8th Edition List needs tweaking

[Cordova]

So, I have played quite a few games of 8th now and have had my love for the game rekindled. Plus, my regular buddies have been drawn back in, which helps. However, I have yet to settle on anything concrete for a list - I like to have 2/3 lists that I rotate (like different formations etc) as it feels more fluffy to me that my army have these patterns they rotate, but that's just my thing.

 

Anyway, over the last few games, I have decided that I really like the CP mechanic, especially StfS (obviously) so my recent builds have been to maximising this as I think that a lot of games are swung by how you control your foe, and StfS/infiltrate/deep strike do this. To that end, my lists have been cheap and sub-optimal - only a few units really shining. So, onto this post. Below is a list I used recently. I have squeezed everything to get lots in, but I want to tweak it further. Any ideas would be appreciated - I have put some comments on some units to explain etc.

 

 

The list:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [65 PL, 1067pts] ++

+ HQ +

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]
Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]
Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

 

Cheap and cheerful. One sits with the Devastators, the other tends to ride in the Stormraven. Basically the tax.

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
4x Scout w/Boltgun

 

Three tax units, although I have a soft spot for scouts. Putting them on objectives early doors is nice, and I always like to have a few. Underrated IMHO.

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]
Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]
Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

 

Because they are consistently immense.

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator
4x Hellblaster
Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

 

Probably my favourite Primaris. SftS these is amazing.

+ Flyer +

Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 281pts]: Twin heavy bolter, Twin lascannon, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers

 

Only has the HB for points purposes. I'm still not sold on the flyer. He has died to big lascannon rolls too many times. I'm thinking more men on the ground??

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [26 PL, 343pts] ++

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 77pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

 

StfS with Helblasters...

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]
Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

 

Tax unit, just sort of mills about...

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
4x Scout w/Boltgun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
3x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

 

Scouts for points. The Tacticals because I am loyal to them and don't want to scrap them for just Primaris. They tend to ride in the SR and jump out with extra pasma where needed.

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [35 PL, 588pts] ++

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 121pts]: Jump Pack, Plasma pistol, Raven's Fury, Relic blade

 

StfS this dude. Point at something, kill something. Been a hero in several games. Good for removing smaller, elite units or, with JP and StfS, getting a charge into a character.

+ Elites +

Tartaros Terminator Squad [13 PL, 217pts]
Tartaros Sergeant: Combi-bolter, Power sword
4x Tartaros Terminator w/Power fist: 4x Combi-bolter, 4x Power fist

 

StfS these for fun and they have been really successful. No-one likes Terminators in the face. Very cheap for points.

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 125pts]: Jump Pack
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 125pts]: Jump Pack
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

 

Both sit and deep strike just to add another layer. 5 pistols doesn't do loads, but it is enough for an enemy to think about.

 

------------

 

So there we go.

Ideally, I'd like some more Primaris, but not too much. Also, I pretty much need the CP I have to StfS things and keep others for dirty tricks.

Any ideas?
 

[GreyCrow]

Quick question : Why so many detachments ? You are paying a huge tax (387 points) just for the HQ... Are command points worth that much investment ?

 

Stormraven : What do you want to do with it ? What's your plan ? It's an expensive ferry and will attract all the anti tank firepower from the opponent and die quickly, so better make sure that if it's still alive, its cargo is worth it :)

[Cordova]

Quick question : Why so many detachments ? You are paying a huge tax (387 points) just for the HQ... Are command points worth that much investment ?

 

Stormraven : What do you want to do with it ? What's your plan ? It's an expensive ferry and will attract all the anti tank firepower from the opponent and die quickly, so better make sure that if it's still alive, its cargo is worth it

 

The detachments because I tend to use 3-4 CP on StfS. I then often use Honour the Chapter which is 3CP to make sure something is fully dead. That's 6 alone. Then I like a couple of extra for the juicy reroll just in case. But, I'm not averse to chopping bits.

 

The Raven I originally started as extra anti-tank, but the Devs are more reliable. I then liked the flying taxi for a while but it has recently been shot to pieces. I'm thinking of maybe going back to cheaper dakka and then more bods on the floor.

