Articulate your reasons for not liking certain legions

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

Hmm, lets see, which legions do I not like? I think I can select 3 but I will note that that there are more that I feel indifference for. I will list them in order of most disliked to least.

 

1. Word Bearers, I just have a terrible aversion to fanatical worship of anything, be it religion or ideology. They are a group I cannot relate to in any way and personally cannot stand them.

 

2. Space Wolves, their hypocrisy is probably the biggest reason I don't like them but to make matters worse they are defined by being heavily influenced by movie/tvland Norse Culture.

 

3. World Eaters, it is the nails. I actually like Khârn's portrayal pre-nails... He is one of several characters destroyed by their Primarchs.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Legionaire of the VIIth

[Ramza]

My least favourite legions would be - 

 

1. Imperial Fists, they're just so good goody and think their poop doesn't stink and you know that if you sat in a room with Dorn he would bore you to death. Also, I have seen too many people butcher the yellow colour scheme and it puts me right off. Having said that, a well painted Imperial Fist army looks second to none on the tabletop, unfortunately I don't see many.

 

2. World Eaters, I hate space Spartacus. He's by far my least favorite Primarch. Khârn is awesome but he's not enough to make me like this legion.

 

 

Those are the Legions I dislike the most. Notable mentions of Legions that make me yawn are-

 

Salamanders - Soooo vanilla, good guys in space. Nothing really interesting about these guys. Cool modelling opportunities though. 

White Scars - Space Mongols......Maybe if they were riding cybernetic horses they would be so silly to the point of being interesting. 

Alpha Legion - we get it, you're sneaky, too bad this is a war and you're supposed to be warriors, not spooks. Hail Hydra!

Custodes - I really don't get why everyone gets hard over these guys. They're basically the grey knights of 30k minus the psychic powers. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Ramza

[Kasper_Hawser]

My least favourite legions would be - 

 

1. Imperial Fists, they're just so good goody and think their poop doesn't stink and you know that if you sat in a room with Dorn he would bore you to death. Also, I have seen too many people butcher the yellow colour scheme and it puts me right off. Having said that, a well painted Imperial Fist army looks second to none on the tabletop, unfortunately I don't see many.

 

2. World Eaters, I hate space Spartacus. He's by far my least favorite Primarch. Khârn is awesome but he's not enough to make me like this legion.

 

 

Those are the Legions I dislike the most. Notable mentions of Legions that make me yawn are-

 

Salamanders - Soooo vanilla, good guys in space. Nothing really interesting about these guys. Cool modelling opportunities though. 

White Scars - Space Mongols......Maybe if they were riding cybernetic horses they would be so silly to the point of being interesting. 

Alpha Legion - we get it, you're sneaky, too bad this is a war and you're supposed to be warriors, not spooks. Hail Hydra!

Custodes - I really don't get why everyone gets hard over these guys. They're basically the grey knights of 30k minus the psychic powers. 

 

Hit the nail on the head for the most part though I would debate about you about the Imperial Fists. They may be goody goody on the surface but they just did their job, no more no less and expected nothing of it. Bear in mind, this is the legion famous for the "pain glove", aka self flagellation for every perceived fault, even if it is minor by Legion standards.

 

Salamanders - 100% agree with you.. But mainly I damn Nick Kyme for shoddy storylines and lack of decent characters

White Scars - Read Scars and Path to Heaven. You'll change your perspective 

 

The Scars were nearly torn apart by their Pro Horus faction. They're anything but generic space mongolians. Heck, the Khan still has guards in terminator armour.

 

 

Alpha Legion - 100% agree with you.

Custodes - 100% agree with you. Damn golden bananas.

[StruManChu]

Behold, I am so late to this discussion.

 

Let me preface this by saying that the character of a Legion definitely colours how I perceive them and how I would begin to form the idea of an army of them. I find the novels are a great way to inspire me in this regard, so most of my information on the Legions has come from these, rather than the Black Books from FW. I'm not likely to buy the Black Books unless I'm already keen on doing an army,  because they're expensive.

