New FAQ

[TheShredder]

If nothing else, there would be something weird about an Infantry Squad having better leadership than the Commissar sent to keep it in line. 

[Mitchverr]

I read it as Tirak does, that it is the LD bubble guy who must be modified, at least thats how I read it with reguards to applying it to Venner for example (and how many DKK players seem to in order to get his insane 12 inch up to LD 11/12 bubble).

 

Otherwise, what happens if the LD bubble guy has his LD buffed by something and then the units under his bubble have something near them too, does that 2nd unit get the best of both worlds? For example with Venner again, give him both the DKK flags, he is LD 11, he applies it to ALL friendly units, meaning generic guard is LD 11 near him, if they have their own regimental flag near them, do they suddenly become leadership 12?

[Withershadow]

Multiple sources of the same buff do not stack, so in that case I would assume you just get the benefit of a single banner.

[Mitchverr]

Multiple sources of the same buff do not stack, so in that case I would assume you just get the benefit of a single banner.

 

For venner, platoon standard and regimental standard which are specifically DKK different items, then for the non DKK unit, their own banner, which only effects their own guys, technically it isnt the same buff stacking, but if that is the same, then for example you could apply it to any unit with any other form of leadership buff such as say, admech broad spectrum data tethers which give them a +1 independantly, would that also be added onto the new LD?

 

 

edit: Flag wars meta anyone?

Edited October 24, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Guardsman Bob]

 

 

 

 

No, you replace your LD with the comissar's which is not regiment and gets no buff.

The Mordian doctrine "....the unit has +1 Ld....." So take Lord Commie Ld = 9 +1 =10. Win!;)

But the unit isn't using its own Ld - it's using the Commissar Lord's Ld. And he doesn't benefit from the Mordian doctrine.

The Commissar tag has nothing to do with it. The Mordian doctrine says the unit “has +1 Leadership.” Using the Commissars Leadership is the same thing as having it.

Also number substitutions are applied first then modifiers as per the main FAQ.

Comissars and other advisors do not benefit from regimental doctrines. Aura of Dicipline replaces your LD with the comissars if higher. Since your leadership is 5 thanks to mordian, you replace with comissar, who does not benefit from the buff.

In the main rule book FAQ they use the example of the Cluexus Assassin’s Etherium Abiltiy verses a druggy elf +1 to hit. Normally the elf would only be able to hit the assassin on 6+ because his stat is replaced by that. So at first the stat is changed to 6+ then the +1 to hit moves it to 5+.

 

The Commissar aura and Mordian Doctrine work the same way.

 

A few notes:

* Aura of Discipline (CAM pages 90 & 101) states the unit may use the Commissars Leadership. There are no stipulations other than range.

* Mordian: Parade Drill (CAM page 131) only requires the entire unit to be in base-to-base. It doesn’t set any other restrictions.

* Procedure example for stat changes and modifiers are in the Warhammer 40k Errata/FAQ page 4

 

 

Disciplined ranked fire has always been the Mordian fluff since second edition 40k. Considering Mordians aren’t getting impressive tanking, damaging, or maneuvering potentials others have the burden is on us to make this Doctrine work the best it can.

[Guardsman Bob]

If anyone wants to wave a flag for an easy unit that will require minimal effort to kill then go ahead and throw away your points. Maybe your oppentent will write a thank you note for not bringing a Damage-Command Squad.

[Withershadow]

Because damage command squads are not equally vulnerable, more expensive, and a higher priority target.  A command squad with flag, vox, and mortar can hide out of line of sight and provide support to static elements like heavy weapon squads and artillery.  A flag and three grenade launchers is very cheap, can hang behind the lines with the range to continue to contribute, and is not a huge priority target. 

[Tirak]

 

In the main rule book FAQ they use the example of the Cluexus Assassin’s Etherium Abiltiy verses a druggy elf +1 to hit. Normally the elf would only be able to hit the assassin on 6+ because his stat is replaced by that. So at first the stat is changed to 6+ then the +1 to hit moves it to 5+.

 

The Commissar aura and Mordian Doctrine work the same way.

 

A few notes:

* Aura of Discipline (CAM pages 90 & 101) states the unit may use the Commissars Leadership. There are no stipulations other than range.

* Mordian: Parade Drill (CAM page 131) only requires the entire unit to be in base-to-base. It doesn’t set any other restrictions.