 

In general I play with lots of little units, generally making one thing die while others move about - I try to control shooting etc at what I want, rather than be super-killy. If that makes sense.

[GreyCrow]

Yeah totally !

 

In that case, I would drop the Raven for more guns. It's a good model but is in a bit of an odd situation in 8th.

 

Haven't made one work efficiently so far myself. It's a huge target, hard to hide, and isn't that resilient.

 

For the CPs, fair enough! Just don't plan spending them until the battle begins ;)

[Cordova]

Yeah totally !

 

In that case, I would drop the Raven for more guns. It's a good model but is in a bit of an odd situation in 8th.

 

Haven't made one work efficiently so far myself. It's a huge target, hard to hide, and isn't that resilient.

 

For the CPs, fair enough! Just don't plan spending them until the battle begins

I think more Helblaster and possibly more intercessors, especially if I drop some scouts, but I will need to have a look.

I don't plan to spend all the CP I just often use the same ideas... I think their flexibility is the best thing.

 

The other option is to drop the Terminators too, which frees a number of points to play with...

[seriade]

The reason you are having problems with the storm raven is that it is the only piece of armor in the list so any anti armor shooting your opponent has is by default killing it then moving on.

 

I agree with the comment about the hq tax.  You are probably best trying to make the list into a brigade and then see what you can do after you have applied your core.

[Claws and Effect]

Drop the Stormraven and take 3 Scout Bike squads with the points. Or 3 Attack Bikes and something else. 

 

Then consolidate the detachments into a single Brigade. Boom, 12 CP. 

[Cordova]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

The reason you are having problems with the storm raven is that it is the only piece of armor in the list so any anti armor shooting your opponent has is by default killing it then moving on.

 

I agree with the comment about the hq tax.  You are probably best trying to make the list into a brigade and then see what you can do after you have applied your core.

 

I know this sounds really dense, but I was just desperate to use it, as I hate painting big models and as I had, I wanted it to work. Still, I think this is going to drop for now as really, it is just a big old fire magnet.

 

 

Drop the Stormraven and take 3 Scout Bike squads with the points. Or 3 Attack Bikes and something else. 

 

Then consolidate the detachments into a single Brigade. Boom, 12 CP. 

 

Yeah, I have been toying with a brigade, but I just don't like Scout bikers, or bikers in general. I'm not averse to them, they're just not my favourite.

 

Here is what I have got to:

 

++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [105 PL, 1821pts] ++
 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 121pts]: Jump Pack, Plasma pistol, Raven's Fury, Relic blade
Captain Reliable

Captain [5 PL, 89pts]: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Supports the Hellblasters

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]
Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

Sits with the Devastators

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant, Stalker Bolt Rifle

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant, Stalker Bolt Rifle

 

Give me some harder to shift troops that can sit on objectives as needed.

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
3x Scout w/Boltgun
Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
3x Scout w/Boltgun
Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

I love scouts. Although I'm not averse to making these into sniper scouts, as I feel that might give more of a ranged threat.

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
3x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
3x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

 

Unsold on these. I want a Tac squad or two (for fluff reasons - I will never play as Mr Competitive - but the loadout etc is totally flexible. Without the Raven to fly these about, I'm not sure this is be best use of them.

+ Elites +

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 125pts]: Jump Pack
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 125pts]: Jump Pack
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

 

These guys do their job.

 

I have dropped the Terminators, but I could probably shave enough points to reinstate them, or something else.

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [6 PL, 89pts]: Jump Pack
3x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

Assault Squad [6 PL, 89pts]: Jump Pack
3x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

Assault Squad [6 PL, 89pts]: Jump Pack
3x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

 

I know these guys are much-maligned, but the DS capability, just as another target, or to rush and claim something is useful. Again, not sold, so if you have a better/more sensible use of the points, let me know...

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]
Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]
Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator
4x Hellblaster
Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

As before...

 

---

 

Now, this is short of an Elites section, but that is open and there are still points left.

The general fluff gist of this is a few Primaris bolstering a depleted company - hence wanting some old-flavour marines too...

