Articulate your reasons for not liking certain legions

[Brofist]

Deathguard: we have 8 companies, but one of the top 8 leaders has only met our primary twice, and has to prove himself the equal of random dudes...

That's one of my beefs with the way Pert is written. On one hand he's supposed to be a logistical genius. On the other hand he forgets about entire expedition fleets. If they were trying to make him out as an insane character it could work, but it's clearly inconsistent writing.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Alpha Legion and Word Bearers.

 

AL because they come across as really creepy and somewhat mentally deranged... WB for starting the whoie heresy - they are despicable .

[b1soul]

Alpha has become every mediocre BL writer's go-to plot device

[Daddywarcrimes]

Salamanders are the worst.  They like to claim that they're the noble ones looking out for the good guys, but their response to problems is generally the most arbitrary and destructive one, namely screaming "screw it, burn em!".  Only the Dark Angels and Death Guard are more arbitrarily destructive.  The World Eaters might kill everyone, but they won't do it in a way that leaves a planet or a city uninhabitable once you've hosed off all the gore.

 

Also, I tend to find the stuff written about them extremely dull and tedious.  Maybe I just don't like Nick Kyme's writing style.

[bluntblade]

Actually, the Salamanders chose their most destructive weaponry so that it wouldn't leave territory uninhabitable for generations, unlike Dreadwing and Death Guard weaponry.

 

You're also being really unfair on the DA; we've seen the Dreadwing unleashed exactly once in the fluff so far.

[Daddywarcrimes]

Actually, the Salamanders chose their most destructive weaponry so that it wouldn't leave territory uninhabitable for generations, unlike Dreadwing and Death Guard weaponry.

 

You're also being really unfair on the DA; we've seen the Dreadwing unleashed exactly once in the fluff so far.

 

It's happened once in a Black Library novel, but let's not forget that the pre-Caliban Dark Angels have been written about once when they gunned down the last of the Thunder Warriors, but I'll eat a silk tophat if Angelus isn't full of examples of them reducing xenos-infested worlds to irradiated slag with horrific weapons from the Dark Age of Technology.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The weapons from the dark age were extremely powerful .

[rendingon1+]

 

Actually, the Salamanders chose their most destructive weaponry so that it wouldn't leave territory uninhabitable for generations, unlike Dreadwing and Death Guard weaponry.

 

You're also being really unfair on the DA; we've seen the Dreadwing unleashed exactly once in the fluff so far.

 

It's happened once in a Black Library novel, but let's not forget that the pre-Caliban Dark Angels have been written about once when they gunned down the last of the Thunder Warriors, but I'll eat a silk tophat if Angelus isn't full of examples of them reducing xenos-infested worlds to irradiated slag with horrific weapons from the Dark Age of Technology.

 

I hope your words are prophetic! :)

 

And in truth yes, at least Farith Redloss is the guy who loves to see things being destroyed. He admits it himself that bringing death and destruction is exhilarting (or something like that), to the point where he makes no distinction between void warfare and close combat. As long as things burn (For the Emperor of course) he's a happy little Voted Lieutnant of the Dreadwing.

Personally I have no problem with that, in fact it makes him one of my favorite DA's ever :p

[ProsperoStands]

Space Wolves.

 

Obviously Prospero, but more so the fact that they were blatant hypocrites that were too eager to "rawr smash" the Thousand Sons then stop and think for more then a few moments. Also, they refused the surrender of the civilian's of Prospero and slaughtered every man women and child.

 

Word Bearers

 

Well, they ruined it for everyone didn't they? Do not get me wrong, they make fantastic bad guys on paper but once the Heresy kicks off they just remind me of Saturday morning cartoon bad guys in how bad they are at their jobs.

[Nova_Dew]

For me it's the Ultramarines because there flaw isn't played on, won't lie Unremembered Empire kinda made me like Roboat a bit,

(come on they are traitors in all but name (see's things are going bad and then makes an empire of his own and puts someone else in charge to take the fall if the Imperium survives)) but i guess being the victor means you get to paint yourself the good guy.

 

World Eaters mainly for how the other primarchs see Angry-ron as nothing but rage when he is being slowly killed and driven insane by the nails but still manages to attempt a conversation and plan things (to go through that much pain and still being able to think takes some mental fortitude) and has been shown to offer duels to survivors, i think it was live and become a part of the Imperium or duel me and either die or win freedom, and then honouring those that he defeated for their courage if not skill.

 

So it's mostly fluff wise i don't like legions and then it's because of a lack of a story that could add so much to them for me (really hope to see the UM one get picked up in 40K).

 

But the WE one kinda did get used when Magnus saved Angry-ron at a price

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Space Pups I have mixed feelings but it is mostly because of their fifth edition codex and the type of people that played it back then.

[Baluc]

Space Wolves.

