6, so I would think it would be just as fluffy. :)

[Mekhitar]

I run large squads (2x10) and target them with endless c and VotLW. If you have other units to give those stratagems to (havocs...) you may find you get more mileage out of small squads.

 

I don't use the doomsiren - the marines move or advance once and then camp out and I rarely have cause... and it is so expensive. But my chaos forces are the most cc in my meta (guard, other marines, tau, eldar).

 

I arm the champ with a sonic weapon and a power ax just to make the enemy think twice about locking me up in cc, but to be honest, in the dozen or so games I have played I'm not sure he has ever had to swing it.

[Panzer]

12 if you don't plan to put them in a Rhino since it lets you apply the 5+++ psychic power and the double shooting stratagem on more models at the same time.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

I'm running them by 10 because of rhino.

 

Also i don't think the Noise champ can trade his bolter for a sonic blaster AND a combi-bolter. I find combiplasma/plasma pistol the most fun gear for a Noise champ. Because on death you can unload overcharged plasma like their is no tomorrow (well because there will be no tomorrow for the cham). 

 

I'm not sure if it's the best way to equip him tho. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I guess that depends on how the correct interpretation of "the noise champion may replace his bolt pistol and boltgun with items from the Champion Equipment List."  Which incidentally is the same reading as for a regular chaos marine champion and the chosen champion.  Raptors are worded the same way, but with "bolt pistol and chainsword" instead.

 

My read on that language was that it gave you 4 options: swap nothing, swap the boltgun, swap the bolt pistol, or swap both. Otherwise, giving a champion a power weapon would require them to give up their bolt pistol.

 

If my interpretation is correct, than the noise champion can swap the boltgun for a sonic blaster, and the bolt pistol for a combi-bolter.

 

Are you suggesting that on death the champion can unload both the combiplasma and the pistol?"  Because the noise marine rules say it can shoot 1 weapon on death.  So I'm not really seeing the point of a pistol and a combi-plasma. 

[Panzer]

Dr_Ruminahui is right. You can have both, a Sonic Blaster and a Combi weapon on the champion if you give up on the Bolt Pistol.

And he's also right with that you can't shoot the Plasma Pistol and the Combi-Plasma together when you die. For one because you can only shoot with one weapon and then because you can't shoot Pistols together with other weapons.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Are you suggesting that on death the champion can unload both the combiplasma and the pistol?"

 

 

No i meant i like to give my Noise Champ either a combi plasma or a plasma pistol depending on point you want to invest on that model. You are totally right you can only shot with one weapon on death as @sfPanzer reminded me on another topic. 

 

 

"the noise champion may replace his bolt pistol and boltgun with items from the Champion Equipment List."

 

 

As you says, it's a matter of interpretation. I fear GW meant you can have either a boltgun and a chainsword Or a sonic blaster.

To put it in your words : you can swap both for sonic blaster, or swap nothing, or swap both for champ equipment (where you can take back your bolt pistol, for example with bolt pistol + power maul). 

 

But English is not my mother tong and i put magnets on every squad leader so dont take my thought for granted. 

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Well, 12 is 2 x 6, so I would think it would be just as fluffy.

 

True. I roll better when I do squads of six, though. There is no chance this is a result of confirmation bias.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

"the noise champion may replace his bolt pistol and boltgun with items from the Champion Equipment List."

 

 

As you says, it's a matter of interpretation. I fear GW meant you can have either a boltgun and a chainsword Or a sonic blaster.

To put it in your words : you can swap both for sonic blaster, or swap nothing, or swap both for champ equipment (where you can take back your bolt pistol, for example with bolt pistol + power maul). 

 

But English is not my mother tong and i put magnets on every squad leader so dont take my thought for granted. 

 

He's right with that tho. That's how it works for everyone with similar wording as well so no reason why it shouldn't work that way for us. The way english works doesn't change just because it's Emperor's Children. :D

If it makes you feel better, even Battlescribe allows to do so. It's not an official app by GW but with such things they are generally right. ;)

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Honestly, I don't see how you interpret it any other way.

[dakkamasta]

I just run a unit of 10 or sometimes split into two units of 5 in a rhino with my Black Legion. I run every model with sonic blasters and leave it at that (sometimes a power sword if I have spare points). I think doom sirens are over costed and blastmasters encourage the unit to remain stationary which I don't like. All sonic blasters give the unit a dedicated anti-infantry role and they perform it very well.

[GreyCrow]

What does the rest of the army looks like ? :)

 

There is no "better" or optimal way to kit a squad, including size, it all depends on its role within your army (as in YOUR army, not CSM in general) :)

 

Blastmaster sounds nice, might as well have it than not :D

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks for everyone's comments so far.  Definitely given me food for thought.

 

 

My army is so far is (its a work in progess).  All units able to take a banner (except chosen) have one - don't ever play against imperials, but I like to model them.

 

Lord with jump pack & 2x lightning claw.  Elixir & EC warlord trait.

 

Sorcerer with jump pack, bp, force sword (I've been playing around with the psychic powers , so I don't have any set).

 

Apostle with power maul & combi-metla

 

10x CSM with plasma & lasconnon.  Not very impressed by these - likely be replacing them with noise marines in mid-point games.

 

10x melee cultists with flamer

 

10x autogun cultists with hvy stubber, champ with shotgun

 

6x bikes with 2x plasma and champ with combi-plasma

 

8x raptors with melta & flamer, champ with bp & power fist

 

6x chosen, 1x twin lightning claw, 1x power axe, 2x bolter, 1x pistol and chainsword, champ with bp & power fist.  The Dark Vengence marines - they look nice, but perform poorly - I only field them when I need the points.

 

Helbrute with multimelta, fist & hvy flamer

 

Forgefiend with 2x hades autocannons & ectoplasm cannon.

 

 

Things on the painting or construction bench: 20 more cultists, 12x noise marines, 2x helbrutes (one dark vengence, one regular), daemon prince and 2x spawn.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Dr_Ruminahui

[GreyCrow]

Thanks for the write up !

 

In your specific case, I would go for 6+6, simply because you are lacking troops for deployment.

 

You basically want to delay as much as possible the deployment of your more elite unite, as in the ones that will force the opponents' hands to react.

 

In your case, Raptors, Bikers, the 2 walkers. And the chosen to a lesser extent.

Like you totally mentionned, these units attract a lot of firepower, so you have to delay deployment as much as possible so that you can avoid as many enemy fire as possible.

 

Noise Marines are a good fire support, but their damage output is not that significant. It's a notch above regular CSM and should be treated as such!

 

Order of deployment should be :

- Cultists (bait and rabble, you don't care to lose them. The gods will decide if they are worthy)

- CSM (either full man or 5 men squads), because plasma and lascannon are good all rounders and have the range to provide support regardless of enemy deloyment

- Noise Marines (same reason as above and take the blastmaster for support), but with a couple of targets in mind and deployed to put pressure

 

That will give you 4-5 units deployed before your heavier hitters !

Then, depending on what is on the table, your units starting with the most resilient vs enemy weapons to the least. Always try to optimize deployment based on :

- Position that optimizes threat to intended target

- Position that maximizes survivability (line of sight block against counter weapons, range advantage, cover potential, low efficiency of enemy weapons that can shoot at it, always in that order)

 

Chosen should be always last, the DV ones in 8th are set up as an all rounder counter assault with no preferred target, so you have to judge where they will be the most deterring charges