HeresyBeliever Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 What are peoples thoughts of Mortarion on the table top ? I haven't been that bothered (basically because I cant be arsed to paint another big winged model) but lately I have been thinking about getting him. What have people found to be his positives and negatives so far? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I am torn on rather or not he is worth the points. As soon as someone sees him you get their entire army trying to shoot or smite him out of existence. I've had him die twice on me on first round shooting because the other player got to go first. I killed him in first round with my SW in first round shooting against another DG player. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Gneecapper Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) I am torn on rather or not he is worth the points. As soon as someone sees him you get their entire army trying to shoot or smite him out of existence. I've had him die twice on me on first round shooting because the other player got to go first. I killed him in first round with my SW in first round shooting against another DG player. Did you try using his Death Shroud with him? They're by far the best bodyguard units in the game just intercepting hits not absorbing wounds. Turn 1 if you dont get first turn, keep him hidden and bunkered up. Turn 2 move closer and then deep strike his Death Shroud around him if you can't get him into a safe position where he can't be easily shot off the board. Once he gets into melee, stuff dies very quickly. Edited October 20, 2017 by Brother_Gneecapper Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 He's far, far undercosted. His damage aura alone is worth 3cp that can only be used once a game; his effectively goes off 10-14 times. He can be killed by overwhelming amounts of firepower, but usually far in excess of his points. Between deathshroud, miasma and summoning heralds to heal him, he can survive most things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I didn't get a chance to use any DS or any psychic defense/tactic when he got killed in first turn. It was literally a full out shoot everything in the opposing army at him twice and there was nothing I could do to protect him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Considering how many Lascannons, Fusion Blaster or similar people in serious games bring I wouldn't say he is undercosted. Rather the opposite, that he isn't worth taking in serious games because he gets shot off the table turn 1 anyway. Bulwyf 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 His performance depends greatly on getting first turn and whether or not you can get warp time off. He's really too big to hide thanks to those wings. The Deathshroud are okay but bloat his cost even more. I've had more success with daemon princes and drones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I realize luck plays a huge factor, especially on the invul blocking high variance weapons like lascannons and meltas, but he's really very resilient. On average, 10 lascannons buffed by Guilliman does 9 Wounds to Mortarion. If I'm not mistaken, the cheapest way to get that many lascannons is on Devs, making it a 1040 point investment to kill Mortarion in one shooting phase. That's twice more than his cost. Even with death shroud, you don't inflate the cost past the one-shot investment Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 He is arguably overcosted in serious games despite his great offense due to limited mobility and how easy it is to kill him with shooting. One or two deep strike melta units can kill him. Gullimen and 2-3 dev squads can kill him easily on 1 or 2 turns once you add in signums and spending a CP to reroll a bad 1-6 damage result on a wound that got through. You can also crush him with triple predators with the 1 CP stratagem, or any of the nasty Astra Militarum shooting. Death Guard is also a bad army for him ironically because the army is too slow to keep up with him and lacks the shooting punch to give him cover. He's certainly overpriced compared to Gullimen and Celestine. That said, he can be very good if you build an army with more than one big target. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 And lets not forget double shooting Slaanesh Lascannon Havocs with VotLW and a nearby lord. Sure it's 2CP but that's definitely worth it to get rid of Mortarion early on I'd say. And the Slaanesh player doesn't even have to tailor his list towards it since Slaanesh Lascannon Havocs are good anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 He is arguably overcosted in serious games despite his great offense due to limited mobility and how easy it is to kill him with shooting. One or two deep strike melta units can kill him. Gullimen and 2-3 dev squads can kill him easily on 1 or 2 turns once you add in signums and spending a CP to reroll a bad 1-6 damage result on a wound that got through. You can also crush him with triple predators with the 1 CP stratagem, or any of the nasty Astra Militarum shooting. Death Guard is also a bad army for him ironically because the army is too slow to keep up with him and lacks the shooting punch to give him cover. He's certainly overpriced compared to Gullimen and Celestine. That said, he can be very good if you build an army with more than one big target. It on average takes 4 Dev squads with signums and RG to kill him. The command reroll to do more damage works both ways to possibly block a las shot from going through. You definitely need more targets, but you have 1500 points left to spend, and they just spent 1100 of theirs shooting at one model. Also triple las preds do 12ish wounds on average? Can cripple him for sure, but they need more shooting to finish him off, and just the preds alone run well over his price. And lets not forget double shooting Slaanesh Lascannon Havocs with VotLW and a nearby lord. Sure it's 2CP but that's definitely worth it to get rid of Mortarion early on I'd say. And the Slaanesh player doesn't even have to tailor his list towards it since Slaanesh Lascannon Havocs are good anyway. They do 5.9 wounds.... That's pretty insignificant for two command points. There's no doubt you can kill Morty in one round of shooting. But he's not overcosted if it takes usually double his amount of points worth of stuff to do it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
old git Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Morty was involved in two games at my club this week. Against my own Khorne army and on the other table against Admech. The Admech finished off the entire DG army in 4-5 turns and my own Kytan shot at him for 2 turns before assaulting and killing him in one round of combat. He ain't so tough... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) I've used Mortarion twice and he did far too well thanks to luck. First game he got ignored because my opponent was used to ignoring Magnus so wanted to push his luck as an experiment, second game he focused so hard on stopping Mortarion that he let my blight lords get a first turn charge that shut down his devastators. So I'll probably do terribly when I take him to a tournament in a few weeks. There's no doubt you can kill Morty in one round of shooting. But he's not overcosted if it takes usually double his amount of points worth of stuff to do it. That's bad logic when you're talking about generalist stuff that doesn't need to take damage to kill him. Soaking up twice his points in fire power for a turn only works if it allows you to put something else in a good position. Edited October 21, 2017 by Closet Skeleton Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Yeah, using twice the amount of points to get rid of a very nasty unit is well worth it if it's gone afterwards and you're free to use that unit against other stuff. It's not like Deathguard has no other high T multi-wound models that are worth getting shot at with Lascannons or similar. ^^ That's the problem this game has with Alpha Strikes. Whoever goes first can nuke something nasty and then is in a point advantage. ;) Bulwyf 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 It's not like Deathguard has no other high T multi-wound models that are worth getting shot at with Lascannons or similar. ^^ Dreadnoughts, blight haulers, crawlers, predators, maybe even rhinos if they have the right stuff in them at the right time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4913964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozo69pd Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 His performance depends greatly on getting first turn and whether or not you can get warp time off. He's really too big to hide thanks to those wings. The Deathshroud are okay but bloat his cost even more. I've had more success with daemon princes and drones. This. I have been playing with him for a bit and basically I ask myself 2 things before the game starts: 1. Did my opponent kit out to kill him in 1-2 turns? 2. Do I get first turn? Those are literally the main deciding factors for him as everyone has said here. Now I have found the best way to list build around these questions, is to bring about 60-80 zombies. If my opponent just brought 10-20 lascannons because they knew I was taking Morty, then those are now completely absolutely useless against my zombies. The only other units I bring are Daemon Princes, Typhus, cultists, and a sorcerer... which are completely bubble wrapped with these ablative wounds. At that point the game becomes a battle of does he roll to hit well or not and how are my DR saves as my models swarm all the objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340607-mortarion-in-game/#findComment-4914153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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