Articulate your reasons for not liking certain legions

[Fire Golem]

My issue is that I like every legion to some extent, and can’t choose just one. The FW books particularly have been great at making giving every legion something to like about them (and it just so happens that the ones that haven’t been covered yet, I like anyway).

[Brofist]

I have a hard time liking most of the loyalist legions as I find them a bit one dimensional. The early Warhammer fluff gave a lot of attention to Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, and Space Wolves. If I perceive something as being favored or ‘the best of the best’ and their enemies ‘the worst of the worst’ it gets too black and white for me. I don’t like Star Wars anymore because of the same thing. Some of the traitor legions fall into this too of course. Mustache twirling villains are just as polarizing. FW has done a good job of making this less the case in 30k and I do find more depth to the 30k legions. Still, it’s hard to get past favoritism once it’s in your head, even if it’s just your perception.

 

I’m also a bit of a minority in that I don’t care much for comic book heroes and villains. The Primarchs often get this treatment. I find Perturabo (my own legion) probably one of my least favorite parts of my background. He’s been written so inconsistently that I can’t at all connect to him, understand his motivations, or even wonder how he managed a legion. I basically suspend my disbelief when I think about him. I know self-loathing is an Iron Warrior trait, but the way it’s been handled doesn't work for me.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Bulbafist

[m_r_parker]

What I also tend to find is that my views on certain Legions can be changed by a specific book or novella, something that someone writes will make me think of them in a different light and I begin to feel a connection. I'm guessing that as long every Legion gets one of those moments (from either FW or BL) then eventually I'll end up liking them all, maybe I'll just have to weigh it up against other instances that don't match it.

 

For example, I don't particularly like the Ultramarines in 40k much in the same way that I'm not a huge fan of Superman or Captain America. They're a bit too much into the Lawful Good category that makes them feel far too one dimensional to me. I can't quite imagine them making the hard choices, or fighting an internal moral conflict, like I can see plenty of other elements in the 40k universe. The 30k appearance of the Ultramarines left me feeling pretty similar until I read The Purge by Anthony Reynolds, and it drastically changed my POV. I'll continue the rest of this in the spoiler field below for the benefit of those that haven't actually read the novella yet (but you really should, it's great!)

 

Part of the novella is set on a world within the Ultramar system during the Shadow Crusade, which is being assaulted by a large contingent of Word Bearers and defended by some Ultramarines. The Ultras are being spread thin after the initial attack at Calth, and the defenders here end up on the back foot and are both outnumbered and outgunned. If this were your more typical 40k novel this would be the point where the Ultramarines go for a last stand against the tide of traitors, with a hope that they might just come out of this alive somehow, and they fight back the traitors until they can escape or get some reinforcements. 

 

But this isn't your typical novel, and this is your typical Ultramarine story of 'Courage and Honour' and all that jazz...

 

Instead Reynolds looks towards their assessment of theoretical versus practicals, and gives them a more calculated analysis of the battlefield and a different sense of Courage and Honour. In that assessment of the situation, they know that they are simply beaten and they can't hope to stand against the traitors. They know that they'll never have the opportunity to surrender, that they'll either be slaughtered or worse (this is the Word Bearers after all, who knows what they'll do to survivors to gain favour with the Warp), so they know they are dead either way. The Word Bearer forces track the remnants of the defender forces safe in the knowledge that the Ultramarines wouldn't commit to using wide-spread lethal bombardments if there was still an opportunity to save survivors.

 

They were wrong, and the remaining Ultramarines commence a mass phosphex bombardment of the engagement area. They know they are dead, but by doing this they are ensuring that the Word Bearers take massive casualties in terms of Legionnaire numbers and assets such as tanks and transporters. They deny the Word Bearers any victory other than the eradication of the Ultramarine presence on this planet, and extract the highest possible cost from the Word Bearers. It's hugely practical, and to me speaks much more of Courage and Honour than them simply fighting somewhere under a banner against an incoming tide. To me, that's what made me respect the 30k Ultramarines, but unfortunately it's only a single novella.

[Ascanius]

I like things about all of the Legions, but there are some which I can't imagine painting.

 

The White Scars are one, but not for the obvious reason of white armour being tricky; it's because I don't think red and gold look good against white armour. I also don't particularly care for the Legion symbol; the iconography is appropriate but, again, I don't like it rendered in red and gold. That's specific to the V Legion's mostly white armour, though.

 

I don't think I could do justice to the Death Guard's scheme, less because of the colours than the proper weathering.