 

 

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Assault Marines  ---->  Scout Bikers with a storm bolter on the sarge.

 

Much tougher, faster, cheaper, and more dakka.  You got 22" movement if you need it and 22 shots up close.  And that stupid stratagem, cluster mines that you can use once every 20 games then post on this forum about how awsome it is because you took the last wound off of the enemy warlord with it during a game in which you were easily winning already.  

[GreyCrow]

This is a well designed list, it's infantry spam which will give durability and pretty much neuter the enemy multiple damage weapons.

 

Well your Primaris will eat more lascannons than the other squads but that is expected :P

 

Couple of points :

- For Elites, you could go sternguards. Gives you an interesting unit to STFS on top of the other ones

- For tacticals, heavy weapons are more interesting choices if you have the points (even if dropping the combi), more range and more power early on

[Cordova]

Assault Marines  ---->  Scout Bikers with a storm bolter on the sarge.

 

Much tougher, faster, cheaper, and more dakka.  You got 22" movement if you need it and 22 shots up close.  And that stupid stratagem, cluster mines that you can use once every 20 games then post on this forum about how awsome it is because you took the last wound off of the enemy warlord with it during a game in which you were easily winning already.  

 

I'll give a unit a run in my next game. I just don't like bikes...it just seems mental as a strategy. (Not that strapping jet turbines to your back is particularly sensible...)

 

 

This is a well designed list, it's infantry spam which will give durability and pretty much neuter the enemy multiple damage weapons.

 

Well your Primaris will eat more lascannons than the other squads but that is expected

 

Couple of points :

- For Elites, you could go sternguards. Gives you an interesting unit to STFS on top of the other ones

- For tacticals, heavy weapons are more interesting choices if you have the points (even if dropping the combi), more range and more power early on

 

Thank you. Infantry spam is pretty much what I go for. Forces people to move from one whole unit to the next.

 

I had some sternguard before - I might try them again.

For the Tacticals, I may go for HBs on a squad - literally cheap as chips. That squad can then sit with the Devs - offering them screening from the inevtiable Webway Eldar I know I'm going to face.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

And that stupid stratagem, cluster mines that you can use once every 20 games then post on this forum about how awsome it is because you took the last wound off of the enemy warlord with it during a game in which you were easily winning already.  

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jaded 

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by ltvyper

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

The hidden gem for tacticals I think is the grav cannon.  You just dump it in the front of your deployment zone and get really nice volume for an objective camper.  Any marines in range are going to feel the pain.  So will scouts/cultists, light vehicles, and bikers.  A 5 man tac squad with a grav cannon costs 90 points.  

 

 

And that stupid stratagem, cluster mines that you can use once every 20 games then post on this forum about how awsome it is because you took the last wound off of the enemy warlord with it during a game in which you were easily winning already.  

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jaded 

 

 

 

Hey I was actually describing something that happened in my last game!  That Alpha Legion terminator lord got PUNKED!  My opponent was like "show me the page that stratgem is on"  He thought I was making up.  I pretty much was since cluster mines is so situational no one ever uses it.  

Edited October 24, 2017 by SanguinaryGuardsman

[GreyCrow]

Bikes can totally work in a more brutal approach, assault marines are more flexible.

 

I know your struggle, I always advocated their use since 6th with good effect, as long as they are used for what they are : bodies that move fast that you can place anywhere.

 

Control of when and where deep strike occurs has just made them immensely more useful than before!

 

Turn 1 distraction, counter assault, exploiting terrain, they're totally a utility unit, much less straightforward than bikes but so much more Swiss knife

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

The hidden gem for tacticals I think is the grav cannon.  You just dump it in the front of your deployment zone and get really nice volume for an objective camper.  Any marines in range are going to feel the pain.  So will scouts/cultists, light vehicles, and bikers.  A 5 man tac squad with a grav cannon costs 90 points.  

 

 

Hey I was actually describing something that happened in my last game!  That Alpha Legion terminator lord got PUNKED!  My opponent was like "show me the page that stratgem is on"  He thought I was making up.  I pretty much was since cluster mines is so situational no one ever uses it.  

