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Please, let common sense prevail against the rules-derp, and don't cut up your finished models! :smile.:

 

Agreed, as long as it's not clearly converting for advantage I have no problem with someone saying one wargear is the other on a fully painted mini, assuming they make it clear what it is the model has when they plop it on the table.  FWIW, I list optional wargear when I deploy a unit and if there's ANYTHING non-standard about the unit in question I make a point to address it.  Some opponents ignore the details but the capable ones appreciate the thoroughness :)

For friendly games for sure, but by the rules as of right now it is not allowed. I do think it will get faq' d sooner then later. Even if you can do it it could be worth it if you think you would be spreading out and you have some points to spare. Personally i might take them just cause their fluffy.

Technically, no Storm Trooper models were released with Vox packs (that I know of), at least until the Scions set; and that set has the model shown with a laspistol because it's holding the handset in the other hand.

 

Compare that to the other metal models and plastic kits in which there are Vox models, and you'll see that where they are holding a weapon, they all have lasguns rather than laspistols.

 

That's why the Vox pack is a straight upgrade to all models except the Scions, which have to trade out the rifle for a pistol as part of the upgrade. This is a perfect example of GW following the released minis, rather than following common sense, and as such I don't expect it to get an errata (although it would be nice if it did!).

 

All that said, it isn't exactly broken or overpowered one way or the other, and the Scions have all paid for their rifles in the base points anyway, so I personally encourage any Scions or Storm Troopers that people have already modelled with rifles to be used as such. Besides, GW may change its decision again in future, and cutting up finished models for something so trivial seems unnecessarily petty to me.

Back to Scions in general, I've flip-flopped quite a bit on them lately as from index-to-codex my initial thoughts were "meh" given the iffy Doctrines/Strategem.  The price hikes didn't help, either, but having easily splashable BS 3+ Infantry that come with built-in "deep strike" is actually a powerful tool for filling out a Battalion detachment.  Even if you disregard the other elements, Scions offer flexibility and vectored roles (anti-armour, anti-MEQ, etc.) and are a pricier but more dangerous alternative to Infantry Squads.  I'll be trying x5 w/ 2 PG as "closer" units for damaged hard targets, as well as x10 w/ x4 HsVG for hold-off firepower vs. MEQ.

I love their flexibility, and enjoy using Valkyries and Tauroxes, but part of me wonders if you are wasting their deep strike ability by giving them transports?

 

I think the big advantage to the transport is being able to disembark and close to Rapid Fire double-tap range with the HsL, esp. under FRFSRF.  Deep striking means they'll lose a shot regardless of how you set them up (> 9" from opponents).  This is also nice to get in half-range for Meltaguns, too.

Technically, no Storm Trooper models were released with Vox packs (that I know of), at least until the Scions set; and that set has the model shown with a laspistol because it's holding the handset in the other hand.

 

Compare that to the other metal models and plastic kits in which there are Vox models, and you'll see that where they are holding a weapon, they all have lasguns rather than laspistols.

 

That's why the Vox pack is a straight upgrade to all models except the Scions, which have to trade out the rifle for a pistol as part of the upgrade. This is a perfect example of GW following the released minis, rather than following common sense, and as such I don't expect it to get an errata (although it would be nice if it did!).

 

All that said, it isn't exactly broken or overpowered one way or the other, and the Scions have all paid for their rifles in the base points anyway, so I personally encourage any Scions or Storm Troopers that people have already modelled with rifles to be used as such. Besides, GW may change its decision again in future, and cutting up finished models for something so trivial seems unnecessarily petty to me.

GW did sort of address this once, in the Index FAQ, but they only covered Scion command squads and forgot about the regular Scions.  Now that the codex is out and they didn't mention this at all in the codex FAQ, I have no idea.

I suspect this is a silly question, but do you think it's possible to build a decent MT list without using vehicles?

Volley guns for firebases, and deep strike everything else... It definitely has potential. It might not be Uber competitive but you could do decent I suppose, with psychic support and using cover.

So, question. Does anyone ever use a command squad as an old-school command squad - i.e. medkit, banner and vox?

 

It's kind of a shame really - they're so much better as a special weapons squad that these fluffy options will unlikely see the table, especially now we're limited in the number of squads we can take. In the SM codex or Sisters' index the medkit and banner equivalents are individual character models, at least, so you can sprinkle them into your army as you want.

So, question. Does anyone ever use a command squad as an old-school command squad - i.e. medkit, banner and vox?

 

For a MT Command Squad? Absolutely not. I would basically be deep-striking in a squad for the express purpose of doing bugger-all.

 

For a regular Command Squad? I can see myself taking a banner but I don't use Voxes and Medics appear nothing short of abysmal. Shame really, because I happen to own a rather nice medic model. :ermm:

Its about the opportunity cost and that you need a receiver so instead of them being 5pts they really are 10+ and your missing a special in the command squad. You could just opt for more junior officers/tempestor primes instead, but I'd still take them just because I like the idea of a radio net for my infantry but i would pass for MT squads. Edited by Silas7

Why don’t people like taking vox casters this edition? Isot that Primes and Commanders are always that close to squads, or are the vox casters too much for their cost? I see their benefits, especially to keep DS Scions in range of orders; maybe I’m missing the benefit of not having them.

 

I can kinda see the benefits with Scions, since they frequently play the MSU game and can probably benefit from spreading out (might also help keep Primes safe, should you want to).

 

However, with my other squads, I just make sure that I have enough officers to spread around where needed. The cost of Vox casters adds up quickly, and I'd rather just put those points towards more officers. 

 

It probably doesn't help that many squads on which they might be more useful (SWSs, HWSs etc.) can't take them at all.

On Voxes

 

Eh commanders are cheap and often filling slots gets you more command points. Honestly the detachment system sucks the creativity out of list building. Now a days you just spam.

 

On command squads

 

Their just a better vehicle for special weapons. And really voxes and medics aren't really worth it. Banners have a place and a 3 volleygun banner squad might be ok... it's just asking to be killed though .

I use quartermasters with my Krieg, and the medipack actually hasn't been bad, so I was inspired to run a medic for the command squad accompanying my special weapons squads.  I only ran it once, but ironically my opponent didn't focus on the command squad immediately because they only had two special weapons, so I was able to respawn two special weapon guys in the accompanying squads.  If they did shoot the command squad first, I would have lost a guy with a 5-point upgrade, rather than a more expensive special weapon.  I don't know, it felt alright overall.

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