 

Legions I dislike, and so will never collect an army of, because being able to self-insert is an important hobby element for me - 

 

III - Emperor's Children

 

The idea of individual/personal glory at the expense of the good of the many is one I have always disliked, and no Legion exemplifies this more than the Third, in the novels at least. There are obvious exceptions to this rule (Tarvitz, Demeter, and others), but they are far outweighed by the more selfish and self-seeking/promoting legionnaires. Don't like them at all, and can't bring myself to collect them, even though they have some of the nicest minis to date.

 

XV - Thousand Sons

 

It's one thing to choose to do something dumb, it's another to blindly follow someone else's dumb decision and think you'll be ok because you're special. This is the essence of the hubris of the 1KSons. Nikaea should have been a wake-up call, not just for Magnus but for the entire legion, especially following the censure of Lorgar at Monarchia for his own disobedience. However, they decided to ignore it. They decided they knew better. They could have changed, but they took the easier road, and they suffered for it. Knowledge isn't the same as wisdom. Thumbs down, 1KSons.

 

XVII - Word Bearers

 

'But muh feeeeelings!'... Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the treatment that our beloved AD-B gave them in both First Heretic and Betrayer, but I'll never collect them. I can't get past the fact that they were too proud to put their hands up and admit they'd done it wrong, cop it on the chin and move on. Instead, they go on a 50 year quest to plant seeds of dissent and rebellion before kicking off the Heresy proper and RUINING. EVERYTHING. 

 

Also, Erebus is a whole big bag of words I'd get in trouble for posting on a minor-friendly forum. Dude needs to get his comeuppance.

 

 

 

Legions I feel kinda meh about and so likely won't ever collect -

 

Salamanders

Raven Guard

 

I don't think I've ever really liked anything Kyme's written, and the last Space Marine-based stuff I liked from Gav Thorpe was the very divisive Angels of Darkness, which must be at least 15 years old by now. Being that these two are the main writers for the Salamanders and Raven Guard respectively, I don't hold out much hope. It's a shame, because I think in the right hands (probably John French for the Salamanders and Chris Wraight for the Raven Guard, off the top of my head) they could both be very characterful and cool, but they reek of the standard 40K BL two dimensional stuff here... 'Fire is everything' and 'Sneaky is everything' do not inspire me to buy models. If someone could do for them what Abnett did for the Space Wolves (Vlka Fenryka! Amazing!) in Prospero Burns, everything would be better.

 

That's me. Feel free to challenge and/or disagree, and I'll try to justify my prejudices.

[Droz_64]

I don't get why everyone loves to circlejerk the Custodes. Like okay, the Emperor's bodyguards got an army. Cool. They're becoming the Grey Knights, w/out Psykers. They get the cool gear, cool armor, cool weapons, etc. They shouldn't be a full army imo. Maybe one or two squads, as an allied detachment, but I feel they're out of place as an army.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Behold, I am so late to this discussion.

 

Let me preface this by saying that the character of a Legion definitely colours how I perceive them and how I would begin to form the idea of an army of them. I find the novels are a great way to inspire me in this regard, so most of my information on the Legions has come from these, rather than the Black Books from FW. I'm not likely to buy the Black Books unless I'm already keen on doing an army,  because they're expensive.

 

Legions I dislike, and so will never collect an army of, because being able to self-insert is an important hobby element for me - 

 

III - Emperor's Children

 

The idea of individual/personal glory at the expense of the good of the many is one I have always disliked, and no Legion exemplifies this more than the Third, in the novels at least. There are obvious exceptions to this rule (Tarvitz, Demeter, and others), but they are far outweighed by the more selfish and self-seeking/promoting legionnaires. Don't like them at all, and can't bring myself to collect them, even though they have some of the nicest minis to date.

 

XV - Thousand Sons

 

It's one thing to choose to do something dumb, it's another to blindly follow someone else's dumb decision and think you'll be ok because you're special. This is the essence of the hubris of the 1KSons. Nikaea should have been a wake-up call, not just for Magnus but for the entire legion, especially following the censure of Lorgar at Monarchia for his own disobedience. However, they decided to ignore it. They decided they knew better. They could have changed, but they took the easier road, and they suffered for it. Knowledge isn't the same as wisdom. Thumbs down, 1KSons.