 

I figured based on your tone you were either being sarcastic or it that is what actually happened. I was nearly positive you were being sarcastic from the likelihood of those events taking place with the use of Cluster Mines.  I am pleasantly surprised to see it go the other way!

 

I am about to give you a nick-name pertaining to scout bikes (Just like Damo knows I refer to him as "the hater of Hellhounds").

 

All in good fun of course!

 

Back on topic:

 

For the Fast Attack slots, if you don't want to run Bikes, I second the mention of just barebones-cheap assault marines. Another thing to consider is if you don't want to drop the Stormraven, you could run Assault Marines without packs inside the Raven (with 2x2 Flamers) and dump them out as a respectable little counter assault (maybe consider swapping the aimless Leutenant to a Chaplain)

 

Or, Drop the Raven, keep the ASM route, and give them all 2x Flamer or 3x Plasma Pistol, and cap objectives with them. The idea is to keep them cheap so your opponent doesn't WANT to shoot at them.

 

For the elites slot, I vote a 10-Man unit of Sternguard with just Special Issue Bolters (to use with the stratagem alongside your SFTS firebase) and then some Dreads for more fire support. Ven Dreads with Twin LC/ML. Also if you keep the Raven, this is a great spot for an Ironclad.

 

I do agree with GreyCrow, if you keep the Raven, you really need a little more armor in the list to balance out the targets for your opponent, otherwise its going to die every game rather horribly (Just a storm talon or two can help). But if you go that route, you will have to drop the brigade idea more than likely.

 

One thing to consider: STFS does benefit larger squads, so it is a bit at-odds with the MSU nature of Brigade (but the extra CP do help offset that).

 

Just some scattered thoughts.

Edited October 24, 2017 by ltvyper

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

The hidden gem for tacticals I think is the grav cannon.  You just dump it in the front of your deployment zone and get really nice volume for an objective camper.  Any marines in range are going to feel the pain.  So will scouts/cultists, light vehicles, and bikers.  A 5 man tac squad with a grav cannon costs 90 points.  

 

 

Hey I was actually describing something that happened in my last game!  That Alpha Legion terminator lord got PUNKED!  My opponent was like "show me the page that stratgem is on"  He thought I was making up.  I pretty much was since cluster mines is so situational no one ever uses it.  

 

I figured based on your tone you were either being sarcastic or it that is what actually happened. I was nearly positive you were being sarcastic from the likelihood of those events taking place with the use of Cluster Mines.  I am pleasantly surprised to see it go the other way!

 

I am about to give you a nick-name pertaining to scout bikes (Just like Damo knows I refer to him as "the hater of Hellhounds").

 

All in good fun of course!

 

 

 

I was being half sarcastic.  I actually did punk a chaos terminator lord with cluster mines in my last game... I just didnt post on this forum about how awesome cluster mines and scout bikers are because of the stratagem.  

 

I do think scout bikes are one of the best Raven Guard units in 8th but not because of the stratagem.  

 

Regarding nicknames... how about Grand Hussar SG ?  Nice and modest.

[Cordova]

Bikes can totally work in a more brutal approach, assault marines are more flexible.

 

I know your struggle, I always advocated their use since 6th with good effect, as long as they are used for what they are : bodies that move fast that you can place anywhere.

 

Control of when and where deep strike occurs has just made them immensely more useful than before!

 

Turn 1 distraction, counter assault, exploiting terrain, they're totally a utility unit, much less straightforward than bikes but so much more Swiss knife

 

This is why I have always loved them. I feel the 'Assault' part of their name is a misnomer. If you thought 'Recon' marine, I think you'd be more on the money. They can arrive where you need, or put pressure somewhere. Sure, they aren't hard to kill, but they force an opponent to react which, to me, is part of their key role.

[GreyCrow]

Absolutely! The naming is extremely misleading.

[seriade]

No the name is not misleading when they were named they were most definitely meant to fight in cc.   The issue is that between that time they have not significantly changed but how cc works has and as those changes have occurred the assault marine has gotten worse at actually assaulting.  Just to emphasize this at one point a krack missile an assault cannon and a lightning claw all had the same damage profile for how much damage they all do, now they are all distinctly different.

