New FAQ

[Brother_Gneecapper]

Great, so to deal with Imperial Soup lists they screw over guard. That's a win in your book? Considering that every other hoard army has morale mitigation and now we don't I put that down as a pretty gutwrenching loss.

 

Guard still have tons of ways to mitigate morale, there is still the basic rule book stratagem that allows you to auto pass a morale test. You can do this once per morale phase, guard have the most command points of any armies that I have seen and have the highest chance of (re)generating new ones. There are banners which raise your leadership, there are the com's and sarg's too. I believe the nerf was a bit heavy handed, since as other have stated it makes Commisars more of a liability to their own army than help. Their ability should allow a re-roll and to chose the lowest result or an optional re-roll for a chance at a better roll, RAW make it seem like it's a forced re-roll.

 

Space Marines have a similar mechanic in Know No Fear, allows them to re-roll and that re-roll may not be beneficial so you have to weigh your options to decide if its worthwhile. Space Marines do benefit from a much lower squad count so they are not as affected however. Making it a may instead of a must would put them in line with similar rules.

[Tirak]

There are 2 other hoard armies. Orcs and nids. Orc leadership is equal to numbers, meaning you need to cut a T4 unit in half before it cares about morale. Nids ignore morale in synapse. We are not in line with other hoard by any stretch of the imagination. Edited October 25, 2017 by Tirak

[FallenSoldiers]

There are 2 other hoard armies. Orcs and nids. Orc leadership is equal to numbers, meaning you need to cut a T4 unit in half before it cares about morale. Nids ignore morale in synapse. We are not in line with other hoard by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah but no ones bubble wrapping Primarchs with Ork Boyz.

[Tirak]

Not our problem. You don't punish the guard because space marine players abuse the game.

[FallenSoldiers]

Not our problem. You don't punish the guard because space marine players abuse the game.

Preach on, brother. I agree that the bigger issue was the handling of the <Imperium> keyword.

There are 2 other hoard armies. Orcs and nids. Orc leadership is equal to numbers, meaning you need to cut a T4 unit in half before it cares about morale. Nids ignore morale in synapse. We are not in line with other hoard by any stretch of the imagination.

Also don’t forget the new Eldar ability to reduce all morale losses down to 1... sounds like they hijacked some Commissars!

[Mitchverr]

 

There are 2 other hoard armies. Orcs and nids. Orc leadership is equal to numbers, meaning you need to cut a T4 unit in half before it cares about morale. Nids ignore morale in synapse. We are not in line with other hoard by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah but no ones bubble wrapping Primarchs with Ork Boyz.

 

 

Thats more a "maybe change how imperial soup works" over "punish 1 army" thing in my view. Something simular existed in a few computer games I used to play, where people would take "soup" armies picking the best bits and min maxing doing so, this lead to the devs nerfing units which in turn lead to more use of said system because suddenly the more flavoured gameplay was significantly worse as their best stuff got hammered. Then the dev teams learned to just outright stop min maxing soup armies and allow faction flavour and uniqueness and people went back to playing solo "fluff" setups over min max everything in 1.

 

Sadly, I dont think GW realises this is where the problem is, that  <imperium> keyword is the problem yet and so they will continuely hammer the meta after meta being used because they refuse to deal with the actual problem. I mean, if <imperium> armies were not possible beyond very limited things, would there have been as many complaints about the guard? I highly doubt it.

[DrLoveMonkey]

Do you guys think removing the imperium keyword from conscripts, but keeping the ASTRA MILITARUM keyword would work properly? Fluff it out as the conscripts not really being part of the full imperial forces yet or something, or am I missing some interaction that would kill that idea?

[CoffeeGrunt]

To be fair to Tyranids, their hordes cost more, have less armour, and arguably worse guns. Also their Synapse is provided by big, obvious models perfect for AT fire. :P

[Tirak]

You clearly have not fought nids with malenthrope support that bring floods of gaunts that reroll to both hit and wound with their assault bolters, regenning 10 gaunts a turn. Edited October 25, 2017 by Tirak

[CoffeeGrunt]

You clearly have not fought nids with malenthrope support that bring floods of gaunts that reroll to both hit and wound with their assault bolters, regenning 10 gaunts a turn.

