New to Dark Angels

[Helias_Tancred]

Hey all.

 

I'm a Blood Angel guy, however I recently entered into situation where building a second army has become very viable ;) ... so my eye is on my cousin Dark Angels.

 

I'm more of a fun player, rule of cool > power, I don't play competitively but of course I am aim to win when I play with my friends who are of similar mindset.

 

I'm thinking of going with a core demi-company styled force from one of the battle companies, to this I will add several Deathwing units, and several Ravenwing units. This seems like a fun army that can bring some pain. As part of the Demi-Company I will run a squad or two of Primaris, an intercessor squad and a hellblaster squad.

 

Other than that I'm looking for advice and suggestions on which of our leaders to acquire, and also any key Dark Angel units that are no-brainers in terms of including in this force.

 

Thanks all. /looking around "I like this place called The Rock!"

 

 

[G8Keeper]

Here's a short list of what I'd say are near auto includes for DA:

 

• Darkshroud (-1 to hit is powerful)
• Dark Talon (pours out the dakka and has a nice 1 use bomb)
• Azrael (very very effective in parking lot armies, insert shooty unit ala Predator Annihilator)

I would also say that if you run a particular company of DA then their master is needed ie Belial and Sammael.

 

Hope that helps.

[Berzul]

I'd add that current unit cost makes it harder to bring in a tri-wing army, so if you plan on going for a Demi Company of Greenwing at the base of your lists, I think you'd be better served adding one secondary wing, not both, so that you can make the most of your points. Sinergy is key, after all.

[Pigshead]

I'll second azrael, dark shroud and dark talon, although I will say this, while the dark talon is theoretically good, I've only seen it perform well once, the rest of the time it dies straight away.

 

I'm also very fond of black knights.

[Berzul]

I'll second azrael, dark shroud and dark talon, although I will say this, while the dark talon is theoretically good, I've only seen it perform well once, the rest of the time it dies straight away.

 

I'm also very fond of black knights.

 

If you run the Darkshroud with Black Knights, you can keep a formation of Knights, Shroud and Talon, at a constant rate of 20 inches of movement, while still firing at (almost) maximum efficiency. Makes the Talon at -2 to get hit throughout the game, which makes it extremly dangerous to your opponent.

 

I have played the Talon often in my most recent games. At first, it was the crowing jewel of the list, performing admirably in taking down lots of infantry. Then, my opponents started to get nervous about it, and it became a bullet magnet of sorts. This worked wonders as well, as it was always keeping other units safe. That's when I started playing it next to the shroud as uch as possible. Having your opponents fire everything at it out of desperation, and having everything miss horribly, is simply exhilirating.

[Helias_Tancred]

So a Greenwing demi-company, and either Deathwing or Ravenwing units for support, but not both? Okay. I sorta prefer the Deathwing over the Ravenwing personally. Will that be a problem?

 

I also plan on getting a Repulsor, Primaris Dreadnought, and will probably run a Primaris "command" squad too.

[Pigshead]

So a Greenwing demi-company, and either Deathwing or Ravenwing units for support, but not both? Okay. I sorta prefer the Deathwing over the Ravenwing personally. Will that be a problem?

 

I also plan on getting a Repulsor, Primaris Dreadnought, and will probably run a Primaris "command" squad too.

I don't see it being a problem. I love Deathwing too, I haven't actually used them at all yet this edition. But then I've not used my Dark Angels as much as previous editions, yet. I've been trying to compare Deathwing and Ravenwing for a while. If you take a 5 man unit of each and put them side by side, they are basically identical in terms of shooting, with the ravenwing 54pts cheaper. The real difference, and really the deciding factor, is what would you rather have, 2+ armour and 8 power fist attacks, or speed? It probably depends a lot on your opponent, your own playstyle, and the type of game you play. One of my most regular opponents is brutal in his list building, his luck with dice is incredible, and he never thinks twice about firing las cannons with re-rolls at anything that threatens his deployment zone. So if I drop Terminators 9" away from him, I'm pretty sure they are going to die. They might get that 9" charge off, and they will probably kill whatever they are aimed at, but then they will die. A Squad of 5 bikers is less of a priority target for him, and we mostly play maelstrom missions, so their speed lets them grab those distant objectives. Another opponent of mine plays guard, and with the new codex out, I'd probably find neither unit would survive very long, with battle cannons and punishers firing twice at them. But if I wanted to wreck a Leman Russ, I'd put more faith in 5 terminators with power fists than 5 Ravenwing guys with bolt pistols. But then again, are they ever going to get that charge off, or will they get overwatched to death?

