Destroyers- yay or nay

[Prot]

What do you guys think?

 

So far I’m unconvinced. I prefer a Brigade and fitting them into troops has made it very difficult to fit the better items in my Mars games.

 

I know some people are huge fans. What’s your take?

[DoomulusPrime]

I'm still gunna use mine, they'll make a good bodyguard unit for Cawl. With Shroudpsalm and Cawl nearby, I still feel like they're durable and accurate enough to make anyone approaching Cawl think twice.

[Redtoof]

Yay from me. They aren't great but I like them. Stick em in cover near some shooty robots and make use of the stratagem. Bonus points if you had the nerve to paint them orange and give them plasma.

[synthaside]

Long-time lurker but the first time I’ve felt strongly enough about an issue to register and post, apologies Incoming WALL of text.

I’m definitely not convinced by destroyers,  > 210 points is a lot  In terms of the cost of that unit you can fill an entire troop section for your 2nd battalion,  3 more squads of Vanguard toting plasma. Statistically, the destroyers do a lot of damage but this provides you expect them to go unmolested.  Every time I've fielded them they have been a priority target for my opponents.   Either shot off the table T1 or at the very least locked down by Vehicle ram all game.

Bottom line unless you hide them right at the back in cover out of LOS and thus away from your re-roll auras to try some kind of a pop out attack using heavy battle servitor. ( IMO this is a trap they should just have bs3+ and suffer -1 to move at least you have the option)   They just aren’t survivable enough 3 wounds with a 4 up save T5, perfect for assault cannons, (my opponents love razorbacks).

If it is for actual punch at, the cost I’d much rather take another  2 squads or a 10 blob of goad infiltrators, (new fave wrath of mars buff target 50 dice is a whole lotta 6's )  They will live past my opponent getting first turn 1 by virtue of not being not on the field.   Hell, even the 3 aforementioned vanguard squads have the same save, 6 more wounds and due to the nature of them being multiple squads are harder to kill.

That’s before you factor in keeping them alive all that time to watch them fumble out  3 shots hitting on 4’s  >.<.

If they were BS3+ they would be better , if they had the 3+ save I could see it too but just because we have a lot of bad units we need to take a pass on ( im looking at you breachers and once beloved rust-stalkers) it doesn't make this one worthwhile.

Edited October 26, 2017 by synthaside

[Frostglaive]

I loved Destroyers back in 7th. Heavy Grav cannons were absolute monsters on the table, especially in my local metas where Space Marines ran supreme (I never ran the Plasma cannons)

 

Now..... I'll still use them occasionally. I think Synthaside said it rather well. You can get more Vanguard or Tasertrators for the same cost, have them survive just a bit longer, and hit more often than not. They're still a fun unit to play every so often. There just happens to be better things out there than Destroyers.

[Thorakitai]

I've had some decent luck using grav destroyers in 1750+ point games (starting because I left most of my vanguard at home, and needed the 3rd troop choice for a battalion) against armies without a heavy shooting focus, or where enemy shooting is neutered by the scenario somehow. When there are other threats to deal with, they have a chance of going unmolested for 2 or 3 turns, and with some luck and/or Cawl can do some decent damage. I would never use them in small or truly competitive games though, too many better choices.

[Vel'Cona]

@synthaside, welcome to the forums!

 

I feel like Destroyers haven't really seen the transition to 8th well because of a few factors.  Notably:

 

- Very expensive.  Not Devastator Centurion ridiculous, but still very high for what they do.

- Both primary weapons have significant downsides; HGC are really only good for murdering multi-wound Marines (read: Primaris, Termies, etc.) and Necrons, I guess.  PCulverin are strong but can be pretty risky on 3 Wound models.  Both make Destroyers even more crazy expensive.

- Suck in melee.

- Surprisingly squishy; 3 Wounds is nice and all but 4+ Save is piddly.  They should probably have been buffed to 3+ and given the Breachers 2+; at this point cost, that wouldn't be OP at all.