[Zebulon]

If I had any major complaint about the Legions as a whole (all of them), it's that GW took a particular trait or historical reference, and just went bonkers with it. Okay, the White Scars are Mongols in space, do you really​ have to beat us upside the head with it constantly? Thousand Sons are Egyptians, Space Wolves are Viking werewolves, Blood Angels are quasi-vampiric near-berzerkers, World Eaters ARE berzerkers, Salamanders like fire (a LOT), Ultras are Romans, Iron Hands are basically cyborgs. All well and good for them to have an inspiration from something, but it doesn't have to color every single aspect of who they are. It feels very......first year creative writing class. Depict more Marines that aren't one-dimensional caricatures of the culture their chapter is inspired by.

I totally agree with this.

 

Although I have a lot of love for the setting, there's one or more things that put me off each of the Legions.

 

DA: insufficient detail at present.

EC: not fond of colours or attitude.

IW: too grim and not enough flair.

WS: a favourite due to 40k representation, yet I'm not that fascinated by Mongolian theme.

SW: not really into Vikings.

IF: not enough flair.

NL: too cartoon evil.

BA: not really into Vampires but I like the other aspects of their traits.

IH: I don't really see the appeal.

WE: no finesse.

UM: I love Greek/Roman theme yet can't warm to them for all the reasons others can't.

DG: too grim, not enough flair.

TS: like Egypt stylings but not that into the sorcery aspects.

SoH: can't love an arch-traitor.

WB: not into their zealotry.

S: I like everything about them except the nonsense about their skin and eyes.

RG: I'd probably like them better if it weren't for the Poe.

AL: their "ooh, mysterious!" Shtick grates on me a bit.

[Droz_64]

I'll give my rationale for each Legion:

 

Dark Angels - I can't put my finger on it. I have no real opinion on them really

 

Emperor's Children - Like overall. Their strive for perfection is admirable, and I can totally see how they could end up as Slaanesh puppets (Probably in more than one way  )

 

Iron Warriors - Like. A lot. I like the "I don't give a damn" attitude, their fighting style, and their origins. Probably a favorite. Also, I LOVE their Grimdarkness. Most legit feeling in terms of messed up-ness in 40k

 

White Scars - I don't really have any interest in space Mongolians. They're kind of a not fleshed out legion, with only one main way to play them

 

Space Wolves - I like the concept of the Emperor's Executioners, literally his dogs/wolves. I like them overall, just not really my type

 

Imperial Fists - Really like. I love their fighting style, units, and focus on siege/boarding warfare. Also, they've got great colors. One of my favorites

 

Night Lords - Like the terror warfare, their... screwed up-ness (?), and I kind of feel bad for Konrad

 

Blood Angels - One of my favorites, love their aesthetics, combat style, and the twin curses

 

Iron Hands - Eh. Seems like AdMech on steroids

 

World Eaters - Pretty cool. Cool colors, really cool weapons, great style, and also the feels - They sacrifice their minds, just to be like Angron

 

Ultramarines - I want to like them, but they keep getting Matt Ward-ed and I just can't

 

Death Guard - I don't like how they look, and their style of war seems pretty uninspired

 

Thousand Sons - I like them alot. They're psychic space Egyptians with skeletons in the closet. In the favorites camp

 

Sons of Horus - They're okay. I dislike how they get the "Ultramarines of 30k" treatment, but they're still pretty cool

 

Word Bearers - Ick. Zealots and Daemon-Worshipers. They're very interesting, their fluff is great, but their obsession can become annoying

 

Salamanders - I don't know. I just don't like them. They're cool, they're interesting, but not... compelling. They don't have some flaw or anything. They're just there. 

 

Raven Guard - They're pretty cool. Their origin is interesting, their style of combat is cool, but they don't seem all that Marine-y

 

Alpha Legion - I honestly don't know

Edited October 19, 2017 by Knight_Commander

[b1soul]

The Ultramarines need more defeats. Deaths. Humiliations. Setbacks that are their own damn fault because of what and who they are and because no Legion is without flaw, especially not the bunch of pedantic, plodding slaves to their father's codex of stolen strategies and paranoid ramblings. Instead, they don't suffer genuine hardship and are flat, sterile dead cutouts because of it. There's no humanity to them, no actual struggle, no sense that they could actually lose and never recover, or even the illusion of that.

 

The UItramarines will always win because GW is deathly afraid of fans like you revolting if they have flaws or shortcomings or, god forbid, aren't the best at anything and everything.

I rest my case LOL...

