New FAQ

[Halfpint100]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/22/new-faqs-and-errata-for-the-astra-militarum-and-beyond-oct-22gw-homepage-post-1/

 

Index and AM codex FAQs:

 

AM:

Commissars now kill one for a moral re-roll

Ogyrn bodygaurds and Nork can no longer block ogyrn wounds (endless bodyguard survival stuff)

Tallarn ambush can only have one unit of vehicles! (though could be a squad of 3) and count as having moved their maximum distance. (reduced russ masacres).

Send in the next wave costs reinforcment points 

Dagger of Tu'Sakh can only be taken my infantry officers 

Commissar with Draconian disciplinarian warlord trait can kill D3 models after the first (if 2nd test fails) to autopass

Master of command warlord trait allows all regiment orders (including tempestus)

 

Index:

Earthshakers got -3ap

All russes got grinding advance

Malcador and thunderer with Grinding advance rules have a new name called lumbering advance (no double shots)

Stormsword seige cannon is no heavy 2d6, ignored cover and re-rolls damage of 1s

twin earthsaker is -3 ap

DKOK command squad and rough rider command squads need an DKOK officer per one taken

Also got the new summary execution rules (kill one for re-roll)

Elysian command squads got same as codex.

DKOK, elysians and heretic lists CANNOT use the doctrines, orders, strategems, warlord traits, etc in Codex: AM (index rules only)

MoO only affects Basilisks, wyverns, Manticores and Deathstrikes (no buffs for carriages) 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Halfpint100

[sirparthos]

We knew the changes were coming :) A lot of ambiguity cleared up.

[TheShredder]

So, to clarify:

- Master of Command now works properly.

- Commissars are now worthless.

- Send in the Next Wave is completely worthless.

- Draconian Discipline is garbage outside of Conscripts.

[Khornestar]

Hmm, really a lot less work went into the FW document than I hoped for. 

 

As for the codex, I'm glad they clarified all the bull :cuss sneaky nonsense that people were planning RE: ogryn bodyguard conga line wound bouncing shenanigans and such.

[Mitchverr]

DKOK, elysians and heretic lists CANNOT use the doctrines, orders, strategems, warlord traits, etc in Codex: AM (index rules only)

 

Actually what it says is regiment specific.... Which could be read as "cant use regiment specific" or "cant use any" still by many people. Again, FW is terrible at writing things in a normal way. I would say it says nothing about generic stuff where the FW book doesnt cross it (eg you can use generic stratagem or relics, but not the orders or doctrines) from how its written, its just, urgh, FW get better people to check for holes in your FAQs.

 

But seriously, many changes in this are either stupid, pointless or crippling to the relics, special orders or specific units (commissars for example), whoever was writing this i think jumped the shark on hammering things.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Feral_80]

Well, I welcome most of those. Other, not really. A bit brutal as a FAQ, in any case.

 

 

Commissar nerf: will result in more command squads with standards around (very good, fluffy), more Lord Commissars (ok), and especially, now Conscripts are complete crap. I always despised Conscripts spam, so I'm very fine with that. I laugh really hard at whoever just bought 150 awful-as- models just to abuse them - well deserved.

 

Send in the next wave: honestly, unnecessary and unreasonable. Valhallan took a big hit, and they are now considerably worse. It's not a completely useless stratagem. Sad.

 

Tallarn nerf: reasonable. Also the relic Dagger thing.

 

Take cover: reasonable, I'm fine with that.

 

Ogryn bodyguard: very reasonable, again goes against idiocy so it's welcome. 

 

 

 

Overall, however, quite a show that GW codex design skills are still quite the same.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Feral_80

[Petitioner's City]

Yeah for FW it says:

 

 

Q: Can Death Korps of Krieg, Elysian Drop Troops or Renegades and Heretics Detachments use any of the Regiment-specific rules (Doctrines, Orders, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, etc.) in Codex: Astra Militarum?

A: No. Instead these units use the bespoke abilities and Orders that are described in Imperial Armour – Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum. [my emphasis]

 

So anything generic is fine. And this makes total sense, and is not badly written. 

[Mitchverr]

The fact it includes Renegades and Heretics bugs me though.

 

But they are qwasi guard stuff etc so it would make sense to still have guard doctrine to a degree etc.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Chris521]

Well, I guess FW doesn't want my money after all. With the exception of the Vulcan, you have 350+ point tanks with a comparable damage outputs to a Leman Russ.

