Codex comparisons

[Waking Dreamer]

Well based on the fluff, the last two times when GKs took on Daemon Primarchs -  Angron sliced up 2 Grandmasters (plus dozens of GKTs) while Mortarion killed the Supreme GM and his entire Paladin retinue.

 

Id like to think in an era where Mortarion, Magnus and Guilliman stride across the battlefield the GKs have improved their combat proficiency as well - that is, put their strongest warriors (GMs with WS2+ BS2+) in armour better than mere TDA, to inspire (Rites of battle) and fight from the front which they do a lot in the fluff anyway. 

[skarn]

There were no grandmasters that fought angron, it was 100 terminators lead by a brother captain.

 

Fluffwise its pretty hard to justify. Maybe your gmdk are actually paladin champs in upgraded dreadknight chassis'?

Just like how some people model their own hqs and use the rules of special characters that match their wargear loadout?

[Waking Dreamer]

There were no grandmasters that fought angron, it was 100 terminators lead by a brother captain.

 

Fluffwise its pretty hard to justify.

 

My mistake, it wasn't against Angron then but the Greater Tzeentch Daemon Ghargatuloth - 300 GKs with THREE Grandmasters in one battle! No survivors...

 

Against Mortarion, it was the then Supreme GM along with THREE GMs (one of them being Draigo) on the battlefield, all right in the thick of it! Draigo/Voldus and 2 NDKGMs can match the fluff in the headcount of GMs all fighting on the one battlefield - that is, in major battles that actually meant something. 

 

 

 

Maybe your gmdk are actually paladin champs in upgraded dreadknight chassis'?

Just like how some people model their own hqs and use the rules of special characters that match their wargear loadout?

 

 

Basically, NDK models that have WS2+, BS3+ (on the move) and 4++ is what they deserved in the first place - if we are representing the NDK's on table performance to their original NDK fluff. Id rather not hear people telling me I should shelve my NDK models because standard Venerable dreadnoughts with 2+ WS/BS out preform the NDK in nearly every way. Im actually grateful the GK Codex stopped that from happening. 

 

The part where they have GMs piloting them is neither here nor there for me. Every option available to the NDK model is useable in the game now thanks to the GK codex. The index NDK profile was a poor transition for the NDK from it's 7th ed. abilities - and I dont recall anyone with GKs complaining that the NDK 7th ed. stats needed nerfing - mainly that the other units in our 7th ed. codex needed to be on par with the NDK as a standard...

Edited October 29, 2017 by Waking Dreamer

[Plasmablasts]

Yes: not sure why they didn’t just adjust the NDK’s stat line in the Codex rather than creating a new unit which so comprehensively overshadowed it.

[Closet Skeleton]

Just to clarify, if you want to win a GT in the UK, you bring Guilleman, Tigurius, six Razorbacks with assault cannons, five tactical squads with a lascannon and a stormraven. Won every game it played less than two weeks ago

 

He won off soft scores, other lists did just as well in the "all victories" department.

 

Razorback spam isn't that high tier when you're judging those kind of optimized lists against each other.

 

Looking at lists when you don't know what tactics were used each game doesn't tell you how amazing that list actually is.

 

I don't want my codex to be overpowered to beat everyone (I already do that, for the most part, with the current one), I want for it to be internally balanced so every unit and entry (or most of them) is competitive and to have the possibility to play more than one kind of list if I want to do well in a tournament.

 

So you're unhappy with your book despite winning anyway?

 

Sure it would be nice to have better balanced books but setting your standards so high when all of GW's competitors have similar issues makes you sound impossible to please.

 

Grey Knights are a narrative based army that doesn't make any sense outside of scenarios anyway, and balancing books for different kinds of games is basically impossible. There's just so many ways that GK suffer from a game design perspective (the limited model range being the main one).

 

But I'm just an old school 'I have a bunch of silver terminators i leave in the cabinet because I never get around to finding that large scale narrative game vs a huge chaos army' kind of guy who understands that his attitude isn't so relevant to this sub forum.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Closet Skeleton

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah that narrative died when bobby g dragged our chapter around with him on his grand crusade.

 

And the internal balance of our dex is rubbish. Nothing to be proud about. Even if we have 5/6 units that form a solid core that stomps all other non codex armies.

 

As later books are being released GW is becoming more comfortable with the design of 8th and the dexes are getting better and better.

 

Just look at eldar. No new units but stats buffs, loads of points reductions and strat that combine the effects of existing ones instead of being c&p'd and offers great in codex synergy.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Gentlemanloser