- Pretty slow, though being able to teleport/infiltrate can help

[Yoda79]

210 points I could field 2 more robots . Why on Earth I would field and easy 210 kill to my enemy? 200 points cost a full battalion of guard that provide 38 wounds screener with 5+/5+ cp regain +3 cp default. And most likely a +++ shots from lasguns. Why would I ever not field a Celestine with a geminae for. Destroyers squad. And if you love plasma why I would even not field a Russ full of plasma or a full commander 2* plasma drops 160 points for a 3d6 shots??? Why every single comparison with this crap troops is bad really bad. Bs 4 d6??? Why is this crap even exists. Even if it goes 2d6 I won't take them cause t5 is an autokill from many guns. Every single game I played them from 7th till 8th the same. A random pistol shot kills them and I loose a Celestine/Russ points from lasguns. Won't happen again . And if you don't believe me there is a video ad mech+iron hands v wolf's the poor guy picks breachers and torsion go see with better armor and canticle here did his points go first round. And put destroyers there that's what will happen .

 

Nay nay nay. 3 stygia dragoons s 204 points will make your opponent cry. 3* earthshkers 2* robots 2*5 snipers with omnispex tons more options than this crap.

[synthaside]

Thanks, Vel'cona,  I think a 2+  on the breachers might be a little bit strong for the breachers they arent terminators ... Perhaps make them both 3+  and give the breachers a 6+ FNP or something to compensate for the fact that they are supposedly super heavy on the armour front, I'd consider running breachers for that cost. 

I was very surprised when death company possess and last night passed a bunch of FNP against my wrath of Mars shooting.
Didnt help them much in the long term mind the taser goads came next ;-) .

Not sure how to fix the 4 possible weapons for kataphrons  to be honest .....  I think its just the base Bs that makes them so bad ... 

[Charlo]

I like 'em. I pop them behind an aegis near Cawl for maximum power or for when you don't want/ can't use shroudpsalm.

 

They do decent damage and look hella cool.

[Feral_80]

I don't like them, and don't use them. Breachers are better and much more affordable.

The Mars robots + destroyers stratagem is not worth it, as it is simply overkill 90% of the times.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Feral_80

[CombatVet]

Long-time lurker but the first time I’ve felt strongly enough about an issue to register and post, apologies Incoming WALL of text.

 

I’m definitely not convinced by destroyers, > 210 points is a lot In terms of the cost of that unit you can fill an entire troop section for your 2nd battalion, 3 more squads of Vanguard toting plasma. Statistically, the destroyers do a lot of damage but this provides you expect them to go unmolested. Every time I've fielded them they have been a priority target for my opponents. Either shot off the table T1 or at the very least locked down by Vehicle ram all game.

 

Bottom line unless you hide them right at the back in cover out of LOS and thus away from your re-roll auras to try some kind of a pop out attack using heavy battle servitor. ( IMO this is a trap they should just have bs3+ and suffer -1 to move at least you have the option) They just aren’t survivable enough 3 wounds with a 4 up save T5, perfect for assault cannons, (my opponents love razorbacks).

 

If it is for actual punch at, the cost I’d much rather take another 2 squads or a 10 blob of goad infiltrators, (new fave wrath of mars buff target 50 dice is a whole lotta 6's ) They will live past my opponent getting first turn 1 by virtue of not being not on the field. Hell, even the 3 aforementioned vanguard squads have the same save, 6 more wounds and due to the nature of them being multiple squads are harder to kill.

 

That’s before you factor in keeping them alive all that time to watch them fumble out 3 shots hitting on 4’s >.<.

 

If they were BS3+ they would be better , if they had the 3+ save I could see it too but just because we have a lot of bad units we need to take a pass on ( im looking at you breachers and once beloved rust-stalkers) it doesn't make this one worthwhile.

Well said Sir, my thoughts exactly.

[Prot]

Well I’m considering them for my next game just for variety.

 

For context I will be using Cawl for the first time since I stopped using the Index list. There will be 3 Kastelans and 2 units of Rangers for the base. So would you suggest 3 plasma Destroyers or the Grav variant.

[synthaside]

Im taking breachers next game,  I understand im facing Deathwing so my anti deep strike troop line needs to be a whole lot tougher than  normal.

Vanguard or rangers screen are just going to die to storm bolter fire .

Edited November 11, 2017 by synthaside

[Withershadow]

They are what, 75 points or so with a grav cannon?  Pretty good return on your investment, all things considered.  I think the Elimination protocol stratagem makes it worthwhile to include at least one unit if you're running the typical Kastelan block as well.

 

I'm actually trying to see if I can reconfigure my Breachers to be Destroyers instead, because I think they are potentially even less useful.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Withershadow