 

Obviously Prospero, but more so the fact that they were blatant hypocrites that were too eager to "rawr smash" the Thousand Sons then stop and think for more then a few moments. Also, they refused the surrender of the civilian's of Prospero and slaughtered every man women and child.

 

Word Bearers

 

Well, they ruined it for everyone didn't they? Do not get me wrong, they make fantastic bad guys on paper but once the Heresy kicks off they just remind me of Saturday morning cartoon bad guys in how bad they are at their jobs.

Having just finished reading Inferno again, this is untrue. Before the battle the civilian ships were merely captured and interrogated. On the ground they ignored the civilians advancing past them, and only engaging armed groups, Leman Russ was there for Magnus. Up to and until the TS started going boom in the streets, at which point it was an exterminatus.

 

As to Rune Priest, Nikea was specifically about the Librarius program, and psykers trained using it. I have a few theories about why this was but to me it basically boils down the the TS thinking that it was a science, and it clearly isn't. But, the tragedy of Prospero was that their demise was already certain they had been sold to Tzeentch the day they were re-united with Magnus, and he was always coming for his toys. The burning of Prospero isn't the tragedy its the final 3 pages of a play.

 

Personally the only legion I can't square myself with is the Word Bearers, mostly because I'm a deeply sceptical person and when confronted by the primordial truth my natural reaction wouldn't be to worship it. The Word bearers seemed to lack any sort of self-confidence, and cover this with zeal, and energy in the primacy of someone other than themselves. 

[Fire Golem]

There's 2 ways of looking at it really. For example, I dislike a lot of the traitor legions, but in a good way. They're the villains and aren't necessarily meant to be liked (there are a few likable characters though and the well written ones you can understand why they turned but they're still the bad guys). Whereas I dislike the Salamanders because they haven't been written well. There's an in universe dislike which isn't necessarily a bad thing, and there's a real life dislike due to bad writing etc.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

Space Wolves.

 

Obviously Prospero, but more so the fact that they were blatant hypocrites that were too eager to "rawr smash" the Thousand Sons then stop and think for more then a few moments. Also, they refused the surrender of the civilian's of Prospero and slaughtered every man women and child.

 

Word Bearers

 

Well, they ruined it for everyone didn't they? Do not get me wrong, they make fantastic bad guys on paper but once the Heresy kicks off they just remind me of Saturday morning cartoon bad guys in how bad they are at their jobs.

Having just finished reading Inferno again, this is untrue. Before the battle the civilian ships were merely captured and interrogated. On the ground they ignored the civilians advancing past them, and only engaging armed groups, Leman Russ was there for Magnus. Up to and until the TS started going boom in the streets, at which point it was an exterminatus.

 

As to Rune Priest, Nikea was specifically about the Librarius program, and psykers trained using it. I have a few theories about why this was but to me it basically boils down the the TS thinking that it was a science, and it clearly isn't. But, the tragedy of Prospero was that their demise was already certain they had been sold to Tzeentch the day they were re-united with Magnus, and he was always coming for his toys. The burning of Prospero isn't the tragedy its the final 3 pages of a play.

 

Personally the only legion I can't square myself with is the Word Bearers, mostly because I'm a deeply sceptical person and when confronted by the primordial truth my natural reaction wouldn't be to worship it. The Word bearers seemed to lack any sort of self-confidence, and cover this with zeal, and energy in the primacy of someone other than themselves. 

 

 

Strangely I find it hard to believe you, but then again, i don't have the Inferno book so I'll take your word for it that the Space Wolves weren't COMPLETELY trigger happy at Prospero. Until now, I also thought that the Wolves started destroying EVERYTHING from the moment Russ' warning time was passed.

 

As always, the main detraction or cry of hypocrisy against the Wolves will always be the council of Nikae, and why the Wolves were so vehement in reprimanding the Thousand Sons and banning the Librarius program when they themselves used Librarians in all but name. this is another topic for another thread and has been discussed to death but even I as a wolf player and fan find hard to justify against destractors. Nevertheless, the reactions of Russ post prospero and gradual transformation of the Wolves over the next 10,000 years from cold blooded killers to cold blooded protectors still make me love the wolves.

 

Back to OP, my first reaction would be Word Bearers but nowadays, i'm more inclined to think that if the Emperor wasn't such a jerk, none of them, not even Lorgar and the Word Bearers, would have been corrupted in the first place. Heck, even the whole Thousand Sons debacle could have been nipped in the bud early but noooooooooo..... the Emperor had to be such a secretive bastard, trusting his golden bananas and Malcador more than the Primarchs which were suppose to control his military power.

 

But to avoid going off topic, I think I'll go still go with Word Bearers. They were the ones who started the heresy and while I can blame the Emperor for being a dick, ultimately most of them CHOSE the path they did. Even Argel Tal, one of the most sane and level headed of them, actually chose to share his body with a daemon and KNOWINGLY committed attrocities. If I use him as an example, he HAD a choice. He chose the path of the chaos knowingly along with most of his legion, to the point where there is no such thing as a LOYALIST word bearer.

