Raven Guard situation in Dark Millennium setting?

[Daemon2027]

Hi guys, have a fluff question for you all, I’m trying to build a successor chapter but don’t really no much about the new background.

 

What’s happened to Raven Guard in the current background? From what I remember Deliverance was in the path of a large Ork Waaagh. Did this happen, or get resolved, or ha sit just been forgotten? I also looked on one of the newer maps galactic maps and couldn’t find Deliverance, does it still exist?

[Race Bannon]

Deliverance exists, it's just not listed.  There are lots of other Chapters that have been "seen" on the previous that are not in the most recent ^_^  Some Chapters are known to currently exists yet have never been seen on maps: Raptors Chapter is first to mind in that regard.

[deathspectersgt7]

Hi guys, have a fluff question for you all, I’m trying to build a successor chapter but don’t really no much about the new background.

 

What’s happened to Raven Guard in the current background? From what I remember Deliverance was in the path of a large Ork Waaagh. Did this happen, or get resolved, or ha sit just been forgotten? I also looked on one of the newer maps galactic maps and couldn’t find Deliverance, does it still exist?

FW has not done a follow up But my gaming group did 2 yrs ago . Raven Guard and Successors have pushed them back . But the Warlord Survived . 

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Deliverance is in the galactic southest (if you look at the Cicatrix Maledictum map in the core book, you can't even see us on it - we would be in the bottom right hand corner below San Leor). The Chapter just got done with a major campaign in the Damocles Gulf (most notably the Prefectia Campaign) against the Tau, where we took heavy losses including the loss of our Chapter Master - Corvin Severax (aka: Chapter Master Ready-to-die-for ages). 

 

This all took place at the same time as Abaddon's recent crusade that created the new Great Rift that divided the Imperium in half (and all the cool plot point with Bobby G and the Crew.

 

Some interesting plot points/facts:

 

• Deliverance is relatively close to Macragge - So odds are good that the Chapter is very aware of the Indomitus Crusade - on a more direct/personal level. I expect that once all the new codices drop and GW is ready to advance the story forward - we will have an above-average role to play.
• Multiple accounts of recent fluff/fiction have had us on a more cooperative-level with the Ultramarines. Some early 8th Edition marketing items even had Raven Guard heraldry alongside Ultramarine heraldry.
• The Rift Stalkers are an all-Primaris successor that is fleet based and patrolling the Cicatrix Maledictum. Given the Raven Guard nature, it would be hard to believe that their parent chapter has not had some form of contact and communication with them regarding the galactic climate.
• Heavy losses and a dead Chapter Master more than likely means a defensive slow burn for the chapter as a whole in the near future. That being said, Necrons, Tau, and Orks are the principal threats to the galactic south-east, and you could expect that being a constant point of violence.

 

 

[Daemon2027]

Ok thanks guys, I thought it probably wasn’t really followed up. Looking at the new and old map I think Deliverance would be on the good side of the warp scar, not that the darkness would phase the RG.

 

I want my successor to have a history of fighting Orks so I can base them in the battle against Waaagh whatever. There going to be mostly Primaris but we’re founded by a former Librarian who served with distinction against the Orks. I rolled on the Death Watch space marine chapter creation tables to fill out some of the details, but want to turn it into a proper narrative.

 

Ityviper, Just Read your response, some great info that backs up what I’m thinking of doing. The Rift Stalkers sounds similar to what I want to do and have a great name but I’ll come up with my own still.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Daemon2027

[thewarriorhunter]

You've a lot of options make it your own! The other thing to keep in mind is that the galaxy is freaking huge! - you can do whatever you want, really.

 

My RG army is on the world of Baran fighting an Aeldari force. I pulled an old piece of fluff that I found and used that to forge my own narrative for my specific army. Just because the lore says a chapter is doing something in one area of the galaxy doesn't mean they have a small force doing something in another area of the galaxy.

 

The RG (and I'd imagine their successors) are known to provide misinformation and even outright lie about what they're doing so they can protect themselves and successfully carry out their mission.

[Daemon2027]

Oh yeah I plan to be quite free with their current operations, I just wanted to know what happened to the RG as being a Primaris successor I wanted to see what I could use to link them back to the founding chapter.

 

The Baran background, wasn’t that originally from Epic. It was quite a detailed campaign if I remember rightly.

[seriade]

Given the events of 7th ed wouldn't about half the chapter be on the dark side of the emperium due to being involved the the  crusade against the tau and the like?

[thewarriorhunter]

The Baran background, wasn’t that originally from Epic. It was quite a detailed campaign if I remember rightly.

 

I don't know about that. I've been in the hobby a little over a year. There's a lot of backstory and lore that I don't know about. I found a PDF with a story called Swordwind that focused on the Aeldari side of the story and ran with it.

