Militarum Tempestus in 8th

[Altasmurf]

So last night I had a close 50 power level win vs a primaris space marine army using good old storm troopers. One of the complaints from last codex was the lack if orders and support.

 

Well with new detachment system and command rods, both those issues were fixed. The question is would it make up for the lack of options.

 

The answere is yes and no.

 

Some of the supporting I tried were ogryn bodyguard,MoO, OoF, and psykers. These units deffinatly helped no one will accuse you of being top tier. However playing character supported storm troopers was a blast and I felt way more competitive then last edition. The best part was I felt like I was playing a storm trooper army with support instead of some sort of ham fisted guard mix. So I'll for sure be trying more games with these guys.

[duz_]

Was it a convincing win? 
I imagine the AP bonus really helped against the Primaris, how did the lack of range go?

[Altasmurf]

It was not a convincing win, I didn't have much left at the end. However I will say I expended a lot of resources in order to use the psychic power "dominate" to have his captain swing his powerfist at his lieutenant. Great for a laugh, but cost a lot in actual resources. The list itself was also not a killer list as I was trying out multiple different units.

 

Honestly the lack of range hampered me. We were playing cities of death. my opponent was more then happy to always try and keep me at arms length, which is easier if you're primaris. I can count the number of times I rapid fired a hot shot lasgun on one hand if it only had 3 fingers. it was my special weapons that did the heavy lifting. But that brings me to one of my disappointments in 8th; plasmaguns. Plasmagun pretty much synergize with everything and deal with everything. While I had a mix of meltas, volley guns, and plasmas, the plasma did the majority of the work. The other weapons were good, but plasma was just better.

[Silas7]

Sad as I was hoping you'd say it was the volleys that did work. I guess plasma is still king and only got better with GW adding a low power shot setting, almost fully negating the drawback of plasma that's suppose to be hard baked into the weapon to counter its universal utility.

[Major_Gilbear]

I think in a game where plasma is the ultimate utility weapon against power armoured forces, and where 50%+ of the armies are power armoured forces, plasma will always be king. The only time I remember that being any different was in mid-late 5E, where meltaguns were vital to combat massed vehicles.

 

It's interesting that the terrain didn't help you though, as I would have thought it would help maximise the effectiveness of the high ratio of special weapons that Tempestus can bring to bear.

[ashc]

I would be interested in seeing what you ran with your MT, I'm thinking about using them as the bulk of an =][= force and have got a start collecting box itching to be prepped.

[Altasmurf]

@ Silas7

The volleys were good, but when you move the -1 to hit prevents the doctrine from triggering, where as plasma doesn't have that issue.

 

@ Major_Gilbear

As long as plasma is so versitiale it will always be the best special weapon.

 

As for the terrain, both primaris and storm troopers prefer a short range engagement, so while I was bringing my special weapons to bear I was also in his preferred range band.

 

@ ashc

 

My list was more experimental but it was

 

2 x Tempestus Prime

4 x scion squads

1 x scion command squad

1 x priest

1 x primaris psykers

1 x astropath

1 x MoO

1 x OoF

1 x ogryns bodyguard

1 x inquisitor

1 x taurox prime (dakka style)

1 x valkyrie

 

But for a core I say taurox primes are probably a key fire and tactical support unit.

[NatBrannigan]

Ugh, Plasma...

 

It's one of my main gripes as well! Whenever you ask for advice on how to deal with any unit, the answer is either Deep striking Scions with Plasma Guns or Command Squads with Plasma Guns.

 

I like a Volley Gun myself as well, and normally wouldn't get the Doctrine because my Scions are part of a Mordian Brigade to fill out some troops choices. Not the best choice but it's worth taking by virtue of not being yet another Plasma gun!

 

I'm really hoping that an Inquisition code comes out soon. Probably as part of an Imperial Agents codex and that's just fine with me! At the moment they're just not good, and that makes me very sad. They just need a little boost so taking Inquisition units isn't a downright handicap. Scions are great though, glad you're enjoying them :)

[micahwc]

My answer on how to assassinate a high priority target turn 1 with guard. Deep striking scions with plasma (or melta if its a really hard target).

My answer on how to assassinate a high priority target turn 1 with Heretic Astartes? Deep Striking Alpha Legion with plasma (or melta if it's a really hard target).

 

As long as we have models with good BS, access to plasma/melta guns, and the ability to deep strike turn 1, this will always be a good tactic. The decent thing about this is that most armies have access to it or something like it.

