My Path to Tournaments

[Explorer1]

 

 

 

It is my understanding that all intercept stratagems work for On Wings of Fire because the strat says you "remove the unit from play" in order to set them up elsewhere. If Forewarning reads anything like Auspex scan they can use it when a unit arrives onto the battlefield; which would include On Wings.

 

I think it's already been covered, but both Auspex  Scan and Forewarning only work on "reinforcements". A unit using Wings isn't reinforcements. So neither Auspex Scan nor Forewarning works on a unit dropping in using Wings. 

 

 

 

Got a link for that? 

 

 

Just read the Stratagem again. It specifically mentions to work on units coming from reserves (it's reserves, not reinforcements! Two different things!). Upon Wings of Fire doesn't place your unit into reserves so those Stratagems don't work on it. Unlike the T'au EWO support system which doesn't mentions reserves in any way and thus strictly RAW even works on units disembarking from transports (I really hope the wording will be better in the Codex!).

 

 

You seem very certain it's "reserves"  - but I've just read the strat again. My version (digital copies) says reinforcement. Is yours different? Dont think it makes any difference, units using on wings of fire are neither.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

It is my understanding that all intercept stratagems work for On Wings of Fire because the strat says you "remove the unit from play" in order to set them up elsewhere. If Forewarning reads anything like Auspex scan they can use it when a unit arrives onto the battlefield; which would include On Wings.

 

I think it's already been covered, but both Auspex  Scan and Forewarning only work on "reinforcements". A unit using Wings isn't reinforcements. So neither Auspex Scan nor Forewarning works on a unit dropping in using Wings. 

 

 

 

Got a link for that? 

 

 

Just read the Stratagem again. It specifically mentions to work on units coming from reserves (it's reserves, not reinforcements! Two different things!). Upon Wings of Fire doesn't place your unit into reserves so those Stratagems don't work on it. Unlike the T'au EWO support system which doesn't mentions reserves in any way and thus strictly RAW even works on units disembarking from transports (I really hope the wording will be better in the Codex!).

 

 

You seem very certain it's "reserves"  - but I've just read the strat again. My version (digital copies) says reinforcement. Is yours different? Dont think it makes any difference, units using on wings of fire are neither.

 

 

Hah! I wouldn't put my hand in fire for that. The brain tends to remember things wrong and to change right memories over time. I could easily be wrong about that since I didn't check it and by being pretty tired. :P

[Spagunk]

The stratagem reads:

"Use this stratagem in your movement phase before moving a Blood Angels Jump Pack unit from your army. Remove the unit from the battlefield and set it up at the end of that phase, anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models".

Nothing in there about reserves or reinforcements. You pull the figures off at the start of the movement phase and set up at the end. RAW states that the intercept would not affect it (Not a reinforcement deployment) unless it specifically states otherwise.

 

So here is the 40,000 dollar question: does the UWoF stratagem count as a "reinforcement" move or not?  The battle primer states that units that are set up "mid-turn" are covered under the reinforcement rules. I would say this implies that the type of move is a Reinforcement move since it corresponds to all the same "criteria" and rules that reinforcements do. If you look, no where does the Jump Pack Assault rules state that they are put into reinforcement or perform an reinforcement move either. So by that logic even normal "deep strike" rules do not count too. But on the other hand, UWoF is a stratagem which normally always override the standard rules like most board games do (cards override the main rules).

 

This is probably something that we may need to take to the rules forum though.

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

The stratagem reads:

 

"Use this stratagem in your movement phase before moving a Blood Angels Jump Pack unit from your army. Remove the unit from the battlefield and set it up at the end of that phase, anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models".

 

Nothing in there about reserves or reinforcements. You pull the figures off at the start of the movement phase and set up at the end. RAW states that the intercept would not affect it (Not a reinforcement deployment) unless it specifically states otherwise.

 

So here is the 40,000 dollar question: does the UWoF stratagem count as a "reinforcement" move or not?  The battle primer states that units that are set up "mid-turn" are covered under the reinforcement rules. I would say this implies that the type of move is a Reinforcement move since it corresponds to all the same "criteria" and rules that reinforcements do. If you look, no where does the Jump Pack Assault rules state that they are put into reinforcement or perform an reinforcement move either. So by that logic even normal "deep strike" rules do not count too. But on the other hand, UWoF is a stratagem which normally always override the standard rules like most board games do (cards override the main rules).

 

This is probably something that we may need to take to the rules forum though.

 

 

Yea I agree here. I was re-reading the "reinforcements" rules from the BRB and its pretty broad. To me UWoF would count as reinforcements under BRB.

[Explorer1]

The stratagem reads:

 

"Use this stratagem in your movement phase before moving a Blood Angels Jump Pack unit from your army. Remove the unit from the battlefield and set it up at the end of that phase, anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models".

 

Nothing in there about reserves or reinforcements. You pull the figures off at the start of the movement phase and set up at the end. RAW states that the intercept would not affect it (Not a reinforcement deployment) unless it specifically states otherwise.