* Procedure example for stat changes and modifiers are in the Warhammer 40k Errata/FAQ page 4

 

 

Disciplined ranked fire has always been the Mordian fluff since second edition 40k. Considering Mordians aren’t getting impressive tanking, damaging, or maneuvering potentials others have the burden is on us to make this Doctrine work the best it can.

 

 

Aura of Discipline: Astra Militarum units within 6" of a friendly Commissar can use the Commissar's Leadership instead of their own

 

 

The Mordians in our example are not replacing their leadership stat number with the number of the Commissar's leadership line, they are actively using the Commissar's leadership instead of their own. The +1 to LD does not affect this in any way as their leadership line is being channeled from a completely different unit. It is though while reading the stat line, when it comes to LD you are looking at the Commissar's sheet, not the Infantry sheet.

[Guardsman Bob]

I’d rather have another Infantry Squad for FRFSRF, objective grabbing, and wound soaking.

[duz_]

=][= I think we can all agree that we dont understand the workings of the Leadership stacking. Lets move on, start a thread in Offical Rules if you want to take it further. =][=

 

Edit: Now in bold for those that missed it or chose to ignore it the first time!

Edited October 25, 2017 by duz_

[Guardsman Bob]

The Mordians in our example are not replacing their leadership stat number with the number of the Commissar's leadership line, they are actively using the Commissar's leadership instead of their own. The +1 to LD does not affect this in any way as their leadership line is being channeled from a completely different unit. It is though while reading the stat line, when it comes to LD you are looking at the Commissar's sheet, not the Infantry sheet.

There is not a single precedent or written rule in the entirety of 8th to support that.

[Tirak]

Etherium: Each time an enemy model attacks this model, the attacks are resolved as if the attacker had a Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill characteristic of 6+.

 

 

Aura of Discipline: Astra Militarum units within 6" of a friendly Commissar can use the Commissar's Leadership instead of their own

 

 

 

These two rules are vastly different, attempting to interpret them the same way is your mistake. The one replaces WS and BS with a specified number, the second says that you use the Leadership of another unit.

[DrLoveMonkey]

Because damage command squads are not equally vulnerable, more expensive, and a higher priority target.  A command squad with flag, vox, and mortar can hide out of line of sight and provide support to static elements like heavy weapon squads and artillery.  A flag and three grenade launchers is very cheap, can hang behind the lines with the range to continue to contribute, and is not a huge priority target. 

 

I've been trying to do the math on this myself, what with the commissar nerf and all. I think with all units being able to split fire however they like, basically any command squad built for any purpose should not expect to survive the first turn  on the table, absent a strictly barebones squad with only lasguns. Basically anything you can give them makes them a super juicy target. Even a single standard is worth diverting a few bolter shots into. If you give them a standard and 3 genade launchers they're cheap, but every kill takes out a special weapon vet, by my mind that's completely worth it.

 

I haven't had much of a chance to try them out personally but I simply can't see how firing a dozen bolters to take out a 44 point squad is ever not worth it. Which really sucks, I was hoping to run command squads with a standard, medic, vox and heavy flamer for any close encounters. There's almost no better value target than that for the enemy's anti infantry weapons.

[Spyboy]

I know it would not work for everyone, but would color sergeant Kell be a good idea for ld buff, or is he just two expensive points wise. He is a character, so he has that going for him over a command squad with banner.

[Withershadow]

 

Because damage command squads are not equally vulnerable, more expensive, and a higher priority target.  A command squad with flag, vox, and mortar can hide out of line of sight and provide support to static elements like heavy weapon squads and artillery.  A flag and three grenade launchers is very cheap, can hang behind the lines with the range to continue to contribute, and is not a huge priority target.

 

 

I've been trying to do the math on this myself, what with the commissar nerf and all. I think with all units being able to split fire however they like, basically any command squad built for any purpose should not expect to survive the first turn  on the table, absent a strictly barebones squad with only lasguns. Basically anything you can give them makes them a super juicy target. Even a single standard is worth diverting a few bolter shots into. If you give them a standard and 3 genade launchers they're cheap, but every kill takes out a special weapon vet, by my mind that's completely worth it.

 

I haven't had much of a chance to try them out personally but I simply can't see how firing a dozen bolters to take out a 44 point squad is ever not worth it. Which really sucks, I was hoping to run command squads with a standard, medic, vox and heavy flamer for any close encounters. There's almost no better value target than that for the enemy's anti infantry weapons.