[Cordova]

I think that, in terms of what they are meant to do, the name is fine. But in reality if you think of them as pure Assault, then they will let you down - but as fast moving regular marines, they do what you want.

 

But, anyway, another thought I have been having is doubling up the plasma pistols on the VV. This would make eaech squad 160pts, which seems quick cheap for 2 lots of 10 plasma shots that can arrive where I want.

 

Thoughts?

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I think that, in terms of what they are meant to do, the name is fine. But in reality if you think of them as pure Assault, then they will let you down - but as fast moving regular marines, they do what you want.

 

But, anyway, another thought I have been having is doubling up the plasma pistols on the VV. This would make eaech squad 160pts, which seems quick cheap for 2 lots of 10 plasma shots that can arrive where I want.

 

Thoughts?

 

I just got done playtesting "gunslinger" Vanguard Veterans. I liked them, but there is a few things to be aware of:

 

1) To get their full value, they need a Jump Pack Captain as a babysitter allowing rerolls of 1. You are going to want to overcharge them.

 

2) If you play against a balanced list that has lots of armor and lots of bubble wrap (Like Guard/Tyranids) you will find that they become much harder to use without suffering vindication. Against a smaller/elite force, you will find they will be worth their weight in gold.

 

3) In the same vein as above, it is easy for them to get isolated, so it's worth keeping that in mind when using them.

 

I personally ran them in a big unit of 10, but in hindsight that was probably a mistake (short of the reserve/deployment/drops argument). Smaller units isolates the counter attack risk you are exposed to.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

I think that, in terms of what they are meant to do, the name is fine. But in reality if you think of them as pure Assault, then they will let you down - but as fast moving regular marines, they do what you want.

 

But, anyway, another thought I have been having is doubling up the plasma pistols on the VV. This would make eaech squad 160pts, which seems quick cheap for 2 lots of 10 plasma shots that can arrive where I want.

 

Thoughts?

 

I just got done playtesting "gunslinger" Vanguard Veterans. I liked them, but there is a few things to be aware of:

 

1) To get their full value, they need a Jump Pack Captain as a babysitter allowing rerolls of 1. You are going to want to overcharge them.

 

2) If you play against a balanced list that has lots of armor and lots of bubble wrap (Like Guard/Tyranids) you will find that they become much harder to use without suffering vindication. Against a smaller/elite force, you will find they will be worth their weight in gold.

 

3) In the same vein as above, it is easy for them to get isolated, so it's worth keeping that in mind when using them.

 

I personally ran them in a big unit of 10, but in hindsight that was probably a mistake (short of the reserve/deployment/drops argument). Smaller units isolates the counter attack risk you are exposed to.

 

Run 10.. you can stratagem them down to 5 if need be.

[Cordova]

 

I think that, in terms of what they are meant to do, the name is fine. But in reality if you think of them as pure Assault, then they will let you down - but as fast moving regular marines, they do what you want.

 

But, anyway, another thought I have been having is doubling up the plasma pistols on the VV. This would make eaech squad 160pts, which seems quick cheap for 2 lots of 10 plasma shots that can arrive where I want.

 

Thoughts?

 

I just got done playtesting "gunslinger" Vanguard Veterans. I liked them, but there is a few things to be aware of:

 

1) To get their full value, they need a Jump Pack Captain as a babysitter allowing rerolls of 1. You are going to want to overcharge them.

 

2) If you play against a balanced list that has lots of armor and lots of bubble wrap (Like Guard/Tyranids) you will find that they become much harder to use without suffering vindication. Against a smaller/elite force, you will find they will be worth their weight in gold.

 

3) In the same vein as above, it is easy for them to get isolated, so it's worth keeping that in mind when using them.

 

I personally ran them in a big unit of 10, but in hindsight that was probably a mistake (short of the reserve/deployment/drops argument). Smaller units isolates the counter attack risk you are exposed to.