[Tirak]

Wow, conscripts and commissars are now completely worthless. That's a change I didn't see coming.

[Halfpint100]

Yeah for FW it says:

 

 

Q: Can Death Korps of Krieg, Elysian Drop Troops or Renegades and Heretics Detachments use any of the Regiment-specific rules (Doctrines, Orders, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, etc.) in Codex: Astra Militarum?

A: No. Instead these units use the bespoke abilities and Orders that are described in Imperial Armour – Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum. [my emphasis]

 

So anything generic is fine. And this makes total sense, and is not badly written. 

 

Ah my bad. That makes more sense. Generic strats and warlord traits sounds more logical than blanket ban

[OnboardG1]

Commissars aren't worthless. They're still very useful for backing up infantry and special weapon squads due to the Ld bubble and the reroll. They just can't keep 30 badly trained militia in the fight, which is fine.

 

Valhallan nerf is brutal though, dunno why that needed to happen.

[Tirak]

1. Conscripts aren't badly trained militia. We've been over this.

 

2. No, comissars automatically shoot 1 if you fail the test, even if it was just by 1 and force a reroll. Comissars are now more deadly to your army than not having them.

[Withershadow]

Great, Commissars are garbage now, and that should be the final nail in the coffin for Conscripts.  All Hail Valhalla?

[Imperator Deus]

It's funny how Guard finally got a competitive rules set this edition, but every FAQ seems to be chipping away at it, lol. I have Space Marine, Chaos Space Marine and Adeptus Mechanicus armies as well, and none of them have been nerfed to the same degree, if at all (looking at you AdMech!).

 

I agree that the Ogryn Bodyguard shouldn't be protecting other Ogryns, they should have just said that OBs could effect any officers or commissars rather than any character.

 

Send in the next wave should cost reinforcement points. Given the changes in 8th, nobody should get free units, even though for some reason AdMech does according to their FAQ. That should be changed too.

 

The Commissar nerf was completely over the top in my opinion. Commissars have always killed a model to autopass morale checks, why change it now? Even the Conscript nerf seems a little unnecessary, but at the end of the day, it was a reasonable nerf - not too hard, not too soft. This makes it so it's not even worth taking a commissar anymore. Why pay 30 pts plus wargear just to end up losing an extra guy to morale checks?

Edited October 22, 2017 by Imperator Deus

[Petitioner's City]

The fact it includes Renegades and Heretics bugs me though.

 

But they are qwasi guard stuff etc so it would make sense to still have guard doctrine to a degree etc.

 

 

 

Yeah for FW it says:

 

 

Q: Can Death Korps of Krieg, Elysian Drop Troops or Renegades and Heretics Detachments use any of the Regiment-specific rules (Doctrines, Orders, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, etc.) in Codex: Astra Militarum?

A: No. Instead these units use the bespoke abilities and Orders that are described in Imperial Armour – Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum. [my emphasis]

 

So anything generic is fine. And this makes total sense, and is not badly written. 

 

Ah my bad. That makes more sense. Generic strats and warlord traits sounds more logical than blanket ban

 

 

I agree about R&H, since they can't give orders, and it would be weird to take heroic imperial relics. In addition, Elysians and Kreig can only give orders from their list, I think. Or were the Index orders updated with the AM codex?

 

[Withershadow]

Conscripts are worthless because they will crumble to morale and commissars are now more a hazard than a benefit.

 

Clarification on master of ordnance that wasn't needed and nothing done to make him less garbage.

 

Ambush can only bring in one vehicle, at least this should make putting models into that vehicle as one deployment more of a palatable scenario for the opponent.

 

Dagger can only be carried by an officer (used to be any astra militarum character), that's a great shame because I really wanted to give it to a Ministorum Priest.

 

Send in the Next Wave is effectively worthless, because why would you weaken your list in order to save some reinforcement points to maybe get the opportunity to spend stratagem points to bring back a unit way out of position on your side of the field?

 

Terrible.  The Commissar thing was the worst, but I guess it will really piss off everyone who had gather hundreds of conscripts for their net lists.  Silver lining?

 

 

The worst thing is the FAQ to the FW Index stuff... they didn't fix any of the previous issues, and just confirmed the staggering mediocrity of most of the contents.  Swell.  All my lovely Malcadors are now paperweights.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Withershadow

[Tirak]

I had 60 conscripts in my list and it :cuss me off.