That squad is impossible anyway since that takes 5 guys. But maybe pure support is another way to go, just banner and medic (vox optional), keep them behind infantry so they are always out of line of sight or obscured.

[NatBrannigan]

Mordians (and Praetorians), should be taking a couple of Flags anyway. Shame on you if you're not!

 

A somewhat related questions about standards and LD, but one I'm hoping escapes the mods wrath and is easy to answer. Do the Regimental and Platoon banners stack? I know that two regimental banners would still only give me a +1Ld but would a Regimental and Platoon banner give me a +2, since they are different items?

 

So a Mordian Infantry Squad in base to base (+1LD), near a Regimental standard (+1LD) would get another +1LD for being near a Platoon standard?

[Halfpint100]

Platoon standard only works for militarum tempestus.

[NatBrannigan]

Ah! Well that solves that then, I kept forgetting there are not two different kinds of command squads now so Platoon standards aren't a thing. Must have been reading the MT section of the codex.

 

I keep hoping that I will gain some benefit for running both my flags every game, it extends the LD bubble out at least. After all what kind of regiment doesn't have two flags on display during a battle!? Kings (Emperors) colours and Regimental colours.

[Major_Gilbear]

I keep hoping that I will gain some benefit for running both my flags every game, it extends the LD bubble out at least.

 

I think you pretty much answered your own question here, but another (fluffy) benefit is redundancy. :)

 

Besides, with +1 Ld from a Doctrine, and +1 from a nearby flag, you easily have Ld9 Dudesmens. I think that's pretty good personally, and if you're still losing lots of casualties from failed morale checks at that level, then I'd politely suggest that the affected units might be getting too much enemy attention? ;)

[NatBrannigan]

I'm very happy with LD9 on a basic infantry squad yep. I just want them to be higher than Marines so I can scoff at them!

 

As for "lots of casualties", that's rather the point for Guardsman! It's why I take 6 Infantry squads. I'll maybe loose a couple more than I was to morale but with the points saved from a Commissar I'll just put some Conscripts or something down.

[TheShredder]

Regarding Commissars, another possible replacement is Inquisitors (for their Ld9 aura).

 

They're more expensive and would require their own detachment, but they can also bring Smite (and Storm Bolters or such, if you're so inclined). 

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Oops - meant to put this here!

 

Regarding the Malcador Heavy Tank, FW actually responding very quickly to my email, with a disappointing, but logical answer.
 

Thank you for your email. The Malcador Heavy tank never had the grinding assault (now Lumbering Advance) rule like the other Malcador's as it was specific to vehicles with a Demolisher cannon, which it deosn't have. So the new FAQ is correct.

I never even noticed it wasn't the turret but the hull demolisher that got the reroll. In either case, Malcadors are kinda lame and the Heavy Tank especially is crap.

[micahwc]

The defender still has 7 heavy bolters, which is nice.

[Khornestar]

Yeah, I don't think GW deserves flak for these FAQs/errata. FW seems to think many of their units are just fine.

[Vel'Cona]

Late to the party, but here are my takeaways:

 

-Commissar nerf seems largely to deal with the Conscript problem, which is a shame because it punishes ALL of our Infantry pretty badly.  I don't mind IG actually be affected by Morale Phase (since we're just humans, after all) but this leans the list even further into "all tanks or nothing", which is a shame.  Still, I wouldn't call Commissars useless, just not auto-include as in the Index.

 

-Ogryn Bodyguard nerf REQUIRED to deal with the nonsense being passed around with Leman Russ Character/Bodyguard wound tanking.  Not mad about this, at all.

 

-Tallarn nerf not significant enough, IMO, as GW made it clear that you can still count the single Vehicle choice as a squadron (meaning 3 Leman Russes, etc.).  This Strategem needed to be limited to once per deployment phase, in addition, but I suppose this is a start.  The blurb about Vehicles moving maximum distance is nice to prevent Grinding Advance stacking, though.

 

-Send in the Next Wave!  Made somewhat useless.  Oh well, good thing Valhallans still run the most durable armour.

 

-Brood Brothers corrections are appreciated to keep Nids from getting all of IG's fun "toys".  As someone that owns a GSC army, I don't mind this at all.