New FAQ

[duz_]

 

 

So GW basically went and did FW's FAQ for them and had fun screwing over the FW tank players.

 

How do you know FW rules writers weren't involved with the writing of the document?

Because it's the only way to give them the benefit of the doubt.  Either they were not involved due to other responsibilities, or they are clueless idiots.

 

 

Either way not particularly relevant to the discussion. 

[Die4Emprah]

I'm not sure how to express myself, but I'll try.

 

I built a guard army during 6th edition, I liked that guardsmen had no names, and they were essentially really only good for dying.  I enjoyed losing to win. I could out-die my opponents, and laugh the whole time. I used conscripts, commissars, tons of heavy weapons teams. (Back then you needed 3 platoons to make 150 conscripts, so naturally, I had about 200 souls on the board. 
Lots of painting.  I didn't show up with a poor looking army.

 

By seventh, I started dealing with Krieg, and detachments, etc. Still loved "Dying harder" than the bad guys. I have a fairly good record (about 70% win rating). My opponents never liked conscripts, Commissars, or even the Kriegs lack of shooting morale failures. I wasn't concerned. 

All that has changed, at least doing it as efficiently. My gaming group is now overjoyed, and pleased that I no longer have the tool I've been using for years.

 

How they forget.

I'm not here to win. I'm here to kill guardsmen, my own guardsmen. 
Even with the nerf, I'm fine. I'll run Valhallan until the DKoK comes out (hopefully not too disappointing).
I'll take Yarrick for the lead bubble,

I'll equip a Valhallan officer with "old painless".
I'll put more flags out (everyone likes that).

I might even use astropaths for that morale buff, they're cheap, and who cares? 

The point is, I've lost a small edge. Meh, If that makes salty xenos players happy to play me again, great. 
It won't make it any easier on them, because now I'm trying harder, and not just showing up to get drunk. 

Ave Imperator

[NatBrannigan]

Well Blimey, a few extreme things in that FAQ aren't there!

 

The Commissar thing is bizzare... I don't really use conscripts (although they're now weaker so I won't feel so bad making mine up) but enjoyed Commissars making my Infantry squads less likely to disintegrate. This actually makes the Mordians +1LD more attractive so that's a big plus. My regimental standard is now also useful and Inquisitors dishing out LD 9 (or is it 10?) in a bubble is also useful. It makes my normal list better by comparison in fact. Doesn't stop the fact that Commissars now seem to actively inhibit you

 

Everything else makes sense except for the Valhallan stratagem nerf. That's brutal! Just remove the Stratagem and put in something else at that point...

 

Quick question. Does the Mordian +1LD and the Regimental standard +1LD stack on top of an Inquisitor or Commissars LD bubble? And does LD cap at 10 any more? Because Inquisitorially inspired flag carrying Mordians with LD11 sounds pretty handy!

 

Edit: Also, bravo to the post above and to Die4Emprah. That's the spirit! If you make it harder to a guard player to win you'll just make him (or her!) more determined! We're used to being the underdog. Bring it on and if that means swapping from Beer to Coke during a game then... well I might not do that but bravo for those that do!

Edited October 24, 2017 by NatBrannigan

[our_baz]

 

Quick question. Does the Mordian +1LD and the Regimental standard +1LD stack on top of an Inquisitor or Commissars LD bubble? And does LD cap at 10 any more? Because Inquisitorially inspired flag carrying Mordians with LD11 sounds pretty handy!

 

Think this has been covered earlier but yup. So, Lord Commissar + Mordian Doctrine =  Ld10.

[NatBrannigan]

Well that's good news.

 

What's that? Your Marines are LD 8? What are they, cowards!?

[Tirak]

No, you replace your LD with the comissar's which is not regiment and gets no buff.

[our_baz]

No, you replace your LD with the comissar's which is not regiment and gets no buff.

The Mordian doctrine "....the unit has +1 Ld....." So take  Lord Commie Ld = 9 +1 =10. Win!

[TheShredder]

 

No, you replace your LD with the comissar's which is not regiment and gets no buff.