 

Edit: dont dodge swear filter

Edited October 22, 2017 by duz_

[Mitchverr]

What a day to be a krieger eh.

 

I do feel sorry for everyone who isnt a krieg player, but do remember if you need those boys to stand and fight, krieg is here for you still, even if your commissars are not.

 

 

BTW, did i miss it or did they still not give krieg command tanks the mars hull +1 save thing?

Edited October 22, 2017 by Mitchverr

[TheShredder]

Send in the next wave should cost reinforcement points. Given the changes in 8th, nobody should get free units, even though for some reason AdMech does according to their FAQ. That should be changed too.

 

Having it cost Reinforcement Points just makes it pointless though.

 

Why wouldn't you just buy more infantry units in the first place and start them on the table? 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Commissar nerf was coming, everyone saw it coming, we had threads anticipating it, and people were surprised when it didn't really seem to land with the Codex. Well here we are. Conscripts, IMO, should be worthless. At 3ppm they're the equivalent of Gretchin and cheaper than almost any other unit, and are a bargain compared to Gretchin and a lot of other comparable chaff. 

 

The Tallarn nerf is interesting and shakes up my strategy a fair bit, but I've been relearning my love of Veterans outflanking with this doctrine, so this will be taken in stride.

 

However I'm not sure why people think GW has something against us due to this FAQ? The Ogryn pass-the-wound was obviously going to get nerfed, FW Russes are now better, (I'm thinking an Annihilator is on the cards for conversion next!) Conscript spam has been endlessly complained about since the Index settled in, and everyone could see they were insane as they were, and even limited to 30 and gimping their Order capabilities did little to solve the fact that they're 3ppm Fearless models that simply take more fire to kill than most lists can produce.

 

We've still got the best Codex we've had in as long as I can remember, and we're still sitting pretty in the stack for 8th Edition. I think we'll bear out quite fine, and consider that now no-one can point to Conscripts to claim we're an easy army to win with. 

[TheShredder]

Commissar nerf was coming, everyone saw it coming, we had threads anticipating it, and people were surprised when it didn't really seem to land with the Codex. Well here we are. Conscripts, IMO, should be worthless. At 3ppm they're the equivalent of Gretchin and cheaper than almost any other unit, and are a bargain compared to Gretchin and a lot of other comparable chaff. 

 

Ah yes, I always forget that Conscripts are the only infantry unit in the entire IG codex.

[Withershadow]

The Commissar nerf also makes the Combined Units stratagem also worthless.  So they effectively deleted one unit and two stratagems from the codex.

 

What a day to be a krieger eh.

 

I do feel sorry for everyone who isnt a krieg player, but do remember if you need those boys to stand and fight, krieg is here for you still, even if your commissars are not.

 

 

BTW, did i miss it or did they still not give krieg command tanks the mars hull +1 save thing?

Krieg still sucks, because we pay 20% more for our benefits, and don't get the best orders available to us, and while the Mars Alpha tanks now have the same grinding advance rule, they are still paying old point costs.  How much is that +1 save vs. bolters thing really worth to you? 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Withershadow

[Tirak]

Great, so to deal with Imperial Soup lists they screw over guard. That's a win in your book? Considering that every other hoard army has morale mitigation and now we don't I put that down as a pretty gutwrenching loss.

[Mitchverr]

The Commissar nerf also makes the Combined Units stratagem also worthless.  So they effectively deleted one unit and two stratagems from the codex.

 

What a day to be a krieger eh.

 

I do feel sorry for everyone who isnt a krieg player, but do remember if you need those boys to stand and fight, krieg is here for you still, even if your commissars are not.

 

 

BTW, did i miss it or did they still not give krieg command tanks the mars hull +1 save thing?

Krieg still sucks, because we pay 20% more for our benefits, and don't get the best orders available to us, and while the Mars Alpha tanks now have the same grinding advance rule, they are still paying old point costs.  How much is that +1 save vs. bolters thing really worth to you? 

 

For tanks i am still sitting on using Tallarn, but for infantry, an extra point per model imo does work fairly well for units you want to hold an objective over aggression.

 

As for the +1 save thing, i was asking more to make sure i didnt miss that, because if they aint even changed that, then i doubt we will see russes reduced in cost anytime ever.

 

As I said before, FW is bad at doing FAQs.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Mitchverr