 

Personally, I would say go with what you want to play, unless you are in the ultra competitive tournament scene. I've played some absolutely rubbish lists at times, but had great fun doing so. Get some Deathwing to back up your green boys, you can always grab some Ravenwing later if you fancy a change, right?

 

And as for the Primaris dudes, I've not used any yet (Just painting mine up, I have a strict painted models only policy), but I've fought against them, and they are good. And I'm a big fan of anything that wields multi barreled spinning guns, so I'd say definitely grab the Dread. In fact, now I've said that, I might go buy one now.

[sneakybamsen]

Fluff-wise a lot of DA players seem to think that primaris don't really fit DA in terms of our seclusion and reluctancy towards accepting new guys into our ranks. I'm one of those players, I gotta admit. I don't like the primaris fluff, and that made me certain I didn't want to field primaris under DA colors. I've toyed with the thought of a Raven Guard primaris army, because at least they fit the bill better fluffwise.

 

That said, unless you plan to play really big games, building a demi company is a toll on points, especially if you want full squads. My last game my opponent and I agreed to go just a nudge over 2K, and I went for pure greenwing. 30 tacticals, 10 devastators and 10 assault marines plus veterans, ancient and apothecary (in a land raider with my interrogator chaplain). A couple of transports added with one or two dreadnoughts, and you're sitting at close to 2k. That leaves very little for doing anything else in most games. My point is that you'd be better off not splitting the points into 3 or 4 pots, as you'll end up with an army that wants to do too many different things to be any good at either. Of course you can shave down the number of marines, ditch the vets and the land raider, and that will free up a lot of points, but at what cost? It quickly loses the feel of a demi company.

 

Going the other way with greenwing is a parking lot around Azrael, Dark Shroud and a primaris lieutenant. It's not nearly as fluffy, but it kicks a** if you build the rest of the army around making the most of this combination. Just remember bubble wrapping (scouts or conscripts). That seems to be the strongest type of list DA can field (tournament stuff).

[Berzul]

Of course, you could always form the basics of a Demi Company without forming the full company itself. For instance, add bikers instead of assault marines, landspeeder typhoons and/or a landspeeder vengeance instead of devastators, deathwing terminators and/or deathwing knights instead of veterans, etc.

[Major_Gilbear]

Firstly, welcome to the Rock! :D

 

Secondly, I don't think that your proposal is bad at all. A demi-company with Ravenwing and Deathwing elements will always give you something to try out (form a purely playing perspective), and I daresay that you'll eventually buy whatever characters take your fancy (most people usually end up with all the ones with an official model anyway). This is also a fairly sensible way of ensuring that what you collect retains at least some competitive elements as different Codexes and editions drop.

 

If after a few games you decide that you want to expend your Deathwing and/or Ravenwing further (and inevitably most DA players seem to), that is also fine and will open up different and more specialised styles of play for you too.

 

I will refrain from commenting on any specific "must have models" from a competitive point of view, as these seem to change regularly and it seems daft to chase them unless you're going to participate in a tournament. If there is anything that obvious, I expect it will catch your eye anyway! ;)

 

Similarly, I will refrain from commenting on the Primaris; I understand that not everyone likes them, or feels that they fit their view of the Space Marine army they want to collect, and that's fine. If you like them and want to include some in your force, then that's fine too. In fact, as you get into the DA fluff a bit more, you might want to make yours a task force drawn from across the Unforgiven rather than just from within the Dark Angels chapter itself. This might also be a good way of incorporating some Primaris into your force without making them strictly Dark Angels - different DA successors (which includes the Unforgiven) have differing views and/or levels of knowledge about their origins/secrets, and your Primaris might be from one of these successors.