 

XVII - Word Bearers

 

'But muh feeeeelings!'... Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the treatment that our beloved AD-B gave them in both First Heretic and Betrayer, but I'll never collect them. I can't get past the fact that they were too proud to put their hands up and admit they'd done it wrong, cop it on the chin and move on. Instead, they go on a 50 year quest to plant seeds of dissent and rebellion before kicking off the Heresy proper and RUINING. EVERYTHING. 

 

Also, Erebus is a whole big bag of words I'd get in trouble for posting on a minor-friendly forum. Dude needs to get his comeuppance.

 

 

 

Legions I feel kinda meh about and so likely won't ever collect -

 

Salamanders

Raven Guard

 

I don't think I've ever really liked anything Kyme's written, and the last Space Marine-based stuff I liked from Gav Thorpe was the very divisive Angels of Darkness, which must be at least 15 years old by now. Being that these two are the main writers for the Salamanders and Raven Guard respectively, I don't hold out much hope. It's a shame, because I think in the right hands (probably John French for the Salamanders and Chris Wraight for the Raven Guard, off the top of my head) they could both be very characterful and cool, but they reek of the standard 40K BL two dimensional stuff here... 'Fire is everything' and 'Sneaky is everything' do not inspire me to buy models. If someone could do for them what Abnett did for the Space Wolves (Vlka Fenryka! Amazing!) in Prospero Burns, everything would be better.

 

That's me. Feel free to challenge and/or disagree, and I'll try to justify my prejudices.

 

Won't challenge you for the most part. and yeah, sad to say, like the Dark Angels, the Raven Guard have been stuck with Gav Thorpe for awhile. Deliverance was very meh and a big bunch of convoluting bull using Alpha Legion as an excuse to screw up the Raven Guard. And I heard Angels of Caliban was a bunch of convoluted bull as well. Ah well.....

 

..... that being said, a lot of the Raven Guard stuff in the black books is actually quite cool, even the part where the older part of the legion was basically exiled or separated from rest of the Legion post Corax due to being like the Night Lords before he came along. At least Corax didn't force them to conform to his ideals, or kill them off. And they're not just an army of ninjas, they can do frontal assault too, it's just not that forte. And sadly, the worst case of frontal assault they did was under the command of Horus, which resulted in many dead Raven Guard when Corrax had devised a better way to get the enemy out of the walls but was mocked by Perturabo and Horus. It's just that, like the Dark Angels, their related novels have not portrayed them very fairly or evenly as what we know from reputation.

 

As for Salamanders, poor guys have literally NO OTHER AUTHOR other than Kyme. Everyone else who mentions the Salamanders in passing only say what we already know, that the Salamanders are bros with everyone except Ultramarines for some weird reason. As a result, we don't have any good or notable Salamanders characters to date, except for maybe one guy in Scars who was part of the Shattered Legions that met up with some White Scars. And although i liked him, he was a bit one dimensional and Marty Stu. Can't remember his name.

 

Totally agree with the rest, although the Emperor's Children were quite bros with everyone despite their perfection & glory obsession, so I liked them to the point their pretty primarch started to wield a certain fabulous sword.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

..... that being said, a lot of the Raven Guard stuff in the black books is actually quite cool, even the part where the older part of the legion was basically exiled or separated from rest of the Legion post Corax due to being like the Night Lords before he came along. At least Corax didn't force them to conform to his ideals, or kill them off. And they're not just an army of ninjas, they can do frontal assault too, it's just not that forte. And sadly, the worst case of frontal assault they did was under the command of Horus, which resulted in many dead Raven Guard when Corrax had devised a better way to get the enemy out of the walls but was mocked by Perturabo and Horus. It's just that, like the Dark Angels, their related novels have not portrayed them very fairly or evenly as what we know from reputation.

