What can the Siege of Terra novels 'borrow' from history?

[Lucifer216]

I'd love to see some nods or references to:

 

The siege of Troy, specially the bit when Hector's body is dragged around by Achilles and Hector's father begs for the right to bury him. Imagine one of the primarchs petitioning another for the right to bury one of their most beloved sons?

 

The use of red-hot sand by Phoenicians during Alexander’s seven-month siege of the Phoenician city of Tyre (now Lebanon) - a great example of an atrocity carried out by a besieged force. What would be the equivalent in 30K? A disease or machine spirt plague that attacks space marines' nervous systems in a horrific way through the connections to their power armour?

 

Also, I don't know if this happened or not, but in one of Conn Iggulden's novels in the Conqueror series about Genghis Khan, a Chinese city institutes a death lottery while it is being laid siege to by the Mongols and a good chunk of its young women jump to their deaths from the city walls rather than continue to starve or be taken by the Mongols. Perhaps this might work well for a city attacked by the Emperor's Children?

 

Finally, while this isn't historical - I imagine that the loyalist apothecaries would be under a lot of pressure to fine-tune their brother's metabolisms for greater lethality at the cost of longevity. Perhaps these tinkering could have paid the way for Cawl's creation of the Belisarian Furnace (The Revitaliser)?

 

Does anyone else have any titbits like these to share?

[grailkeeper]

During the battle of Stalingrad german troops bribed local children with bread to retrieve airdropped food supplies. As a result soviet snipers started targetting children.

 

On the flip side of the coin in one medival french siege the defenders ran very quickly out of water but had a large supply of wine. The defenders ended up hsing wine for all kinds of things where they'd normally use water- like making bread.

 

Two stories that juxtaposed coukd show the difference in life between nobles and citizens in 40k.

[Knockagh]

Apprentice Boys closing the gates of Derry in 1689. Outstanding bravery of the young, bold and brave.

The idea of a’Lundy’ trying to let the approaching army in through his own weakness and fear but having the keys to the city taken off him by brave young idealistic men could definitely be turned in grand scale to the seige of a planet.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Siege of the Imperial Palace will be more mountain warfare than anything else. Its in the Himalayas. 

[Lucifer216]

Good point. If only there was a primarch who grew up fighting battles in such terrain... Oh wait, that's Perturabo 

[R_F_D]

John French said on Twitter the other day/last month that he was rereading Anthony Beevor's Stalingrad.

[karden00]

I'd love to see some nods or references to:

 

The siege of Troy, specially the bit when Hector's body is dragged around by Achilles and Hector's father begs for the right to bury him. Imagine one of the primarchs petitioning another for the right to bury one of their most beloved sons?

 

The use of red-hot sand by Phoenicians during Alexander’s seven-month siege of the Phoenician city of Tyre (now Lebanon) - a great example of an atrocity carried out by a besieged force. What would be the equivalent in 30K? A disease or machine spirt plague that attacks space marines' nervous systems in a horrific way through the connections to their power armour?

 

Also, I don't know if this happened or not, but in one of Conn Iggulden's novels in the Conqueror series about Genghis Khan, a Chinese city institutes a death lottery while it is being laid siege to by the Mongols and a good chunk of its young women jump to their deaths from the city walls rather than continue to starve or be taken by the Mongols. Perhaps this might work well for a city attacked by the Emperor's Children?

 

Finally, while this isn't historical - I imagine that the loyalist apothecaries would be under a lot of pressure to fine-tune their brother's metabolisms for greater lethality at the cost of longevity. Perhaps these tinkering could have paid the way for Cawl's creation of the Belisarian Furnace (The Revitaliser)?

 

Does anyone else have any titbits like these to share?

 

He butchers history. He isn't a bad storyteller, but man, does he butcher history. 

[Wulfburk]

A  counter attack led by the phalanx and other loyal ships at the end of the siege of terra like the charge of the imperial and polish cavalry at the end of the siege of vienna in 1683. Basically, just a full speed attack to take the opportunity of the disarray of the traitor forces with the death of Horus.

 

Also the whole of the siege of terra could be like the great siege of gibraltar, with once the traitors are mostly all deployed in terra and the land battle is in its climax, the surviving loyal fleet makes attempts to break through it and support the land forces or whatever.

 

 

All in all im not sure what they are going to do, i just hope that the fleets from the white scars, the blood angels and specially the imperial fists arent butchered in the first day of the solar campaign, and though taking heavy casualties, they manage to keep the blockade in mars (probably not gonna happen) and  then they muster to counter attack in the end. 