 

Ah Argel Tal. rest in hell you poor bastard.

[Laughingman]

Night lords: If they are truly Nostraman hive gangers made into super soldiers they should be obsessed with stealing and acquiring wealth above all else. The vast majority of modern criminals are motivated by the fast acquisition of wealth, why should one's given post-human bodies be any different?

[b1soul]

Is it confirmed that the Ist Legion helps to "retire" the Thunder Warriors?

[Dantay VI]

Space Wolves.

 

Obviously Prospero, but more so the fact that they were blatant hypocrites that were too eager to "rawr smash" the Thousand Sons then stop and think for more then a few moments. Also, they refused the surrender of the civilian's of Prospero and slaughtered every man women and child.

 

Word Bearers

 

Well, they ruined it for everyone didn't they? Do not get me wrong, they make fantastic bad guys on paper but once the Heresy kicks off they just remind me of Saturday morning cartoon bad guys in how bad they are at their jobs.

 

Aren't you thinking of the Sons of Horus who started killing the civilian population and dragging away all the psykers they found for unknown reasons (at the time?)

[Kasper_Hawser]

In a way I pity the Word Bearers, in terms of fluff they were made cool by being the REAL FIRST HERETICS, but subsequently, due to GW somehow not wanting to promote chaos undivided as part of their line (aside from Black Legion fluff), they have not received a lot of limelight in the last 10K years.

 

@ Laughingman - I thought there were a few legions involved in retiring the Thunderwarriors, including the World Eaters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but was there a World Eater called Endryd Haar who supposedly was in that last battle to subdue the Thunderwarriors?

[bluntblade]

Both Dantay and Kasper are right

[Dantay VI]

Both Valdor and Russ declared the death of everyone on Prospero, at the point that the Thousand Sons powers went out of control around the time of the Impossible battle, due to the fact that they feared that all Prosperines may be corrupted and that the world needed to die.

 

Prior to that point the Wolves only killed anyone who carried a weapon against them and did not kill everyone indiscriminately

 

The Sons of Horus were indiscriminately killing and taking psyker prisoners from the moment they landed as part of the reserve force. 

 

Inferno does state that some Prosperines were killed but this was down to being caught in cross fires or were trampled as the civilians fled.

 

So Spireguard, thousand sone et al, had a hand in the death of the Prosperines.

 

Thousand Sons for their Stupidity and hubris which cost the Imperium so much and effectively handed Horus the advantage from the start of the Heresy

[b1soul]

Valdor would have preferred to take Magnus alive up till the very end

 

Russ, to some degree, enjoyed the Razing of Prospero, even if at the beginning he was hoping for a peaceful resolution.

 

See Wraight's short story Magisterium.

[Dantay VI]

Will do, if you send it to me :)

 

Until then I am sticking to what Inferno tells us about the incident

[Baluc]

Valdor would have preferred to take Magnus alive up till the very end

 

Russ, to some degree, enjoyed the Razing of Prospero, even if at the beginning he was hoping for a peaceful resolution.

 

See Wraight's short story Magisterium.

 

Yeah I read Magisterium, I agree with both those assertions from Valdor's pov. Valdor would have preferred taking Magnus in alive, and Russ did appear to be enjoying himself. How much was of that was Russ putting on the Russ Persona we can't know.

 

What I took from Magisterium was that Valdor generally had a distastes for the Primarchs behaving like they were human. I would have to agree with Valdor pov the Primarchs are not human, and things would have been much better of it they could have accepted that they had a place in the universe because the Emperor willed them to, rather than that they were also part of humanity. Instead the Great Crusade filled them with a monstrous pride, and self satisfaction, which lead all 18 into mental loops they couldn't escape. 

[slitth]

I do not like the Word Bearers.

 

I do not mind that they were the first to turn traitor.

But to me they act more like brain-dead followers and not like the religions fanatics they are supposed to be.

The hole legion just turn from the Emperor to chaos far too easy for my taste.

Their pilgrimage felt like a search for the next remotely godlike thing to pray to, instead of looking of the true gods.

[Scribe]

 

Their pilgrimage felt like a search for the next remotely godlike thing to pray to, instead of looking of the true gods.

 

In what fathomable way is that true?

 

You have a group of entities, which are spawned by/caused (chicken or egg) the fall of the last great galactic race. You have a group of entities which are the unarguable Big Bad of 30K, if not the entire setting, and you have a pilgrimage which explores not just the fact that these entities exist, and the back story of the fall of the Eldar, AND the genesis of the Emperor/Primarchs, and you boil that down to 'next remotely godlike thing'.

 

There are no truer Gods in 30K/40K, than Chaos. This is not debatable. 

 

As to this root topic.

 

I dont hate Legions, I hate the meme versions of Legions fans. :p