 

 

Some good ideas, thanks.

 

I have a game on Friday against a friend who could turn up with one of three armies/variants of. Either SM, GK (or a Dreadknight spam list that is grim) or Dark Eldar.

 

I am thinking of the following:

 

++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [114 PL, 2000pts] ++

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain [6 PL, 121pts]: Jump Pack, Plasma pistol, Raven's Fury, Relic blade

 

Captain [5 PL, 89pts]: Chainsword, Combi-plasma

 

Captain [6 PL, 100pts]: Chainsword, Jump Pack, Plasma pistol

This guy is to arrive with the VV and let me overcharge more often.

+ Troops +

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant, Stalker Bolt Rifle

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant, Stalker Bolt Rifle

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 75pts]

Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 75pts]

Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]

3x Space Marine

Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]

3x Space Marine

Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

+ Elites +

 

Sternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 88pts]

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

Veteran Sergeant

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 160pts]: Jump Pack

Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol

Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol

Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol

Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol

Veteran Sergeant: 2x Plasma pistol

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 160pts]: Jump Pack

Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol

Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol

Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol

Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol

Veteran Sergeant: 2x Plasma pistol

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Assault Squad [6 PL, 89pts]: Jump Pack

3x Space Marine

Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

 

Assault Squad [6 PL, 89pts]: Jump Pack

3x Space Marine

Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

 

Assault Squad [6 PL, 89pts]: Jump Pack

3x Space Marine

Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]

Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

 

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]

Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

 

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator

4x Hellblaster

Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

 

 

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Some things still seem sparse - like the Sternguard, so I'm not sure how that'll go. Will be interesting. Any last thoughts?

[Cordova]

First of all, apologies for a) the double post and b ) bringing this back up again. However, I thought it more sensible than starting another thread that is about the same thing...

 

Anyway. One of my friends is returning over the Christmas break and he has asked to play a few games against me. It turns out he has found a new gaming group who want to run some sort of tournament thing. Knowing that I have done a few (only local gaming shop ones etc), he asked if I could help.

 

Now, I have given up on being competitive, as a) this is a game and b ) I was fed up of WAAC players. That said, I do like a good challenge. So, I agreed. Now, I know he is going to be running Eldar with a fair few Hemlocks and Farseers for some Smitey fun.

 

I don't want to deviate too far from the way I play - MSU, infantry based, I just want to tweak some existing ideas. As a result, I have put together some things, but thought I could garner some support from here and try to then 'reward' us all with a bat-rep of our collective minds vs the squishy space elves...

 

Onto the list ideas:

 

------

++ Battalion Detachment ] ++



**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

 

Lias Issodon - 195 points

I'm breaking out Issodon as I always used to, and against a competitive list I don't mind bringing a big hitter.  He will come in with the 2 Sternguard and possibly something else...

 

I need another HQ here, but undecided on what....

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant, Stalker Bolt Rifle

Basically to sit and have 10 wounds on an objective...

Scout Squad [6 PL, 75pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [6 PL, 75pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Just because.

+ Elites +

Sternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 90pts]
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Veteran Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Special issue boltgun

Sternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 90pts]
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
Veteran Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Special issue boltgun

 

These guys go with Issodon and something else. They are in 5s because a) I don't like blobs of 10 marines and b ) Because I don't like 10 marines - my fluff is set up for 5 man squads...

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]
Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]
Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

 

Pretty obvious.

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator
4x Hellblaster
Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

 

Usually SftS in the midfield to cause merry hell.

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP++

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 121pts]: Jump Pack, Plasma pistol, Raven's Fury, Relic blade

 

Usually StfS and then engages - just to keep something in his face.

+ Elites +

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 160pts]: Jump Pack
Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol
Veteran Sergeant: 2x Plasma pistol

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 160pts]: Jump Pack
Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol
Space Marine Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol
Veteran Sergeant: 2x Plasma pistol

These have been working wonders recently. They usually drop near the captain and just shoot away.

 

This still needs another Elite. I have run StfS Terminators before, but I'm just not sure that is the best use of points to be honest...

 

----

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated - thanks guys.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Cordova