You mean Bolt Pistols, that's what Fleshborers are. Also rerolling to Wound of 1 is all you can do, if there's 20+ models. Reroll to hit of 1 requires a 250pt Tervigon. Malanthrope is 90pts. You're talking about 120pt squads of 30 with 340pts of support.

 

You're honestly saying that compares to a 20pt Platoon Commander, 31pt Commissar and 50 dudes for 150pts? That's 211pts. That's half.

[Tirak]

Devourers my friend, not fleshborers. I've seen these forces annihilate vehicles as well as infantry.

[Beams]

 

You clearly have not fought nids with malenthrope support that bring floods of gaunts that reroll to both hit and wound with their assault bolters, regenning 10 gaunts a turn.

You mean Bolt Pistols, that's what Fleshborers are. Also rerolling to Wound of 1 is all you can do, if there's 20+ models. Reroll to hit of 1 requires a 250pt Tervigon. Malanthrope is 90pts. You're talking about 120pt squads of 30 with 340pts of support.

 

You're honestly saying that compares to a 20pt Platoon Commander, 31pt Commissar and 50 dudes for 150pts? That's 211pts. That's half.

Malenthropes give them a -1 to be hit, Tervigon can replenish 10 per Tervigon, plus can give one unit a 5+++, and a Tervigon has an assault 4 heavy Bolter + a Str 7 AP -3 d6 damage melee weapon, plus on a 6 it deals an additional wound...

 

If I was a 'nid player, I'd be running mad Tervigons, fleshborer gaunts and then a malentrhope or two. Basically play the Conscripts game, throwing out more wounds than you can kill...

[Tirak]

The trick is you run half fleshboarer and half devourer. That way you can just take the fleshboarers as casualties and replenish them every turn. It's remarkably brutal to deal with. Once the nid codex buffs come out in two weeks it's going to get downright ugly.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Devogaunts are 8pts per model, almost 3 Conscripts each. You're only making your example more expensive which goes against you.

[dakkamasta]

 

 

You clearly have not fought nids with malenthrope support that bring floods of gaunts that reroll to both hit and wound with their assault bolters, regenning 10 gaunts a turn.

You mean Bolt Pistols, that's what Fleshborers are. Also rerolling to Wound of 1 is all you can do, if there's 20+ models. Reroll to hit of 1 requires a 250pt Tervigon. Malanthrope is 90pts. You're talking about 120pt squads of 30 with 340pts of support.

 

You're honestly saying that compares to a 20pt Platoon Commander, 31pt Commissar and 50 dudes for 150pts? That's 211pts. That's half.

Malenthropes give them a -1 to be hit, Tervigon can replenish 10 per Tervigon, plus can give one unit a 5+++, and a Tervigon has an assault 4 heavy Bolter + a Str 7 AP -3 d6 damage melee weapon, plus on a 6 it deals an additional wound...

 

If I was a 'nid player, I'd be running mad Tervigons, fleshborer gaunts and then a malentrhope or two. Basically play the Conscripts game, throwing out more wounds than you can kill...

 

 

Yes Malanthropes are great no argument there, but TERVIGONS? Not to sound rude but have a look at the Tyranid Index. The Tervigon is 250 points of useless biomass. It's hopeless in combat, hopeless at shooting, to big to hide, slow, dies just as easily to anti-tank/monster fire as a Russ, and when it dies it kills nearby gaunts. If you faced a Tyranid player running more than 1 of them (actually even 1 is bad, I own 2 and have never run them in 8th) you should thank your lucky stars that player didn't spend those points on 60 more gaunts, or 30 with devourers. 

 

As for the commissar nerf, I was really pissed at first and I still think it needs to be changed so that the execution is not compulsory (I mean why would you kill a guy to a reroll a 1 or a 2?), I think people are complaining too much. Yes the main reason for the nerf is because of Imperial Soup lists but what is the solution? Forbid allies altogether? There's no other way to fix that problem without screwing over every other faction's potential to utilise allies. Our codex is so strong that even with this nerf people have already found multiple ways to keep conscripts viable, it just takes a little bit more thought now:

 

1. Take a Valhallan patrol detachment of a Company Commander with the pistol relic and Valhallan conscripts. There you now have a commissar that can also issue orders.