 

So here is the 40,000 dollar question: does the UWoF stratagem count as a "reinforcement" move or not?  The battle primer states that units that are set up "mid-turn" are covered under the reinforcement rules. I would say this implies that the type of move is a Reinforcement move since it corresponds to all the same "criteria" and rules that reinforcements do. If you look, no where does the Jump Pack Assault rules state that they are put into reinforcement or perform an reinforcement move either. So by that logic even normal "deep strike" rules do not count too. But on the other hand, UWoF is a stratagem which normally always override the standard rules like most board games do (cards override the main rules).

 

This is probably something that we may need to take to the rules forum though.

 

Hmmmm......I see your point. It's not as clear cut as I thought. I guess it turns on whether you need to come in from reserve to be a reinforcement, or whether redeployment is also reinforcement. Frankly I dont think there's a clear answer. "Sigh" - one of the TO.

[Spagunk]

 

The stratagem reads:

 

"Use this stratagem in your movement phase before moving a Blood Angels Jump Pack unit from your army. Remove the unit from the battlefield and set it up at the end of that phase, anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models".

 

Nothing in there about reserves or reinforcements. You pull the figures off at the start of the movement phase and set up at the end. RAW states that the intercept would not affect it (Not a reinforcement deployment) unless it specifically states otherwise.

 

So here is the 40,000 dollar question: does the UWoF stratagem count as a "reinforcement" move or not?  The battle primer states that units that are set up "mid-turn" are covered under the reinforcement rules. I would say this implies that the type of move is a Reinforcement move since it corresponds to all the same "criteria" and rules that reinforcements do. If you look, no where does the Jump Pack Assault rules state that they are put into reinforcement or perform an reinforcement move either. So by that logic even normal "deep strike" rules do not count too. But on the other hand, UWoF is a stratagem which normally always override the standard rules like most board games do (cards override the main rules).

 

This is probably something that we may need to take to the rules forum though.

 

Hmmmm......I see your point. It's not as clear cut as I thought. I guess it turns on whether you need to come in from reserve to be a reinforcement, or whether redeployment is also reinforcement. Frankly I dont think there's a clear answer. "Sigh" - one of the TO.

 

I can definitely see both sides but given that all the other "deep strike" rules don't even mention reinforcement (and the word reserves is completely missing from the battle primer) I would have to side with people who say that UWoF is a Reinforcement action and are thus subject to the intercept/auspex scan rules.

[Panzer]

To counter that argument, units disembarking from transports are set up mid-turn as well and definitely don't have anything to do with reserves.

 

I'll stick with the interpretation that only things that explicitly get put into reserves count as coming from reserves until it gets clarified in a FAQ.

[Majkhel]

The Disembark rule is not similar in this respect that it does not happen at the end of phase (it happens before transport moves, so there is still movement to be played) and all "reinforcement" moves do so in order to support the rule that they cannot move/advance after being set up on the board. 

Isn't reinforcement connected to rules of setting up units before battle? Those that start outside the board are reinforcements and arrive via reinforcements moves. 

[Majkhel]

FAQ to the rulebook says:
Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements.

So as UWoF is removing units from the battlefield and sets them up again, they count as reinforcements and can be targeted by Auspex Scan, EWO and Forewarned.

edit. sorry for double-posting

[Panzer]

Well I guess that settles it.

[Paladin777]

Well that bites...

[Explorer1]

Arse .... thought I had worked out a way to counter Auspex scan and forewarning. 

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

So I have another tournament coming up this Saturday and I've been practicing a new tactic that has been working well so far. I've removed the Lieutenant and replaced him with Lemartes. I also then give the relic JP to the Librarian instead of Capt Smash and give Capt Smash Death Visions.

 

What this does is allow me to land DC bomb, Capt Smash, Lemartes, & Libby. I then cast Wings on the Libby to get him super close to the enemy. Now he has a 2-3 inch re-rollable charge that ignores overwatch. Keeping Smash and the bomb close to Lemartes means now all three of them can re roll their own charges and I pop DoA on the DC bomb.

 

I've only been able to test this twice but I'll probably have one more practice game before Saturday. 

[SydonianDragoon404]

I've been thinking about doing the same, but allowing Capt smash to bypass overwatch just seems far too vital to lose. Let us know how it goes! 