 

 

 

Have to weigh in defence of the pre-Corax XIX here. They were nowhere near the Night Lords level of evil, they were more akin to the IHs. Cold, efficient brutality (maybe with a bit of SoH flair for the grand gesture and decapitation strike), rather than the mad sadism and terror of the NLs (even before Nostramo sent them even crazier). Corax just didn't like them.

 

As for Gate 42, actually it was only Perturabo who mocked Corax for wanting to do something else, Horus merely overruled his subordinate (and we don't really have enough info to say who was right, only that Horus' plan worked, the RG took noteworthy losses carrying out said plan, and Corax wasn't happy about it).

[StruManChu]

Won't challenge you for the most part. and yeah, sad to say, like the Dark Angels, the Raven Guard have been stuck with Gav Thorpe for awhile. Deliverance was very meh and a big bunch of convoluting bull using Alpha Legion as an excuse to screw up the Raven Guard. And I heard Angels of Caliban was a bunch of convoluted bull as well. Ah well.....

 

..... that being said, a lot of the Raven Guard stuff in the black books is actually quite cool, even the part where the older part of the legion was basically exiled or separated from rest of the Legion post Corax due to being like the Night Lords before he came along. At least Corax didn't force them to conform to his ideals, or kill them off. And they're not just an army of ninjas, they can do frontal assault too, it's just not that forte. And sadly, the worst case of frontal assault they did was under the command of Horus, which resulted in many dead Raven Guard when Corrax had devised a better way to get the enemy out of the walls but was mocked by Perturabo and Horus. It's just that, like the Dark Angels, their related novels have not portrayed them very fairly or evenly as what we know from reputation.

 

I'd completely forgotten about the RG stuff in the Black Books, and you're right. It does add a bunch but, for me at least, it's just not enough to swing them back into a 'That's a really cool idea for a playable army' territory. Deliverance is one of I think four HH novels I haven't re-read (Abyss, Pythos and Deathfire being the other three) simply because it's so moustache-twirly AL, and I can't stand the human-perspective guy from the Imperial Army who gets them off Isstvan V. 

 

I also think the Dark Angels have definitely seen some benefit from firstly AD-B's contributions to the Thramas Crusade stories, which were amazing, and also the Imperium Secondus arc where we see them, and particularly the Lion, working uncomfortably closely with the BA and UM. It'll be interesting to see where they end up following Angels of Caliban, but I don't hold out a lot of hope.

Edited January 3, 2018 by StruManChu

[rendingon1+]

I also think the Dark Angels have definitely seen some benefit from firstly AD-B's contributions to the Thramas Crusade stories, which were amazing, and also the Imperium Secondus arc where we see them, and particularly the Lion, working uncomfortably closely with the BA and UM. It'll be interesting to see where they end up following Angels of Caliban, but I don't hold out a lot of hope.

 

I only recall Savage Weapons (short) and you don't get that much DA stuff there. Are there any other stories?

[StruManChu]

Prince of Crows had a bit, as well as The Long Night that follows it. Obviously it's all pretty Night Lords centric, but even the scraps from the table are worth it.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Personally I’ve always liked RG due to their tragic nature including Corax.

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

I know this is a bit late but I finally had the time to form a proper response to this and my interpretation of Inferno.

 

Both Valdor and Russ declared the death of everyone on Prospero, at the point that the Thousand Sons powers went out of control around the time of the Impossible battle, due to the fact that they feared that all Prosperines may be corrupted and that the world needed to die.

 

Prior to that point the Wolves only killed anyone who carried a weapon against them and did not kill everyone indiscriminately

 

The Sons of Horus were indiscriminately killing and taking psyker prisoners from the moment they landed as part of the reserve force. 

 

Inferno does state that some Prosperines were killed but this was down to being caught in cross fires or were trampled as the civilians fled.

 

So Spireguard, thousand sone et al, had a hand in the death of the Prosperines.

 

Thousand Sons for their Stupidity and hubris which cost the Imperium so much and effectively handed Horus the advantage from the start of the Heresy

Hmmm, I must have imagine this part of Inferno on page 38:

 

"Leman Russ commanded his vessels to apply the utmost sanction to Prospero; to salt the earth of the damned world with the most fell toxins and devastating explosives available to them, to leave no stone upon stone and grant a swift death to its inhabitants."

