New FAQ

[CoffeeGrunt]

 

Commissar nerf was coming, everyone saw it coming, we had threads anticipating it, and people were surprised when it didn't really seem to land with the Codex. Well here we are. Conscripts, IMO, should be worthless. At 3ppm they're the equivalent of Gretchin and cheaper than almost any other unit, and are a bargain compared to Gretchin and a lot of other comparable chaff. 

 

Ah yes, I always forget that Conscripts are the only infantry unit in the entire IG codex.

 

Literally no part of what I said implied that. Smaller squads don't need Commissars for the most part, especially with Fight To The Death for particularly ravaged squads. You need to lose two models before there's even a small chance of losing another model in a Veteran or Infantry Squad. Command Squads rarely go to Morale due to size, they die like leaves from the vine under most anti-infantry fire.

 

This nerf only really affects Conscripts to any major degree.

[TheShredder]

Literally no part of what I said implied that. 

 

That's exactly what you implied - by the fact that you only mentioned Conscripts, as if they were the only Infantry unit affected.

 

 

You need to lose two models before there's even a small chance of losing another model in a Veteran or Infantry Squad. 

 

Oh, wow, two whole models. Because we all know how difficult it is to kill T3 5+ dudes. And they have to kill two of them.

 

Yeah, you're right. I'm sure losing more than 1 guardsman per squad per turn is a once-in-a-blue-moon event.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Are you deliberately ignoring basic mathematics?

 

You lose two men. You roll and oh, it's a 6, darn, and you can't re-roll nor did you use FttD. That's 6+2 for 8, which means...oh...one dude. Well that's Mr Lasgun there, then, doing his job, dying to save the SpecWeaps.

 

And that's on an absolute whiff of rolling a 6, assuming you're not Mordian or Catachan, in which case you have easy access to +1Ld to make it require 3 Casualties before you have that small chance of losing another, 4 if you use a Regimental Standard. At the point at which Morale becomes a serious threat for a ten man unit or less, the unt is already dead or near dead, but you still have two separate Stratagems to mitigate or negate Morale anyway.

 

It only affects Conscripts because, due to the Battleshock system, they suffer immensely. Every model lost above their Ld value is another lost to Morale, plus the D6. At this point in a 10 man squad, the squad is already dead or on its last man anyway if we're talking about Ld8 or 9 Commissars being present.

Edited October 22, 2017 by CoffeeGrunt

[noigrim]

Terrible nerf, next game I think I'll get basic infantry squads with the valhallan doctrine

[Withershadow]

Combined Squad stratagem is made worthless by this change. The Ld buff from a commissar is nice but again the summary execution rule is now a detriment in all ways.

 

Better just bring Inquisitors for their leadership auras and psychic powers.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Withershadow

[CoffeeGrunt]

Tbh I stopped running Commissars a few weeks ago because I realised I was actually saving very few models using them. 

[TheShredder]

You lose two men. You roll and oh, it's a 6, darn, and you can't re-roll nor did you use FttD. That's 6+2 for 8, which means...oh...one dude. Well that's Mr Lasgun there, then, doing his job, dying to save the SpecWeaps.

 

And that's on an absolute whiff of rolling a 6, assuming you're not Mordian or Catachan, in which case you have easy access to +1Ld to make it require 3 Casualties before you have that small chance of losing another, 4 if you use a Regimental Standard. At the point at which Morale becomes a serious threat for a ten man unit or less, the unt is already dead or near dead, but you still have two separate Stratagems to mitigate or negate Morale anyway.

 

Are you just being obtuse at this point?

 

Unless there's an option for 'plot armour' in the codex that I've missed, you're usually going to be losing a lot more than 1-2 squad members.

 

In fact, it's really easy for a squad to be reduced to just 3-4 members (typically the sergeant, the special weapon and the HWT).

 

Now, this is where Commissars *used* to come in. They ensure that either the enemy has to pour in more fire to kill the last few members, or else the key members (the special weapon and heavy weapon) will definitely survive.

 

Now though, not only will a Commissar not guarantee that they'll survive, he might actually make things worse. For example, if I lose 6 members and then roll a 3 for morale (+6 = 9) then I'd normally lose 1-2 members (depending on whether I have a Ld bonus/aura). However, with a Commissar, I am forced to kill one member and than have to reroll the morale test - most likely getting a worse result in the process that results in the entire squad dying. So, instead of a bonus, they've actually become a liability.

 

 

Regarding Conscripts, yes, I agree that they were hit hardest. But they were also the whole reason for the change in the first place. 