[Chmur]

Welcome to the fold!

 

I, like some others, recommend going 3-wing for the start - if only to test colour scheme and different painting and enjoy the awesome models that we have Dark Angel specific. Yes, as has been said, current "Dark Angel meta" is really Azrael, Darkshroud and as much dakka as you can possibly pile into one place, but that is as well caused by not having codex released - and looking at other faction codices, I think we will get very nice and thematic tactics that will allow the use of more variable army list (that being said, you can never go wrong with having Azrael and Darkshroud). So feel free to start collecting 3-wing and build up from there. The models really are fun to paint and collect even if they don't go onto battlefield that often.

 

For the Primaris discussion - there is no official information yet. I will just paste my response to another thread, summing up my thoughts:

 

Based on the book, all Chapters got Primaris Marines, some even got Primaris Successors. As the Primaris were created from Primarch geneseeds, there are children of Lion running out and about. The main issue some have with Primaris is that we're secretive chapter, yadda yadda. As I love the Primaris models, being bigger means they are JOY to paint, I have decided to create a Primaris Company for my Consecrators. Fluff-wise, they are still overwatched by hardened small-marine interrogator chaplains and whatnot. My logic behind this is, regular marine goes through Chapter indoctrination from being Scout through strike company and then into RW/DW to learn about Inner Circle. I see no reason why Primaris couldn't follow the same manner and rites of initiation. Besides, if our Chapter is good enough to keep it a secred from regular battle company dudes, we can probably keep it like it before Primaris company.

[ValourousHeart]

If you want to get one unit from each wing to try your hand at painting different colors, go for it.

 

But the main thing that I would advise is that you take a good look at your BA collection and really focus on doing something completely different with your DA collection.

If your BA army is typically tactical squads and assault squads, then focus on Bikes and TDA squads.

 

And because I'm a big fan of Land Speeders, I'm going to give them a plug.

 

Other Space Marine chapters can take speeders, but they are all limited to 3 per squad, except for DA who can take up to 5 in a squad.

Speeders have a rule that allows the unit to move faster if there are 3 or more in the unit, moving 20 inches a turn instead of 16 inches.

When you only have 3 in the unit it only takes 6 wounds to slow that unit down.

Whereas with the DA it could take as many as 18 wounds to slow the unit down.

 

Think about it, 18 wounds removes a SM Land Speeder unit from the table.

But 18 wounds only slows down the DA land speeder unit to 16 inches a turn.

[JJD]

If you are looking to start a new Dark angel army and don't plan on diving straight into primaris get yourself on eBay and pick up some dark vengeance marines from the 6th and 7th edition starter sets. Pick them up cheap whilst you still can.

 

I can't recommend this enough.

 

If your not familiar you get a 10man tac squad, 5 man terminator squad, 3man ravenwing squad, a librarian and a company master with the same loadout as Azreal so you can easily proxy.

 

After that pick up 2 razorbacks and a dark shroud and you have a core army.

Edited October 20, 2017 by JJD

[Helias_Tancred]

If you are looking to start a new Dark angel army and don't plan on diving straight into primaris get yourself on eBay and pick up some dark vengeance marines from the 6th and 7th edition starter sets. Pick them up cheap whilst you still can.

 

I can't recommend this enough.

 

If your not familiar you get a 10man tac squad, 5 man terminator squad, 3man ravenwing squad, a librarian and a company master with the same loadout as Azreal so you can easily proxy.

 

After that pick up 2 razorbacks and a dark shroud and you have a core army.

 

I'm a GW employee, my 50% discount is helping enable this ;) ... eBay? You mean that daemon is still around? lol.