 

Doesn't sound like he was taking anyone on the planet into consideration when he let his rage dictate the course of history as stated on page 35:

 

"Incensed that Magnus would offer such an insult to his brother, Russ gave the word and unleashed the firepower of the assembled Censer Host's Fleet against the helpless planet."

 

If Tizca didn't have the Kine Shield (which would have been the case if Magnus had his way) then the entire population would have been devastated in the first planetary bombardment which lasted an hour destroying everything above ground.

 

If Russ really was as benevolent as some claim why didn't he listen to Valdor but instead let his rage dictate things? Russ is not innocent in this anymore than Magnus. From my interpretation of the events in Inferno he (Russ) wanted to kill them when he was given an excuse. No Emissary was sent down to make contact and try and figure out what was going on (it wasn't like the whole situation was normal and nothing was amiss) or any other means used outside of normal communications, instead as soon as the time ran out he tried to kill the entire planet as per these two quotes:

 

Page 25: "Before leaving Beta-Garmon, a quantity of phosphex equal to that consumed commonly by a full system-wide life purge campaign was transferred to the Space Wolves ships, along with a variety of Exterminatus grade capital ship munitions, including several bio-alchemical warheads of a classification previously deemed too dangerous to be used within the borders of the Imperium."

 

And Page 35: "Yet, there was no answer. The fleet waited as Valdor entreated for further time with Russ on behalf of the accused Primarch to await reply, but Russ' fury steadily grew..."

 

 

I'll also I think that these quotes should be taken into consideration of Russ' overall desires for Prospero:

 

Page 25: "...all note in some way the concern of the Custodes Captain-General when faced with the belligerence, and in some cases outright blood-lust, evinced by many of the troops under Leman Russ' command. Many also note that several of the strategic planning sessions that followed saw the dismissal of the higher command staff as the two leaders of the Censure Host continued a private disagreement regarding the intent of the fleet."

 

And at the end of that same paragraph: "Tellingly, those of the Remembrancer Order who had accompanied Valdor were dismissed and returned to Terra under Russ' orders long before the fleet departed on the final leg of its journey."

 

None of this seems to say to me that Russ was as benevolent as some want to make him out to be and from my interpretation that he might have been looking for any reason to pull the trigger that Horus gave him permission to pull (unbeknownst to Russ). Russ seems, according to my interpretation of Inferno, more than willing to let himself be fooled so that he could destroy the Thousand Sons and the dismissal of those who question it (within his power, he couldn't dismiss Valdor obviously) seems to support more of a desire to come to blows then to talk it out.

 

Don't get me wrong I hate Magnus, even if I like the Thousand Sons. The root of the Thousand Sons problem is two fold, most important is Tzeench's manipulations, secondary is the folly of Magnus and his misleading of his sons into believing that the warp was not to be feared as much as it should have been. His sons are victims in this by choosing to believe in their Primarch, which they are not the only ones to fall prey to this short coming. In someways I see Russ and Magnus as kindred spirits both to headstrong to acknowledge they might be wrong until it is too late and more than willing to delude themselves into believing what they want to believe to justify their own desires.

 

In the end we like what we like because they resonate with us in some way and don't like things because of our own personal biases or interpretations of things through our own egos. Personally I find it great that this is the case as a collective way of thinking is boring and leads to stagnation.

 

Edited for some noticed grammar mistakes and finishing an incomplete thought.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Legionnaire of the VIIth

[Dantay VI]

In some ways I agree, But in defence of Russ, if he really wanted Tizca (which survived the bombing) deader than dead, why were the 13th, & 7th company held back in reserve? These are his deathsworn/ wulfen/ destroyer companies.