The Mordian doctrine "....the unit has +1 Ld....." So take  Lord Commie Ld = 9 +1 =10. Win!

 

 

But the unit isn't using its own Ld - it's using the Commissar Lord's Ld. And he doesn't benefit from the Mordian doctrine.

[duz_]

Already discusses this to some extent. Depends on your interpretation a FAQ would be nice

 

 

Also, can regimental banners stack with command auras?

Depends on how you interpret the aura. With the LC entry it says use LCs vs their own, so argument there to say it doesnt replace their leadership value.

Which is important because the banner says their Ld value, as opposed to Parade drill which says the unit has +1 Ld.

 

Semantics yes, but that's the differences.

 

At the very least my Mordians should be Ld10 around my LC or Ld9 around a banner. :D

[Tirak]

Already discusses this to some extent. Depends on your interpretation a FAQ would be nice

 

 

 

Also, can regimental banners stack with command auras?

Depends on how you interpret the aura. With the LC entry it says use LCs vs their own, so argument there to say it doesnt replace their leadership value.

Which is important because the banner says their Ld value, as opposed to Parade drill which says the unit has +1 Ld.

 

Semantics yes, but that's the differences.

 

At the very least my Mordians should be Ld10 around my LC or Ld9 around a banner. :D

Ye Gods don't ask for another FAQ! They might decide that grinding advance is too powerful due to community feedback and remove that too!

[micahwc]

A FAQ for the errata and an errata for the FAQ?

 

I'm not too worried. Send in the next wave nerf sucks. Oh well. We have a few less great options to choose from. I'm pretty excited for guard right now. Now if I had spent the money to buy the metal models to go in with "send in the next wave" then I'd be a bit pissed. I can sympathize. But guard are still in a good place for now.

[Tirak]

We'll live, but the nerf is more about invalidating a style of play. I run Air Mech guard, so I'm simply swapping to normal infantry to get around this. But if you wanted to run A large infantry force it's a kick to the gut since it's go Valhallen or go home now. I always dislike it when options become more limited Edited October 24, 2017 by Tirak

[Zectz]

I've asked on the Facebook page (and it seems quite a few others have as well) about the LD increase abilities stacking with Commissars or not so hopefully they will answer it or pass it onto the rules team for a FAQ update or something. My interpretation is that it does stack but I can understand why others say it doesn't. I highly doubt GW would have designed these rules for them not to work together. If that's not the case then it just makes things even more obsolete. Let's see what they say.

[micahwc]

True. But I don't think Vallhallens were the only way to play infantry. Cadians have a decent trait for heavy weapon squads, special weapon squads, Veterans, and basic infantry. They are great for setting up an Infantry heavy firebase. Tallarn's trait is decent for infantry as well. Our codex has a lot of good choices, it just now has a few less.

 

I think an only infantry approach is still perfectly playable. For example, in an only infantry force we have access to heavy weapon squads for anti-tank and/or anti-horde armies, infantry for anti-infantry and anti-hoard duties, scions for deep striking BS 3+ special weapons and objective grabbing, command squads/special weapon squads for more special weapons, and psykers, priests, ogryns, ratlings, etc.

 

Our basic infantry person combined with orders is probably the most point efficient troop model in the game. BS 4+ isn't much of a limiting factor when you can re-roll 1s/all misses whenever you want.

 

Orders make our infantry the best infantry in the game.

[Die4Emprah]

When you need a FAQ for a FAQ....

 

 

Agreed on Body heavy favor to Valhallans:
Also, taking a special weapons squad of max flamers and firing into your own melee: Priceless.
Valhalla back, Y'all!

[Mitchverr]

Question....

 

Does the Yarrick change mean he can order elysian and death korps troopers?

Edited October 24, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Guardsman Bob]

 

 

No, you replace your LD with the comissar's which is not regiment and gets no buff.