 

I'm not even sure that UM have been the fan-favourite/most profitable chapter during the past few years...Space Wolves seem to have a much larger fanbase.

 

EDIT: As for more defeats...Angron smashes Guilliman into the dirt, scores of Ultramarines are haplessly butchered by Curze on Macragge. I think there are plenty more if you look for them.

Edited October 19, 2017 by b1soul

[Lucerne]

 

The Ultramarines need more defeats. Deaths. Humiliations. Setbacks that are their own damn fault because of what and who they are and because no Legion is without flaw, especially not the bunch of pedantic, plodding slaves to their father's codex of stolen strategies and paranoid ramblings. Instead, they don't suffer genuine hardship and are flat, sterile dead cutouts because of it. There's no humanity to them, no actual struggle, no sense that they could actually lose and never recover, or even the illusion of that.

 

The UItramarines will always win because GW is deathly afraid of fans like you revolting if they have flaws or shortcomings or, god forbid, aren't the best at anything and everything.

I rest my case LOL...

 

I'm not even sure that UM have been the fan-favourite/most profitable chapter during the past few years...Space Wolves seem to have a much larger fanbase.

 

EDIT: As for more defeats...Angron smashes Guilliman into the dirt, scores of Ultramarines are haplessly butchered by Curze on Macragge. I think there are plenty more if you look for them.

 

And yet Space Wolves aren't shoved down everyone's collective throats and have real, genuine setbacks. Fans hate Ultras but GW hasn't gotten the memo.

 

Angron the newly ascended daemon, as opposed to "Angron who gets effortlessly backhanded by Guilliman Who Can Do No Wrong Ever". The stupidity with Curze in that arc is irrelevant. Keep trying to cherry pick while ignoring context.

[bluntblade]

Angron doesn't ascend before or during that battle. Guilliman retreats when Angron begins transforming, having been mauled in the fight. Heck, he tried to destroy the he Traitors on Nuceria and failed, even if that was partly due to the presence of a king-ship he couldn't know about.

 

My response to any Scars-sceptics is: read Wraight.

Edited October 19, 2017 by bluntblade

[okonomiyakimarine]

Angron doesn't ascend before or during that battle. Guilliman retreats when Angron begins transforming, having been mauled in the fight. Heck, he tried to destroy the he Traitors on Nuceria and failed, even if that was partly due to the presence of a king-ship he couldn't know about.

 

My response to any Scars-sceptics is: read Wraight.

 

'Scars' and 'Path to Heaven' are both excellent reads. I always liked the WS for their color scheme, but the books made me fall in love. Like few other legions I feel the WS portray (or are portrayed to portray) what is at stake in the Dark Age (on the side of the loyalists) and what is it that makes astartes – who are somewhat designed to be loyal soldiers – become 'heretics'. To me their schism put them right next to EC, TS and WB regarding the tragedy of their betrayal or their loyalty respectively. This is also true for DA, NL and (potentially) AL, but of course to a much lesser extent, but this is why i also have lots of sympathy for them. WE, IH and IW i also kinda like for finding themselves in a pretty f***eck up situations …

 

Yet this thread is about legions that we do not like (too). I never really connected with the UM, IF, BA and to a lesser extent Salamanders. But I find it super hard to articulate reasons for not liking them. probably i do not know them enough, potentially due to my ignorance or just less interesting reads. In the end I believe it comes to my interest in the core issues of the Age of Darkness and of course they are much better portrayed in the traitor legions or at least the legions with some problems or complexities.

 

My interest in the Horus-Heresy-series stems from how it portrays the Imperium’s ideals failing at a point in time when it appears to be the closest to eventually achieving ist goals. In my eyes the series reveals again and again why the Imperium was bound to fail from the beginning and possibly by design. By means of exploring individual primarchs’ as well as Astartes-uber-humans’ reasons and circumstances to eventually leave the paths of ‚enlightment’ and consequently turning to ‚chaos’ (as if there was nothing in between) it reveals their conditions, which actively lead to the (old) Imperium’s demise. In other words: It is easy to blame the gods that intervene with the Emperor’s plans, but ultimately it is the Emperor’s creations that fail his and their ideals.

 

Apparently good intentions (Thousand Sons), strive to perfect their self as the Emperor’s loyal products (Emperor’s Children) or a most deep belief in the Emperor’s and hence their own righteousness (Word Bearers) are examples for what brings the Imperium’s demise.