 

They did slaughter the rest of the planet, although I suspect Russ would have some idea that Tizca would be shielded considering the information offered up by the Thousand Son from the Crusader host

 

In Tizca, it was noted that the Wolves did not indiscriminately kill the populace, but slew those bearing weapons against them was more the point I was trying to make. Everyone goes woe the Prosperines, the big bad furries killed them all while the noble SPireguard and Sons tried to defend them. Pffft... The Prosperines were betrayed on all sides and got caught in the cross-fire as innocents often do. There was no deliberate act by the Wolves to kill the civilian s at the outset of trying to take Tizca.

 

Contact was not possible because Magnus was suspected of completely blocking both normal and esoteric forms of communication, (where Russ was trying to give him a last chance to give himself up and spare everyone the war to come). In the end Russ his rag and probably decided sending an emissary to their death wasn't worth it.

 

Magnus could have avoided much of what had happened if he had come forward right at the start instead of moping around in his glass tower.... Either by talking to Russ and Valdor by surrendering himself to Valdor for censure or being present at the beginning so the duel could have gone off at the start, and then used warp shenanigans to take his legion away. Rather he hid from what he had done, let his sons and Prospero reap the whirlwind of his inactions and bad choices, then spends 10K years blaming everyone but himself for what happened.

 

Yeah Russ was a bit hardcore at times, but Magnus and his legion were...... beyond redemption at the end.

At least once Russ knew he had been wrong admitted as such, decided to change and actually tried to make things right/ make a difference.

 

Thats why I dislike 

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

My interpretation was always about Russ prioritizing the objectives of the sanction after bombardment had failed. Of the utmost importance was Magnus, secondary the destruction of the Thousand Sons, and tertiary the death of the world to make sure all the taint was eradicated. Once Magnus has been dealt with through death or detainment to be taken before the Emperor the death of the world and all on it would follow. When Magnus didn't surrender himself and instead decided to condemn his entire Legion and planet for his own stupidity, Russ decided to attempt to kill the world and all on it and forgo attempts at apprehension. For some reason I always took it that once Magus was in their custody Russ would have enacted Exterminatus on the world as they left anyway thus doing away with any threat the world posed (after all it was a tainted world of Sorcerers in his mind and the orders enabled this action).

 

Failing to kill the world do to the kine shield I interpret the situation to be one in which Russ focused on priorities in order of importance. Those priories being to locate and deal with Magnus, then to neutralize any Thousand Sons left alive. Once that was done the death of the remaining population could easily be dealt with without having to spread out his forces and risk unneeded losses on his end. The people were of little threat to him on their own and could easily be dealt with once the real threats were neutralized.

 

Of course I'm not trying to get you to like the Thousand Sons, I'm not trying to turn you against your like of the Space Wolves, just voicing my interpretation of the story and characters. Also I would like to note that I try not to base my like or dislike on an entire Legion solely on the basis of the Primarchs, if I did I wouldn't like the Thousand Sons, actually there would be almost no Legion I would like as I'm not really a fan of the Primarchs. For me Ahriman is far more of an impactful character on my like of the Thousand Sons, the fact that in many of the books he questions Magnus but allows his desire to believe in him override the warnings going off in his head; that he wants to be loyal to the Imperium and that he seeks redemption for himself and his brothers. He even betrays Magnus in the end in his hopes of saving his brothers from their degeneration.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Legionnaire of the VIIth

[Scribe]

The biggest issue I have with this thread, is that what is being argued in some cases is not the Legion basis, or character traits present, but what can be laid at the feet of particular authors.

 

For example, I actually like the concept of the Raven Guard.

 

I however despise, with every fiber of my being the concept of 'Ninja Marines' and Nykona Sharrowkyn, the biggest joke of a character I have ever seen in a BL book. I have not liked a single reading of the Raven Guard as written by Gav, and so if it came to it, I would say 'I dont like the Raven Guard' on that basis...but thats not true.

 

The same can be said of Wolves, and Sons, of Death Guard, and Salamanders (ok maybe not them, I dont have anything to redeem them...) and Night Lords.

 

I dont know. I can make a good case for every Legion (save Sally's) as being pretty deep and interesting, but I can also make a case that as we see in this thread, all have drastic failings and reasons to dislike them.