[rendingon1+]

Siege of Ascalon 1153.

Short version: After several months of laying siege to Musulim held Ascalon breach was created.

40 Knights Templar stormed the breach and blocked it for other crusader forces so they could take the best spoils. They were slughtered to a man and the breach was sealed lol.

 

I could totally see some Emperor's Children or World Eaters in that role.

 

Also I second Helm's Deep Viena.

[Wulfburk]

^  Yeah I can certainly see some traitor primarchs wanting to keep a breach for his legion only xD Actually i think all of them lol

Edited October 18, 2017 by Wulfburk

[cheywood]

This idea isn't very developed but on a larger scale the traitors' invasion of and progress through the solar system could make for some interesting parallels with the island hopping campaigns of the Allied forces in the pacific theatre during WW2.

[Marshal Rohr]

Good point. If only there was a primarch who grew up fighting battles in such terrain... Oh wait, that's Perturabo

Are you rolling your eyes because you think I didn't know about Olympia or you disagree that Mountain warfare will be a big influence?

[b1soul]

Never knew about the Siege of Ascalon

 

That's one of the silliest ways to die in war I've ever read

[bluntblade]

I'm not sure how mountainous it'll really be. The Himalayas have spent seven years being ground down for materials.

[Kelborn]

I rather imagine the palace itself as a giant chain of mountains. ^^

[Xisor]

I fancy the idea that the Khan et al is put there running interference in the same way as Skanderbeg's "guerrilla knights" warfare against the inbound Ottoman empire. Transform a swift flight in to Terra to an absolute hell of planet (island) hopping that gives defenders a bit more time to prepare/secure.

 

Of course,we know that on the Thirteenth of Secundus, the bombardment will begin...

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Well i always related istvan to dunkirk. In terms of rescuing loyalists.

 

The siege of terra would probably be akin to the battle for helms deep. Just with guns and on a 1000x larger scale.

[Lucifer216]

 

Good point. If only there was a primarch who grew up fighting battles in such terrain... Oh wait, that's Perturabo

Are you rolling your eyes because you think I didn't know about Olympia or you disagree that Mountain warfare will be a big influence?

 

My apologies, I was just trying to crack a joke and chose what I thought was the smily face emoji.

[Marshal Rohr]

No worries

[Brother Lunkhead]

During the battle of Stalingrad german troops bribed local children with bread to retrieve airdropped food supplies. As a result soviet snipers started targetting children.

 

On the flip side of the coin in one medival french siege the defenders ran very quickly out of water but had a large supply of wine. The defenders ended up hsing wine for all kinds of things where they'd normally use water- like making bread.

 

Two stories that juxtaposed coukd show the difference in life between nobles and citizens in 40k.

 

 

The Siege of the Imperial Palace will be more mountain warfare than anything else. Its in the Himalayas. 

 

 

The Alamo.

 

Wow... these and so many other great ideas. The siege of Terra offers such a huge pallet for battlefield and personal drama that it beggars the imagination. Hopefully the authors that be pick and choose wisely so it doesn't drag out into too many books.

 

Drawing from Stalingrad offers some great scenes  of brutal street and house to house fighting as well as sniper alleys. Heroic last stands as envisioned through the Alamo would be great. The Mongol sieges and brutal systematic slaughter of whole city populations are good idea fuel for many of the chaos legions.

 

Fortunately human history is full of examples of wartime heroism, brilliance, blundering, brutality, and other mayhem to draw from  

[Ullis Temeter]

World War One battles in The Alps could be some amazing inspiration.

An Article from Smithsonian Magazine about it is here:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/most-treacherous-battle-world-war-i-italian-mountains-180959076/

 

National Geographic:
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141017-white-war-first-world-war-italy-austro-hungarian-mountains-history/ 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Ullis Temeter

[b1soul]

I think the Siege will read most like the Siege of Troy, with champions of each side calling each other out

[Marshal Rohr]

I think the Siege will read most like the Siege of Troy, with champions of each side calling each other out

That would be the biggest waste of ink in years.

[b1soul]

Not literally champions lined up and challenging each other...

 

SM are going to be fighting all around the Palace and champions will inevitably meet on the field of battle and clash. There's something very Homeric about Astartes warfare IMO

[ZebraM]

ww1 drumfire but on a planetary scale