 

What I don't get is why people are celebrating Commissars being made worthless for every other Infantry unit in the codex. 

[micahwc]

Russ tanks are still great. Basic infantry with orders are still decent. You can still put three tanks in ambush, just not three commanders. Honestly, guard are still good.

[Khornestar]

Well, due to typical oversight renegade enforcers didn’t get the nerf, so are surprisingly better at managing blobs than commissars. :D

[CoffeeGrunt]

Nobody is celebrating the Commissar nerf, but it is what it is. It took four months for GW to do something about it, and the only way to change it would be to contact them with suggestions on how you feel it could be better executed, (pun intended.)

 

I'm being obtuse because a thread full of people moping about Commissars "sucking" isn't really a constructive discussion, even if it is cathartic and misery loves company. It's better to focus on what it affects, what it changes, and what other things have changed. How can we adapt, etc, etc?

 

Otherwise it just ends up like the Tau groups where every thread is a circle of crying constantly.

[TheShredder]

Nobody is celebrating the Commissar nerf

 

Clearly you haven't looked on non-IG forums. 

 

 

I'm being obtuse because a thread full of people moping about Commissars "sucking" isn't really a constructive discussion, even if it is cathartic and misery loves company. It's better to focus on what it affects, what it changes, and what other things have changed. How can we adapt, etc, etc?

 

Granted, but this is a discussion about the faq and the Commissar took one hell of a nerf, so I think we can be permitted a bit of salt. 

 

But you're right, let's instead focus on how we can overcome this.

 

Do you think it makes Valhallan, Mordian and/or Catachan more attractive options? Since they all have ways to either increase Ld or reduce casualties from morale? And the Valhallan artefact lets you make a Company Commander into a better Commissar than an actual Commissar.

[Guardsman Bob]

I found Commissars useful in lists without Conscripts. This “solution” doesn’t really seem well thought out. Even people’s comments about increasing the kill numbers for pass or linking that to unit size/consipts were better ideas.

 

Regular Commissars are dead to me. There are plenty of better Elite options out there.

 

My Lord Commissars with a power fist actually feel more important now for that Ld boost. Which works out great with Mordians anyways. Got my lemonade, godspeed to the rest of you.

 

 

Edit: Apologizes to Shredder, just now noticed your comment about using other Regiment Docrines. I might already be semi committed to Mordians but that doesn’t excuse not citing your comment inside my later reply.

 

Edit: Why didn’t they just make the Commissar, “execute a model, roll two dice and select the best for moral,” I figured that out in less than 15 minutes.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Guardsman Bob

[noigrim]

 

Nobody is celebrating the Commissar nerf

 

Clearly you haven't looked on non-IG forums. 

 

 

I'm being obtuse because a thread full of people moping about Commissars "sucking" isn't really a constructive discussion, even if it is cathartic and misery loves company. It's better to focus on what it affects, what it changes, and what other things have changed. How can we adapt, etc, etc?

 

Granted, but this is a discussion about the faq and the Commissar took one hell of a nerf, so I think we can be permitted a bit of salt. 

 

But you're right, let's instead focus on how we can overcome this.

 

Do you think it makes Valhallan, Mordian and/or Catachan more attractive options? Since they all have ways to either increase Ld or reduce casualties from morale? And the Valhallan artefact lets you make a Company Commander into a better Commissar than an actual Commissar.

 

This!

 

A company commander with the relic pistol is the new comissar (unitl next nerf?)

 

Since they don't say that your tank commander can't order himself, he now can

[duz_]

I found Commissars useful in lists without Conscripts. This “solution” doesn’t really seem well thought out. Even people’s comments about increasing the kill numbers for pass or linking that to unit size/consipts were better ideas.

 

Regular Commissars are dead to me. There are plenty of better Elite options out there.

 

My Lord Commissars with a power fist actually feel more important now for that Ld boost. Which works out great with Mordians anyways. Got my lemonade, godspeed to the rest of you.

Im in the same boat. I did like a regular commissar or two floating around. However now I'll just stick to LC's. Their leadership buff plus Mordian buff means I am less likely to need their Summary Execution and they do well in CC.

Ironically though when they do need their SE in play it probably means the whole unit will die now ...

The nerf was excessive I would have been fine if it was just to Conscripts, but this applies to Veterans and Scions (which already have abysmal leadership).

 

Annoyingly the FAQ failed to address the Valk disembark.

[Guardsman Bob]

Holey smokes! The Laurels of Command is dead to me. The 4+ was already iffy enough and failed me more than helped. Now you can’t stack orders into one dice roll. It’s purpose went from iffy shooting chance with boosts to iffy tactics/single-shooting. Someone get me my violin.