[bluntblade]

I have a similar thing of liking the Raven Guard and Salamanders in principle, but only enjoying the fluff French and Bligh have given them..

[Nazguire]

I find the Emperor's Children sorta boring now.  Haven't read anything that goes beyond an obsession for being the best at everything.  Cool, I mean, every Space Marine presumably wanted to be the best of the best.  Fulgrim has been written so as to be so preening, stupid and one dimension that it beggars belief.

 

Raven Guard feel so bland at the moment.  The FW and BL background hasn't really done much to change that perception.  Stealthy ninja Space Marines who were almost all wiped out.  Corax having PTSD is pretty interesting, but other than that they currently feel like sneaky Ultramarines.  The super-Astartes genetic material thing is also dumb.

[Fire Golem]

I think the Forge World Raven Guard section is really cool, actually. I wish there was a decent novel about them. I wonder who will write the Corax Primarch novel, someone like Chris Wraight could probably do something really cool with the RG (although hes done Russ and the Khan, not sure he'd get another).

[Zond]

I find it hard to pin down Legions I dislike. I can see a glimmer of something appealing in all of them whether it's their Primarch, individual characters or just the way the Legion conducts itself. I head cannon a lot of it, but as for official portrayals...

 

Emperor's Children - They fall too fast and too hard to be interesting. We don't get to see and savour their pre-Fall character enough, and what little is shown portrays them as flashy braggarts without any nuance or subtlety.

 

Iron Hands - Ferrus is cool but again they feel defined by his death. And although losing your spiritual and literal father is going to profoundly affect you, I don't feel like I get a sense of their pre Heresy character and I only know them as pseudo Borg.

 

Space Wolves - I love what Dan Abnett did for them, however they feel inconsistently portrayed and I hate the whole Leman Russ had a barbarian persona. I'd rather he was more like Conan, and that was his personality and people constantly underestimated or misjudged him for it. It feels like someone is always crudely hitting me over the head with a stick about how the Space Wolves are more than just barbarians every time this crops up.

 

Salamanders - They're nice and like fire? That's all I know. Again they seem poorly portrayed.

 

Blood Angels - 40k Blood Angels are awesome. Sanguinius is awesome in the Heresy. But the Legion itself without the Black Rage... just seem like noble Luna Wolves. I admit I need to read more but they feel underdeveloped.

 

Death Guard - Inconsistent portrayals of Mortarian and a lack of screen time do it for me. I'm hoping a book about them falling to Nurgle gives us massive insight and flashbacks into Mortarians personality and motivations for turning into a sorcerous traitor.

 

The rest I largely enjoy as is. Which never helps when it comes to actually starting an army...

[TheRealMcCagh]

 

Blood Angels - 40k Blood Angels are awesome. Sanguinius is awesome in the Heresy. But the Legion itself without the Black Rage... just seem like noble Luna Wolves. I admit I need to read more but they feel underdeveloped.

 

 

Hopefully during the Siege we can get more Blood Angel interaction. As a legion they have like ten guys with an actual name. Almost anything Blood Angel related is centered around Sanguinius, which is cool because Sanguinius is a total boss, but at the same time it'd be nice to get some Astartes perspectives. The couple passages they got in Vengeful Spirit were pretty neat

[bluntblade]

Path of Heaven has some transitional EC and portrays the raving hedonists really well.

[Calas Typhon]

Salamanders are the only Legion that I truly dislike due to the fluff behind them, followed shortly by the Raven Guard. However RG are a bit of a weird one for me.

 

Salamanders 

The image the Salamanders take on looks great, with the highly customised gold and green armour. The coal black skin and red eyes are fantastic and really set them apart, they are probably one of the better looking legions around, especially with the pyres burning upon the armour and branding. The fact that they are self reliant with their armour in terms of repair is something I like too. That is as far as I can go with them other than one minor point which leads to the biggest disappointment for me. 