 

The Mordian doctrine "....the unit has +1 Ld....." So take Lord Commie Ld = 9 +1 =10. Win!;)

But the unit isn't using its own Ld - it's using the Commissar Lord's Ld. And he doesn't benefit from the Mordian doctrine.

The Commissar tag has nothing to do with it. The Mordian doctrine says the unit “has +1 Leadership.” Using the Commissars Leadership is the same thing as having it.

 

Also number substitutions are applied first then modifiers as per the main FAQ.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Guardsman Bob

[librisrouge]

Question....

 

Does the Yarrick change mean he can order elysian and death korps troopers?

I wouldn't see why not. He can order around any regiment and Elysian/DKoK are just regiments.

[Brother Talarian]

When you need a FAQ for a FAQ....

 

 

Agreed on Body heavy favor to Valhallans:

Also, taking a special weapons squad of max flamers and firing into your own melee: Priceless.

Valhalla back, Y'all!

Woha, wouldn't this also mean that flamers can't hit your own troops? As only hot rolls of 1 hit your troops? Seems illogical but...

[Tirak]

 

 

 

No, you replace your LD with the comissar's which is not regiment and gets no buff.

 

The Mordian doctrine "....the unit has +1 Ld....." So take Lord Commie Ld = 9 +1 =10. Win!;)

But the unit isn't using its own Ld - it's using the Commissar Lord's Ld. And he doesn't benefit from the Mordian doctrine.

The Commissar tag has nothing to do with it. The Mordian doctrine says the unit “has +1 Leadership.” Using the Commissars Leadership is the same thing as having it.

 

Also number substitutions are applied first then modifiers as per the main FAQ.

Comissars and other advisors do not benefit from regimental doctrines. Aura of Dicipline replaces your LD with the comissars if higher. Since your leadership is 5 thanks to mordian, you replace with comissar, who does not benefit from the buff.

[olcottr]

Ld 10 is very rare in 8th edition. I can't imagine the designers intended to enable infantry squads to have higher leadership than their leaders.

 

Mordians don't need Commissars to have discipline!

[Beams]

Lord commisar (LD 9) with the BRB warlord trait of +1 LD, or Inquisitor Greyfax with the same trait (at least until codex IA comes out for LD 11)

 

Mordians easily get to ld 9 by themselves though. LD 7 +1(Mordian) +1 (Flag), so they should be fine for infantry squads.

[Zectz]

Ok so not official response but somebody else referred me to the rulebook FAQ which answers a very similar question and makes sense. See the question on page 4 about Culexus Assassin changing the WS/BS and how that interacts with modifiers.

 

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40K_8th_ed_Update_Rulebook_ver_1.1.pdf

 

The ability makes affected units change their WS/BS to the 6+ value and FAQ confirmed that modifiers are applied after this case. So I would say that the Mordian Parade Drill & Regimental Standard are applied in the same way after changing the Infantry squads LD to the value of the Commissar's.

 

What do you guys think?

[our_baz]

Ok so not official response but somebody else referred me to the rulebook FAQ which answers a very similar question and makes sense. See the question on page 4 about Culexus Assassin changing the WS/BS and how that interacts with modifiers.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40K_8th_ed_Update_Rulebook_ver_1.1.pdf

The ability makes affected units change their WS/BS to the 6+ value and FAQ confirmed that modifiers are applied after this case. So I would say that the Mordian Parade Drill & Regimental Standard are applied in the same way after changing the Infantry squads LD to the value of the Commissar's.

What do you guys think?

That was also my take, a similar example is published on page 1 of the Designers Commenatary FAQ with reference to Strength. In that case change S characteristic then apply modifiers.

 

EDIT: many may not see it this way and that is fine by me. This is how I would apply the rules, rightly or wrongly. I don't want to light the fuse on another rules lawyering death spiral, but I fear I have. Mods if you want please melta this with extreme prejudice.

Edited October 24, 2017 by our_baz

[Tirak]

Except it's a substitution of someone else's leadership that cannot get the buff in question, not a malus. It's not the infantry's leadership to be modified. That's my interpretation. If the comissar could get the buff, then it'd be simple.