[TheShredder]

Holey smokes! The Laurels of Command is dead to me. The 4+ was already iffy enough and failed me more than helped. Now you can’t stack orders into one dice roll. It’s purpose went from iffy shooting chance with boosts to iffy tactics/single-shooting. Someone get me my violin.

 

Sorry, could you elaborate on this? I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by 'stack orders into one dice roll'. 

[Chris521]

I think people are going to be a lot more interested in the commissar tank with the 6 inch Ld 9 bubble.

[Harrowmaster]

Probably resolve multiple orders at once

[CoffeeGrunt]

As far as I understand it, you execute one Order before resolving the next. Previously I thought it meant that you could stack buffs on a unit, e.g., give it FRFSRF and Take Aim, however it sounds like you do one Order, resolve it, then can potentially do another. I guess Move Move Move after firing? I dunno if I'm misinterpreting it.

 

Also I think the nerf to Commissars does make other options more attractive. Commissar Tank might be useful for me now.

[TheShredder]

As far as I understand it, you execute one Order before resolving the next. Previously I thought it meant that you could stack buffs on a unit, e.g., give it FRFSRF and Take Aim, however it sounds like you do one Order, resolve it, then can potentially do another. I guess Move Move Move after firing? I dunno if I'm misinterpreting it.

 

Also I think the nerf to Commissars does make other options more attractive. Commissar Tank might be useful for me now.

 

Ah, okay. Yeah, I see the issue now.

 

Probably didn't help that I initially misread that item (I thought you got to issue an order to a different unit on a 4+)  .

[Guardsman Bob]

As far as I understand it, you execute one Order before resolving the next. Previously I thought it meant that you could stack buffs on a unit, e.g., give it FRFSRF and Take Aim, however it sounds like you do one Order, resolve it, then can potentially do another. I guess Move Move Move after firing? I dunno if I'm misinterpreting it.

Exactly!

 

In the escalation league last week I used them on my Warlord with the Voice of Command. That gave me a second chance to proc the Laurels. Coffee actually nailed the two orders used together the few times it did work. My rolls in both games were pretty bad.

 

If GW didn’t want them being used to boost shooting I can understand that. But the least they should have done was make it automatic.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah if they don't work that way, (i.e., load Orders onto a unit, then fire,) then I don't think I'll be running them much.

[our_baz]

 

As far as I understand it, you execute one Order before resolving the next. Previously I thought it meant that you could stack buffs on a unit, e.g., give it FRFSRF and Take Aim, however it sounds like you do one Order, resolve it, then can potentially do another. I guess Move Move Move after firing? I dunno if I'm misinterpreting it.

Exactly!

In the escalation league last week I used them on my Warlord with the Voice of Command. That gave me a second chance to proc the Laurels. Coffee actually nailed the two orders used together the few times it did work. My rolls in both games were pretty bad.

If GW didn’t want them being used to boost shooting I can understand that. But the least they should have done was make it automatic.

I have previous of getting stuff like this wrong (so basically ignore me!), for example to resolve FRFSRF just means you double your shots? So you could couple this with take aim, which allows you to re-roll ones, right? But you couldnt issues the orders the other way around as you can only shoot once?. I think I've just confused myself, basically the FAQ needs an example or am i being as think as an ogryn.

[Plasmablasts]

Is Aura of Discipline still a rule in the Codex? (Sorry, only got Index.) if so, any unit at risk of Summary Execution should be taking their morale check at Ld 8, so would have to take three casualties to be liable to potential morale failure.

 

Number of casualties :- chance of worse outcome in morale phase (including the victim of the SE rule):

 

3 :- 1/36

4 :- 1/9

5 :- 1/4

6 :- 4/9

7 :- 25/36

Edited October 22, 2017 by Plasmablasts

[plaguedroneofblight]

As far as I understand it, you execute one Order before resolving the next. Previously I thought it meant that you could stack buffs on a unit, e.g., give it FRFSRF and Take Aim, however it sounds like you do one Order, resolve it, then can potentially do another. I guess Move Move Move after firing? I dunno if I'm misinterpreting it.

 

Also I think the nerf to Commissars does make other options more attractive. Commissar Tank might be useful for me now.

 

You're thinking of 7th edition orders, where you "immediately" did things. Now you change/enable things after issuing orders. 

FRFSRF:  All // guns // change their Type // until the end of the phase.

So you are absolutely free to issue Bring it Down as well, before finally making the shot.