 

It’s this continuation of the moral dilemma presented by the start of the series: You’ve got a big chunk of humanity united by a god-like Emperor-figure and demi-gods lead armies to reunite humanity and kill evil aliens. Also, they all do it to spread scientific enlightenment and freedom and justice and so on. And then the Horus-Heresy-series is at its best when it focuses on a specific element in this struggle and shows why things spiral out of control or shows why things just continue getting worse. The franchise started with this idealistic image and all the franchise has been about is exposing all these flaws and problems that were right there beneath the surface but got ignored. And of course to even continue this franchise after ':cuss has hit the fan' and not speed things up so that you would get to the 'this is where good people win the day once and for all'-portion makes this franchise really interesting, I think.

 

So yes, I do not like certain legions (mostly loyalists), because they have a much smaller impact and importance for the overall narrative, which is the Horus Heresy.

Edited October 19, 2017 by okonomiyakimarine

[WingCommander]

 

Keep trying to cherry pick while ignoring context.

 

Actually, I think this is the way to enjoy the hobby most!

 

It always amuses me, how emotional people get due to their dislike of the official color scheme or background of some little plastic soldiers. In the end it comes down to yourself what you make of the official fluff and paint schemes. For example I neither like werewolfes in space nor Blood Angels Red (Mephiston Red IIRC). But Vikings are quite cool and a weathered, darkish red for BA can look ace. The same is true for Ultramarines. When you paint them in light blue the look indeed like smurfs and their flawlessness in 40k is truly annoying. I won't even start to talk about Guilliman's return and Primaris Marines, because at that point I might get too emotional as well...    But is a metallic deep blue one of the best colors you can put on power armor? Hell, yeah! And do I like how they are potrayed in "Know No Fear", especially the story of Aeonid Thiel? Definitely, I do! Indeed I liked it so much that I started to build up a little force of the XIII.

Edited October 19, 2017 by WingCommander

[Kinstryfe]

Honestly, I disliked Ultramarines back when all I knew about them was that they were eaten by Tyranids, but I've since turned around a lot, to the point of having a sizeable force queued up for painting. As they've progressed, they seem to be the embodiment of theoretical action and in some ways colder logic than even the Iron Hands. While each Legion was perfecting their style of warfare, the XIIIth was studying it and benefiting from their experience. When faced with unexpected occurrences, they collate all their info and come up with a probable course of action. In 40k they've come up dominate the Astartes not because they're the best, but because they're the most willing to learn from the best at everything. They've studied the speartip of the XVIth, the defense building of the VIIth, the defense destroying of the IVth, and every other tactic that the Legions excel at and put it all into one place for everyone to access. They saw their limitations as well as their strengths, and they used their skill at diplomacy and analysis to exceed their limitations. They became the proverbial Jack of all trades, and it was so successful that they're the template for how to operate a modern Chapter. Once I got that impression of them, they were a lot more appealing, especially in 30k, because I imagine they have chapters and companies specializing in almost every style of warfare their brother Legions practiced, and it gives me an excuse to have a bike army, and a Terminator army, and an assault army, and a standard battle company, all without having to paint them multiple colors like I've been doing for years. I no longer have to cross focus on all legions, I can simply benefit from their archetypes in blue.

 

Sorry if I'm having fun wrong, but I'm quite enjoying them.

[Qkhitai]

What I also tend to find is that my views on certain Legions can be changed by a specific book or novella, something that someone writes will make me think of them in a different light and I begin to feel a connection.

 

Quite so. My list of disliked legions would be a lot longer were it not for the Iron Hands in Fulgrim, Ultramarines in Unremembered Empire and World Eaters in Betrayer. Those books all totally changed my rather negative preconceptions of each.

[Ishagu]

I dislike the Alpha Legion as it makes no sense for an army made up on genetically engineered super soldiers who can crush skulls with their fists to operate by subterfuge and sabotage (And yes, I know they have human elements). They are inefficient and arguably cowardly.

 

I dislike the Iron Warriors because of their Primarch - I don't feel his outlook, opinions and actions were ever truly justified, and am disappointed in the Word Bearers because - whilst I like a great deal of things about them - they proved everyone who tried to censure them right when their religious fanaticism almost destroyed the new Empire of mankind.

 

The Emperor's children were fascinating but their fall made them boring, same as the SoH who I really liked when they were loyalists. Horus was a brilliant character who stole the show, but then devolved into a maniacal, moustache twirling villain after his fall.

 

I think Salamanders are quite uninspired despite the awesome look, same with the Iron Hands who became less likeable after Manus was killed.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Ishagu

[b1soul]

And yet Space Wolves aren't shoved down everyone's collective throats and have real, genuine setbacks.