 

The unbreakable line is one thing that I really can get behind with the Legion and it is a fantastic point to focus on if you want a Legion who will not falter in duty to protect an objective and the fact that they come back stronger and stronger from near on elimination is great. Then Vulkan joins and things get turned on their head, him joining was great, its a really cool Primarch/Legion meeting. But every Black Library entry from the Salamanders since Vulkan has been terrible with exceptions to Scorched Earth and the small short in which a group of Salamanders on Isstvan beat the :cuss out of some Night Lords. The majority of the time they are shown as (imo) more than willing to drop an objective to go and help some dude getting shanked by an Ork, or ignore the best possible option, to defend common humanity.

 

I look at the Salamanders as the exact opposite of the Death Guard. Both take to war exactly the same way, close firefights and brutally direct and both do have a similar mentality, a reliance on mental strength, loyalty and inner fortitude, however they put them to use in completely different ways. The Death Guard being the unstoppable force, able to 'go through the rock' rather than 'around the rock', and use their strength to destroy. Salamanders use it as more of a defence for others and form an unbreakable chain, unless there is a kid down the road getting kicked in by a group of cultists, then they will be happy to break the line to help them.

 

Raven Guard

Now I love the Guerrilla warfare and swift merciless violence the Raven Guard bring to the table. They have some cool characters and sections within their Legion, cause some major damage when applied correctly and are not pants on head stupid like most Loyalists. 

 

Can't put my finger on what exactly pissed me off about the Legion, but I think it is Corax. In every entry in the Black Library, he comes across as either too close to the meme nevermore emo, or just a spoiled piece of :cuss. The Legion needs more of a showing in the stories rather than lots and lots of Corax. At the end of Ravenlord when the marine blows his brains against the wall, I came away thinking that the Marine had a far far better backstory than Corax ever had and found it bloody hard to side with Corax. 

 

I don't even mind the Nykona Sharrowkin stuff, its stupid beyond reason in some cases, but it works better on me than Corax does.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Calas Typhon

[bluntblade]

I think the Forge World Raven Guard section is really cool, actually. I wish there was a decent novel about them. I wonder who will write the Corax Primarch novel, someone like Chris Wraight could probably do something really cool with the RG (although hes done Russ and the Khan, not sure he'd get another).

This is pretty much what I'm hoping for. It'd be nice to see both the Ravens and Night Lords operating as full sized Legions, fighting Crusade-scale campaigns.

[Zeratil]

The biggest issue I have with this thread, is that what is being argued in some cases is not the Legion basis, or character traits present, but what can be laid at the feet of particular authors.

 

For example, I actually like the concept of the Raven Guard.

 

I however despise, with every fiber of my being the concept of 'Ninja Marines' and Nykona Sharrowkyn, the biggest joke of a character I have ever seen in a BL book. I have not liked a single reading of the Raven Guard as written by Gav, and so if it came to it, I would say 'I dont like the Raven Guard' on that basis...but thats not true.

 

The same can be said of Wolves, and Sons, of Death Guard, and Salamanders (ok maybe not them, I dont have anything to redeem them...) and Night Lords.

 

I dont know. I can make a good case for every Legion (save Sally's) as being pretty deep and interesting, but I can also make a case that as we see in this thread, all have drastic failings and reasons to dislike them.

 

 

I think the Forge World Raven Guard section is really cool, actually. I wish there was a decent novel about them. I wonder who will write the Corax Primarch novel, someone like Chris Wraight could probably do something really cool with the RG (although hes done Russ and the Khan, not sure he'd get another).

 

   I agree on the authors thing to a certain extent, but outside of the FW books there's not a huge amount to form an opinion with about the Legions, cutting the BL books out removes a good amount of lore about various legions. Although the BL stuff also causes confusion/conflict. Take Prospero for example, there are deliberate contradictions between the various sources for the battle, and a lot of questions about the inner thinking of various characters. What 'side' you pick as the most reliable will sway your thinking on that legions.

 

  It's be an interesting exercise to say 'which is your least favourite legions using the FW as the only source' though...

[Scribe]

 

  It's be an interesting exercise to say 'which is your least favourite legions using the FW as the only source' though...

 

 

A much more interesting question, I agree.