[JJD]

 

If you are looking to start a new Dark angel army and don't plan on diving straight into primaris get yourself on eBay and pick up some dark vengeance marines from the 6th and 7th edition starter sets. Pick them up cheap whilst you still can.

I can't recommend this enough.

If your not familiar you get a 10man tac squad, 5 man terminator squad, 3man ravenwing squad, a librarian and a company master with the same loadout as Azreal so you can easily proxy.

After that pick up 2 razorbacks and a dark shroud and you have a core army.

 

 

I'm a GW employee, my 50% discount is helping enable this ;) ... eBay? You mean that daemon is still around? lol.

Can I borrow your discount

[Punk possum]

Are you in the retail division? if so its probably worth asking around to see if any stores still have the DV Dark Angels expansion set. From memory that gives you a Dark Talon some deathwing/deathwing knights and some Black knights so pretty much all the cool DA stuff then just garnish with regular ravenwing, greenwing and HQs that suit how you like/want to play.

[Helycon]

If you find another of those sets for normal price, I'm game too. That was way good value.

[Grand Master Raziel]

Welcome to the First Legion, brother!  Do honor to the Lion!

 

I'm going to recommend Sammael for an honorable mention.  He's like a Chapter Master for Ravenwing, and also allows rerolls of 1's to hit for other DA units in his vicinity.  He's also a beast on the charge, and has the highest Toughness of any of our HQs.  He has decent firepower in both his incarnations - obviously the better one is the speeder with its twin heavy bolters and twin assault cannons, but the jetbike isn't bad either - the plasma cannon is a little iffy, but the twin storm bolter is respectable dakka.  If you're going to run a Ravenwing formation of Black Knights, Speeders, and a Dark Shroud, putting Sammael in the mix is worth considering.  Really helps out the Speeders in particular.

[Helias_Tancred]

I was thinking of Azrael, a ten man Lascannon Dev squad, all in ruins with a Darkshroud within 6". 

 

Lethal.

[Chmur]

I was thinking of Azrael, a ten man Lascannon Dev squad, all in ruins with a Darkshroud within 6". 

 

Lethal.

As well overpowered as hell and not fun to play against. Darkshroud + Azrael + Lieutenant and dakka around it is the best tactic we have - but it's seriously overpowered for regular gaming - trust me on this, I have just won a semi-competetive tournament with Azrael gunline. It's fun to feel so powerful, but in the end of the day, it's dirty.

 

I am not saying not to use it - definitely try it out and have fun with it. However if you want to play friendly games, I would pre-advise this ahead so the opponent does not come with something too fluffy to deal with this.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

I was thinking of Azrael, a ten man Lascannon Dev squad, all in ruins with a Darkshroud within 6". 

 

Lethal.

As well overpowered as hell and not fun to play against. Darkshroud + Azrael + Lieutenant and dakka around it is the best tactic we have - but it's seriously overpowered for regular gaming - trust me on this, I have just won a semi-competetive tournament with Azrael gunline. It's fun to feel so powerful, but in the end of the day, it's dirty.

 

I am not saying not to use it - definitely try it out and have fun with it. However if you want to play friendly games, I would pre-advise this ahead so the opponent does not come with something too fluffy to deal with this.

 

 

Thanks for your feedback. I like to win, but I'm still a fluffy player, not powergamer. Back in 7th I ran Crimson Fists for a year, and tried out the Skyhammer Annihilation Force formation. I had a similar experience to what you mentioned, in the end it did not deliver the sort of game I enjoyed. 

 

I'm thinking a Dev squad with 4 lascannons, Azrael, in ruins and a nearby Darkshroud would be a real vehicle/monster killer but not game breaking?

[Bryan Blaire]

Maybe a Dev squad with 4 Plasma Cannons to play the not-theme of plasma for the DA...

[Interrogator Stobz]

Welcome to the Rock

 

Be Pure,

Be Vigilant,

Behave.

 

 

And have a little fun if you want ;)