GW heavily promotes SW, perhaps moreso than UM. SW are a very popular chapter.

 

Angron the newly ascended daemon, as opposed to "Angron who gets effortlessly backhanded by Guilliman Who Can Do No Wrong Ever".

Angron is smacking down Guilliman before his ascension

 

The stupidity with Curze in that arc is irrelevant.

Why? Because it doesn't help your argument?

 

Keep trying to cherry pick while ignoring context.

What context am I ignoring? Please do tell.

 

Citing examples is not cherry-picking. If I am guilty of cherry-picking, aren't you doing the same by focusing on negative examples? In fact, I would say my examples are more recent. Your complaints are based on older fluff written by Matt Ward. The UM are no longer portrayed as infallible Mary Sues...but there are still vocal detractors, such as yourself, dwelling in the past.

[Lucerne]

 

And yet Space Wolves aren't shoved down everyone's collective throats and have real, genuine setbacks.

GW heavily promotes SW, perhaps moreso than UM. SW are a very popular chapter.

 

Angron the newly ascended daemon, as opposed to "Angron who gets effortlessly backhanded by Guilliman Who Can Do No Wrong Ever".

Angron is smacking down Guilliman before his ascension

 

The stupidity with Curze in that arc is irrelevant.

Why? Because it doesn't help your argument?

 

Keep trying to cherry pick while ignoring context.

What context am I ignoring? Please do tell.

 

Citing examples is not cherry-picking. If I am guilty of cherry-picking, aren't you doing the same by focusing on negative examples? In fact, I would say my examples are more recent. Your complaints are based on older fluff written by Matt Ward. The UM are no longer portrayed as infallible Mary Sues...but there are still vocal detractors, such as yourself, dwelling in the past.

 

Complete and utter nonsense. Every other piece of generic heresy drek has Ultramarines on it, right down to box art and character focus- though they don't really have any actual characters beyond Thiel worth a damn which makes it 'Guest Starring Generic Ultra ##234234', while Space Wolves got, what, half of a novel duology about them in particular and starring in a board game...and every other appearance before and since has them being dragged through the mud and losing- in other words, actual consequences for their flaws and the situation of the Heresy instead of the plot bending over backwards to insulate them from their failings.

 

Show me the Ultramarines suffering a Wolf Cull or the mauling by the Alpha Legion that they needed to be rescued from- and then you can talk. And if you say Calth, I'm going to actually laugh given what an unabashed   that turned into.

 

Angron and Lorgar are failing to kill Guilliman before the ascension.

 

Because Curze in that entire section is a poorly written cartoon and Ultramarines killing a Primarch is absurd even by Ultrawank standards.

 

You've been given all the answers you deserve.

 

Your examples ignore the fact Ultramarines continually receive unearned victories, screen time, and advantages while having little actual interesting story to show for all the unearned spotlight. They are never ALLOWED to fall short, or get crushed, or just plain die the way the fanbase genuinely wishes they would at this point, just for the novelty value instead of "yet another inevitable, unearned Ultramarine victory".

 

The Ultras are the same worthless Sues written for the lowest common denominator of easily satisfied or guillible cash cows that they've always been.

 

 

Honestly, I disliked Ultramarines back when all I knew about them was that they were eaten by Tyranids, but I've since turned around a lot, to the point of having a sizeable force queued up for painting. As they've progressed, they seem to be the embodiment of theoretical action and in some ways colder logic than even the Iron Hands. While each Legion was perfecting their style of warfare, the XIIIth was studying it and benefiting from their experience. When faced with unexpected occurrences, they collate all their info and come up with a probable course of action. In 40k they've come up dominate the Astartes not because they're the best, but because they're the most willing to learn from the best at everything. They've studied the speartip of the XVIth, the defense building of the VIIth, the defense destroying of the IVth, and every other tactic that the Legions excel at and put it all into one place for everyone to access. They saw their limitations as well as their strengths, and they used their skill at diplomacy and analysis to exceed their limitations. They became the proverbial Jack of all trades, and it was so successful that they're the template for how to operate a modern Chapter. Once I got that impression of them, they were a lot more appealing, especially in 30k, because I imagine they have chapters and companies specializing in almost every style of warfare their brother Legions practiced, and it gives me an excuse to have a bike army, and a Terminator army, and an assault army, and a standard battle company, all without having to paint them multiple colors like I've been doing for years. I no longer have to cross focus on all legions, I can simply benefit from their archetypes in blue.