[Altasmurf]

@ Micahwc

 

Does your opponent not screen or protect his value assets. I know when I play guard my opponents can't even get within 24" of my important stuff let alone 12". Same with my opponents, I need to blast a hole in my opponents defense before I can mail a priority target, so usually I need to jump in turn 2 or 3. It's why instead of scions I just use artillery.

[Silas7]

@ Silas7

The volleys were good, but when you move the -1 to hit prevents the doctrine from triggering, where as plasma doesn't have that issue.

 

 

Ah my mind has been wrapped up in other things that I never considered the heavy weapon movement penalty preventing sixes. That's a downer.

[Guardsman Bob]

I like a Volley Gun myself as well, and normally wouldn't get the Doctrine because my Scions are part of a Mordian Brigade to fill out some troops choices. Not the best choice but it's worth taking by virtue of not being yet another Plasma gun!

It really baffles me they didn’t make it an assault weapon. A weaker version of the Assault Cannon. It passes both the fluff and game mechanic tests.

[Frater Cornelius]

What Orders did you primarily use?

[Altasmurf]

What Orders did you primarily use?

Primarily take aim. I did use forwards for the emperor a couple times.

 

Take aim is just such a powerful order especially when paired with plasma guns that do the heavy lifting. The sort range of the hellguns just makes frsr kind of blah. In a game with normal guard frsr is a staple but for stormies I find it situational at best.

[librisrouge]

Has anybody tried pure infantry MT in 8th edition? I'm seriously contemplating it, since the Taurox prime is rather soft and costs as much as a whole squad of scions. Makes me wonder if I'd just be better off getting more men.

[Altasmurf]

I haven't found them to be that soft, but so far every list I've used them in either has a leman russ or valkryie.

 

Also the prime does bring some important things to your list.

 

1. Limits drops. Going first for scions is nice.

 

2. Provides either long range fire support or the best anti infantry bang for your buck. Both things a basic scion squad can't do.

 

3. Mobility past your first drop. Personally i have never found dropping scions all that effective. Unless you opponent is play hyper elite he will keep your scions pushed back with an anti deepstrike bubble.

 

I find the prime to be probably the best tool in the tool box for scions, not taking them is deffinatly handicapping your list.

[momerathe]

How do people feel about air-mobile scions? It seems that grav-chutes are just the ticket to get hot-shots into rapid fire range.

[Tirak]

How do people feel about air-mobile scions? It seems that grav-chutes are just the ticket to get hot-shots into rapid fire range.

Seems a bit of a waste honestly, you can already deepstrike scions into rapid fire range, so no need to spend 130 points on a transport.

[Altasmurf]

You can only deepstrike scions to get plasma guns into rapid fire range. You're to far to take advantage of melta and hotshot lasguns.

 

I personally don't mind the valk in a scion list. It provides some good anti infantry and does help to get melta guns where they need to be. It also allows you to get to spots that normal deepstrike might not allow because you get your move after.

 

I would not put all my squads into them, but I wouldn't hesitate to use one or 2. They also help to take heat off of your taurox, and limit drops for first turn.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Altasmurf

[momerathe]

well, my problem is that I can't get behind the taurox's model, and there aren't very many other choices that allow you to keep the regiment doctrine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

just a shame the vendetta didn't get the roving gunship rule..

[Tirak]

I'm a little confused, why do you need transports with scions? You're fast and mobile like the rest of the guard, and you can deepstrike, I don't see why you want to complicate things with expensive transports that actually don't provide much mobility compared to move move move or forwards for the emperor.

[duz_]

The transports particularly the Valk help get your melta guns into 6" range

[Altasmurf]

@Tirak

 

For a normal guard army with scion support I agree, for straight up scions I disagree.

 

First both transports bring excellent anti infantry fire power that the scions struggle to bring.

 

Second deep striking stormies versus any competent opponent is wasteful as you will only kill what your opponent let's you. My guard army easily pushes deep strikers back at least 30" from my important targets.

 

Third those orders are excellent but they can lessen your fire power which is pretty key.

[Tirak]

I'd rather take Vultures with Punishers to fill my anti infantry role than clutter the field with poorly armored Taurox Primes, but I have been known to go very flyer heavy.

[Altasmurf]

That makes sense. We don't utilize forge world here. Mostly due to lack of our group having it. Yes the vulture will bring anti infantry in spades so there is much less need for taurox primes.

 

Also one of the other reason I utilize transports is that I also add support characters and they need to get around the field.