Using support tanks vs. bringing more guns

[Khornestar]

I'm curious what you all think about using support tanks such as the Salamander Command Vehicle (+1 to hit for a single vehicle) Trojan Support Vehicle (re-roll hits for a single vehicle) vs. simply spending those points on extra guns.

 

When do you think it's worth it? Is it worth bringing one of each for each superheavy tank you bring? Only one? Neither?

 

For reference, it's 100 points for the Salamander, 98 for the Trojan. Neither are cheap...

 

Maybe just the Salamander, if I'm running Catachans and bring Harker.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Juggernut

[Sword_Brother]

I have kitbashed both these vehicles, however I rarely use them outside the big matches. If you are going to use one, I highly suggest buffing a superheavy with it. Do not waste it on anything small like a Leman Russ. Could be useful on a Deathstrike too, but even that is a stretch. 

I've used mine most often with my Macharius Vulcan, and that plus a Trojan is just amazing. In one turn of shooting eliminating 7 bikers. 

[Khornestar]

Cool, the Vulcan was one of two tanks I was considering them for. The other is the Stormhammer, which is now slightly less impressive with the buffs to Leman Russes.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I don't like "eggs in one basket" strategies where you pick a big unit, buff it up then try and get it to carry the game for you. IMO paying 100pts for +1 to Hit is a hell of a premium.

[Halfpint100]

We play the guard. More guns is always better

[Mitchverr]

I can see them being useful for helping to bring damaged tanks to a better standard or pairing with a super heavy, but sadly they are simply way to expencive for what they do right now, especially given their own lack of weapons. I have toyed around with bringing a single support vehicle, but that was because the list i had made had the points to add the salamander command, not because I wanted it from the beginning.

 

Outside of the superheavy, your better off just making multiple leman russes into command tanks or hellhounds, tauros/venators etc.

[Khornestar]

Thanks, all. More or less as I suspected. I think I'll convert the beat-up Chimera chassis I have into a Salamander and just sell all my unbuilt Chimeras. 

[hhhdan]

well, there is one combo that is still valid:

 

The stormtrooper doctrine stormlord buffed with a salamander and trojan. You will get 120% hit rate on average, which is hilarious, but a HUGE point sink.

[Halfpint100]

I really hope that isnt the case with the stormlord. each 6 isnt another shot, the gun is fired again! each 6 would be that vulcan bolter fired again! I don't think that is possible.

[Beams]

I really hope that isnt the case with the stormlord. each 6 isnt another shot, the gun is fired again! each 6 would be that vulcan bolter fired again! I don't think that is possible.

Your confusing the Storm trooper doctrine (6's are an extra shot with the same weapon) and the mordoan strategem (6+'s allow infantry to shoot again)

[Halfpint100]

 

I really hope that isnt the case with the stormlord. each 6 isnt another shot, the gun is fired again! each 6 would be that vulcan bolter fired again! I don't think that is possible.

Your confusing the Storm trooper doctrine (6's are an extra shot with the same weapon) and the mordoan strategem (6+'s allow infantry to shoot again)

 

Ah my bad

[Withershadow]

Thanks, all. More or less as I suspected. I think I'll convert the beat-up Chimera chassis I have into a Salamander and just sell all my unbuilt Chimeras. 

Seems a bit of an over-reaction.  Chimeras can still do good work depending on Regiment.  The double-flamer Chimera with Catachans is quite scary up close, whereas the Tallarn can either bring triple heavy bolter or heavy bolter/autocannon Chimeras which can contribute a good amount of fire.  You can even leave a commander inside now during the money turn to keep him safe, and use the stratagem to allow him to still issue orders.  He can even fire all 6 lasguns of the lasgun arrays by himself.

 

Now it depends what you put in the Chimeras.  My favorite thing are Krieg Engineers with Yarrick, but special weapon squads can also work well here (again, either Catachans with re-rollable flamers, or Tallarn with no penalty for advancing and firing flamers/meltas).  Other Regiments are probably better off coughing up another 40 points or so and getting a Valkyrie.

[mertbl]

I use the salamander to buff my manticore. It seems to pay for itself but I've never tracked points to see if it really does. The heavy bolter and heavy flamer give it something to do as well, packing along a HK missile

[Khornestar]

 

Thanks, all. More or less as I suspected. I think I'll convert the beat-up Chimera chassis I have into a Salamander and just sell all my unbuilt Chimeras.

 

Seems a bit of an over-reaction.  Chimeras can still do good work depending on Regiment.  The double-flamer Chimera with Catachans is quite scary up close, whereas the Tallarn can either bring triple heavy bolter or heavy bolter/autocannon Chimeras which can contribute a good amount of fire.  You can even leave a commander inside now during the money turn to keep him safe, and use the stratagem to allow him to still issue orders.  He can even fire all 6 lasguns of the lasgun arrays by himself.

 

Now it depends what you put in the Chimeras.  My favorite thing are Krieg Engineers with Yarrick, but special weapon squads can also work well here (again, either Catachans with re-rollable flamers, or Tallarn with no penalty for advancing and firing flamers/meltas).  Other Regiments are probably better off coughing up another 40 points or so and getting a Valkyrie.

I don’t totally disagree, but I really don’t like chimeras all that much so I was trying to find a different use for them. Even then, I’d rather bring more bodies or valkyries as my transport of choice.

 

That being said, even at a deep discount I’m barely getting any offers for them, so I may end up holding onto them in case Chapter Approved improves them in any meaningful way.

[Feral_80]

The only case in which a Trojan/Salamander CV are worth it are when you field a super-heavy tank (and with all 4 sponsons, I'd say). 

In all other cases, just throw in another Basilisk or so.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Feral_80

[noigrim]

Since the actual meta is horde heavy you're better off always with an extra punisher, whic can also take meltas and a laser for antitank

 

Those 30+ stealers are a problem?