 

Sorry if I'm having fun wrong, but I'm quite enjoying them.

Jack of All Trades comes before "Master of None", not "Best At Everything and Protected From Consequences For Their Blatant Mistakes". They dominate the Astartes because their Primarch played politics while the Imperium burned and was willing to murder his own brothers to get his way. They're craven, preening cowards with good propaganda ruling over petty fiefdoms.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Caillum
swearing

[Caillum]

=][=

 

That's quite enough thank you. This is about ARTICULATING your reasons for not liking a Legion, not bashing them repeatedly in a negative manner. This thread has a lot of potential constructive discussion, but because of the aforementioned negativity, it is now on notice.

 

If the Frater cannot discuss this in a manner befitting the Rules of the Bolter & Chainsword, then the thread will be closed.

 

=][=

Edited October 19, 2017 by Caillum

[Kizzdougs]

Damn... did the Ultramarines murder your family? 

[Ishagu]

How boring would it be if everyone was constantly struggling? SOMEONE has to win well from time to time :-D

[Lucerne]

How boring would it be if everyone was constantly struggling? SOMEONE has to win well from time to time :-D

A faction with constant unearned victories and not even the illusion of crushing, total defeat being possible is not a faction worth readng about, and that actively undermines the premise of its setting.

 

The illusion of the Heresy should be that there's a chance this will go completely wrong. Any of the other Primarchs could fall if Horus did....or worse, be turned. Any Legion could be wiped out like the Shattered Legions. The loyalists could, should, will lose a lot of individual battles even if they eventually win the war. 30k should feel, tonally, like the death of hope and the end of the Imperium, because as far as the characters know? It is.

 

Take all that. All those components, all that potential for drama.

 

Now chuck it out the window, because no one even pretends to believe the writers will be allowed to have the Ultramarines fail or have their flaws bite them in a given novel. Be slaughtered, pointlessly, horribly, irrevocably. Screw up, and then the traitors unambiguously win. That just won't happen, and for a story about a civil war where the loyalists are ground down and then have their last stand on Terra, what's even the point if there's a plot armored blob of "WE AUTOMATICALLY WIN AND IT GOES FINE AND DANDY IF YOU'RE NEAR THE GUY IN BLUE ARMOR".

 

Give us an equivalent to a Wolf Cull story, or a Ravenspire. Give an Iron Cage. Hell, give us a few stray Ultramarines falling to the Warp because no Primarch was unaffected by the whispers of their gods in the lore, and their sons sure as hell are weaker than they are- and given how many renegade chapters are Ultramarine spawned, it's absurd to try and claim none at all went over to Horus during the heresy because they're such perfect, special, wonderful snowflakes.

 

I'll believe the Ultramarines are worth reading about when there's a novel where the ones we're following just all die messily. Extreme but at this point, the illusion of them being heroic is thoroughly broken, because a hero needs adversity. Struggle. Risk. There's nothing heroic about a lack of plausible danger or adversity.

 

And the most predictable plots of them all are the Ultramarines.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Ugolino

[helterskelter]

But the ultramarines do fail. Imperium secundus in itself is a failure of guillimans because instead of utilizing his monstrously sized legion to strike he defended his region of space until a more opportune time when the storm withdrew.

Post Heresy which is coming soon enough, the ultras fail to see off the Alpha legion, and gets his throat cut by fulgrim at thessela.

No one legion comes out of this Heresy with their hands clean. Not a one, they're all flawed, they all have their cover ups, secrets, internal wars/politicking.

 

No one "wins"

[Demus Ragnok]

I dislike the Ultramarines because they seem to have the ability to turn normal frater into frothing madmen.

[rendingon1+]

Why I don't like x Legions:

Some of Black Library publications.

Legion character, aims and "realism" or rather lack of it.

Rules.

Rabid, blind and intolerant fanboyism some peolpe represent. I become lmost allergic to certain legions thanks to community members who treat their little toys and stories with religious fanaticism or believe that playing/liking something makes them superior - a thing they always point out. (Not directed at anyone on this forum.)

[bluntblade]

I've found the Chaotic EC either underwhelming or superb, without much in-between. PoH now has me keen to read Primogenitor

[Brofist]

What I also tend to find is that my views on certain Legions can be changed by a specific book or novella, something that someone writes will make me think of them in a different light and I begin to feel a connection.

This is certainly true, but I wonder about who the market for those books is. If you don’t like Ultramarines you’re not going to read a book about them, if that makes any sense.