 

2. Stack leadership buffs via Catachan/Mordian/Valhallan with regimental standards. 

 

3. Inquisitors.

 

4. Draconian Discipline.

 

Yes I understand that none of these methods are equally as effective as the old commissar without dedicating points, CP, relics etc. but we're talking about 3 point models here guys. It's not the end of the world considering our entire codex is downright fantastic from cover to cover.

[Tirak]

 

 

 

You clearly have not fought nids with malenthrope support that bring floods of gaunts that reroll to both hit and wound with their assault bolters, regenning 10 gaunts a turn.

You mean Bolt Pistols, that's what Fleshborers are. Also rerolling to Wound of 1 is all you can do, if there's 20+ models. Reroll to hit of 1 requires a 250pt Tervigon. Malanthrope is 90pts. You're talking about 120pt squads of 30 with 340pts of support.

 

You're honestly saying that compares to a 20pt Platoon Commander, 31pt Commissar and 50 dudes for 150pts? That's 211pts. That's half.

Malenthropes give them a -1 to be hit, Tervigon can replenish 10 per Tervigon, plus can give one unit a 5+++, and a Tervigon has an assault 4 heavy Bolter + a Str 7 AP -3 d6 damage melee weapon, plus on a 6 it deals an additional wound...

 

If I was a 'nid player, I'd be running mad Tervigons, fleshborer gaunts and then a malentrhope or two. Basically play the Conscripts game, throwing out more wounds than you can kill...

 

 

Yes Malanthropes are great no argument there, but TERVIGONS? Not to sound rude but have a look at the Tyranid Index. The Tervigon is 250 points of useless biomass. It's hopeless in combat, hopeless at shooting, to big to hide, slow, dies just as easily to anti-tank/monster fire as a Russ, and when it dies it kills nearby gaunts. If you faced a Tyranid player running more than 1 of them (actually even 1 is bad, I own 2 and have never run them in 8th) you should thank your lucky stars that player didn't spend those points on 60 more gaunts, or 30 with devourers. 

 

 

He liked to run two of them at a time behind a hoard of 90 gaunts. He split his gaunts half with fleshboarers half with devourers and then charged up the field at you, regenerating the gaunts every turn. If you ignored the gaunts, they'd swarm over you and you'd find yourself without infantry support and having your tanks charged. With Malenthropes and a guard army Ballistic Skill, they were surprisingly resilient to fire and could absolutely demolish full blobs of conscripts.  It was truly a sight to behold, however when it came to taking out those tanks, he didn't have much of an answer, which led him to change his style up. With that said, having witnessed first hand how powerful that force was in the anti infantry role, no one is going to ever try to tell me that a guard Conscript hoard is better than nids. Without an armored backbone, conscripts melt under the amount of hoard firepower the nids can put out.

[duz_]

Last time I checked we were in the Barracks and this was a FAQ thread.

Not a smelly bug hive for comparing brave white stripes to cockroaches.

[Spyboy]

@dakkamasta

 

Option 5, astropath using the immune to morale psychic power.

[elmo]

As Duz_ has already mentioned... If you wish to discuss foul Xenos scum then move the conversation to the Xenos forum where their presence is welcome.

 

This is The Emperors holy Astra Militarum forum - you would not like the Commissariat to have to pay you special attention would you?

Sounds of bolt pistols being made ready and power swords igniting....

Edited October 26, 2017 by elmo

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Click click bang lol

[CoffeeGrunt]

Apologies, I was just using it as an example of how Conscripts are still very good, as proven by the fact that the only better option another army has requires 590pts of support and costs 8pts per model to do better.

[FallenSoldiers]

They did bold font to the types of units it applies to (basilisk, manticore... etc) since they are also Keywords in the Codex. Everything else that’s a keyword is in bold font I believe.

[Altasmurf]

Yep just bolding of the keywords

[CoffeeGrunt]

Same with the Aerial Spotter FAQ, they just bolded BASILISK and WYVERN.

[Zectz]

There is a difference and before it wasn't a keyword, it just referenced the specific Basilisk & Wyvern units in the codex.

 

Now it references the keywords, so the stratagem can be applied to the forge world variant Armageddon Basilisk for example.