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

Dark Eldar

Scenario 3

Deployment: Search & Destroy

 

My list

Cadia Battalion

 

Company Commander – Kurov’s Aquila, Grand Strategist, boltgun

Company Commander – Boltgun

Tempestor Prime – command rod

 

Infantry Squad – mortar

Infantry Squad - mortar

Infantry Squad - mortar

Scions (5) – meltagun X2

Scions (5) – meltagun X2

 

Heavy Weapons Squad – autocannon X3

Heavy Weapons Squad – autocannon X3

 

BA Supreme Command

 

Capt – JP, relic blade, plasma pistol

Mephiston

Lemartes

 

Drop pod

 

BA Vanguard

 

Capt Smash – Angel’s Wing

Librarian – JP, plasma pistol, force sword

 

Death Company (15) – bolters & chainswords

Sanguinary Guard (10) – swords X5, fists X5

Sanguinary Ancient

 

Steve’s DE

 

Obsidian Rose Battalion

Archon – Djin blade (warlord)

Archon – Helm of Spite

 

Warriors (10)

Warriors (10)

Warriors (20)

Warriors (5)

 

Lhamaen (8)

 

Ravager

Raider

Raider

Raider

Raider

 

Obsidian Rose Outrider

 

Archon

 

Scourges (5)

Scourges (5)

Scourges (5)

 

Black Heart Flyer Wing

 

Voidraven Bomber

Razorwing Jetfighter

Razorwing Jetfighter

 

 

Dark Eldar Victory 36-14

 

Before this game I hadn’t played DE since 7^th edition so I really had no idea what they could do. I asked my friend Space Elf McHandsome Face AKA Stephen to help me practice so I wouldn’t be surprised in a tournament setting. We deployed and I won the roll off for first turn and Stephen failed to seize.

 

Turn 1 I Forlorn Fury my Death Co bomb up the board, then moved them again during my movement phase right into Stephen’s left flank. I dropped Lemartes in near them and then my Sang Guard, Capt Smash, Mephiston, and Ancient on his right and the Scions right in front of his Warlord’s Raider. Since Stephen had started the flyers in his back corner, the 20 man Warrior squad in deep strike, and everything else in his Raiders my goal was to kill his raiders as fast as possible to hopefully prevent him from getting into my back lines with anything but the flyers. I killed all four Raiders, one 5 man warrior squad, one 10 man warrior squad, and 2 Lhameans while managing to completely surround 2 of his Archons with DC.

 

In his Turn Stephen whiffed kind of hard in his shooting phase, only managing to kill 3 DC with the Voidraven’s bomb run but was able to bring both Capt Smash and Mephiston down to one wound each while taking out 6 Sanguinary Guard. He had blocked my 3D6 charge with his Kabal Strat and they had failed their charge which left Capt Smash and Mephiston out in the open. He also landed his Scourges down on my right flank but only killed 3 guardsmen and a single autocannon. In spite of that he was able to charge the remaining Lhameans and Warlord Archon into the DC fight and wiped them completely.

 

For my turn 2 I killed one unit of Scouges and whittled down a warrior squad on my left flank while I moved up Lemartes, the Librarian, and Mephiston to deal with his Warlord Archon and whatever ever else they could do. Mephiston got off Blood Boil while targeting the Warlord but it was denied by the Archon wearing the Helm of Spite which caused Mephiston to perils and explode all over everything in 6”. The resulting explosion took 3 wounds off the Archon, brought 3 Lhameans down to one wound each, took wounds off of the other two Archons, brought my Librarian down to 2 wounds and Lemartes down to one wound. While this accomplished my goal it also was not what I was expecting or hoping for. Lemartes and the Librarian charged the Warlord Archon and killed him but then Lemartes was taken out by a Lhamean.

 

In Stephens turn he brought down the remaining 20 man warrior squad and moved his flyers around to try and take out my Warlord Commander and two units of Scourges up on my right flank. He only managed to put a couple of wound on my Commander but was able to take out my remaining Sanguinary Guard with his Ravager and my Capt with his whittled down Warrior squad. He then opened up the 20 man warrior blob with an absolutely ABSURD amount of shots into my full strength Heavy Weapons team and one Infantry squad on my left flank and wiped them. In his charge phase my Librarian overcharged his plasma pistol to commit honorable seppuku for not really doing much this game and ensuring the Drukhari forces could not take him alive. The Lhameans and remaining Archons then turned their sights on the Scions and Commander to vent their frustrations.

 

Turn 3 saw me using my Ancient to finish off the whittled down warrior squad and grabbing an objective while my last Capt went to die gloriously in combat against the Lhameans and Archons. My remaining guard plinked some wounds off of one of the Scourge squads but Stephen had no issue tabling me in his turn.

 

Sooo target priority is a thing and me not knowing what to kill really hurt me in this game. Stephen thought I should have focus fired on one of his flyers in the beginning with the autocannons instead of shooting Raiders and I should probably have surrounded the Lhamean raider with the DC instead of the Warrior one. I bit too hard on trying to score early points instead of removing the threats that could really hurt me. I probably should have waited until he moved the flyers to bring in the Scions with meltas as leaving them off the table doesn’t really hurt this list. The Lhamean tactic of them all being single model units that can surround all of the Archons (thus screening the characters) while dealing mortal wounds on 4+ in CC is amazing and I had no idea about it until he hit me with it.

 

Stephen is a brilliant tactician and excellent 40K player and really helped me learn today just what the Dark Eldar can do in the hands of a skilled pilot.