 

I'd love to find more info on it, or any RG lore from the past. Sadly I don't have a huge backlog of White Dwarfs to thumb through or know enough about Black Library to know which books I should be reading to gain more insight on our history.

[Lemondish]

<p>

 

Deliverance is in the galactic southest (if you look at the Cicatrix Maledictum map in the core book, you can't even see us on it - we would be in the bottom right hand corner below San Leor). The Chapter just got done with a major campaign in the Damocles Gulf (most notably the Prefectia Campaign) against the Tau, where we took heavy losses including the loss of our Chapter Master - Corvin Severax (aka: Chapter Master Ready-to-die-for ages).

 

This all took place at the same time as Abaddon's recent crusade that created the new Great Rift that divided the Imperium in half (and all the cool plot point with Bobby G and the Crew.

 

Some interesting plot points/facts:

 

• Deliverance is relatively close to Macragge - So odds are good that the Chapter is very aware of the Indomitus Crusade - on a more direct/personal level. I expect that once all the new codices drop and GW is ready to advance the story forward - we will have an above-average role to play.
• Multiple accounts of recent fluff/fiction have had us on a more cooperative-level with the Ultramarines. Some early 8th Edition marketing items even had Raven Guard heraldry alongside Ultramarine heraldry.
• The Rift Stalkers are an all-Primaris successor that is fleet based and patrolling the Cicatrix Maledictum. Given the Raven Guard nature, it would be hard to believe that their parent chapter has not had some form of contact and communication with them regarding the galactic climate.
• Heavy losses and a dead Chapter Master more than likely means a defensive slow burn for the chapter as a whole in the near future. That being said, Necrons, Tau, and Orks are the principal threats to the galactic south-east, and you could expect that being a constant point of violence.

So, since Deliverance is close to Macragge, and the RG are becoming BFFs with Smurfs, wouldn't heavy losses naturally lead to potentially greater Primaris involvement for the RG? Edited October 27, 2017 by Lemondish

[thewarriorhunter]

 

So, since Deliverance is close to Macragge, and the RG are becoming BFFs with Smurfs, wouldn't heavy losses naturally lead to potentially greater Primaris involvement for the RG?

 

 

I've always understood the RG's numbers to be low due to our gene seed mutations and the issues that came about with it after the Alpha Legion screwed us over.

 

I believe GW even put a bit in the BRB or the codex (can't remember) that explicitly states the RG accepted the primaris with open arms.

[Daemon2027]

If I remember the older background, Corax and Guilliman were really close which is why they accepted the codex despite the legion possibly being the smallest by the Heresy end. I think thier relationship probably remains in the chapters and when Guilliman returns they would have no issue accepting the Primaris and joining him on his crusade.

 

I read somewhere that Shrike was now the chapter master, not sure the validity of that though.

[Claws and Effect]

Shrike is indeed the Chapter Master. He got promoted in the Damocles campaign after the previous Chapter Master was killed.

 

His stats reflect it, and all the fluff since then has acknowledged that he is the Master of Shadows mow.

[thewarriorhunter]

Shrike being a chapter master is great, IMO. Rather than paying the CP's to upgrade him you get it for free. I do feel a little bad because his stats and aura pretty much make him an auto include in my lists and I don't want to hamstring myself that way. Shrike wouldn't be at EVERY battle, so I want to try and make sure he's not in every list I make.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Shrike is interesting in that he got the Chapter Master aura, and he is priced like a Chapter Master, but he does NOT have the 2+ Save or the 6W statline like every other Chapter Master, which in my opinion is pretty stupid.

 

If he got that 2+ save I feel like he would be way more effective at wading through blobs of chaff with less fear of falling on his face in a vainglorious manner.

[thewarriorhunter]

Which is why I usually camp him near my devastators and las predator. He's too squishy to jump into the fray in most cases and is really only good for that aura bubble :(

 

I feel he either has to sit back and give rerolls or you have to get him right into CC and he has to go first otherwise he get's chewed to pieces under weight of dice.

[Claws and Effect]

Which is why I usually camp him near my devastators and las predator. He's too squishy to jump into the fray in most cases and is really only good for that aura bubble

 

I feel he either has to sit back and give rerolls or you have to get him right into CC and he has to go first otherwise he get's chewed to pieces under weight of dice.

 

The fact that his warlord trait disallows overwatch against him definitely helps get him there. Flamers? Don't care, they can't use them anyway. 

[thewarriorhunter]

 

Which is why I usually camp him near my devastators and las predator. He's too squishy to jump into the fray in most cases and is really only good for that aura bubble

 

I feel he either has to sit back and give rerolls or you have to get him right into CC and he has to go first otherwise he get's chewed to pieces under weight of dice.

 

The fact that his warlord trait disallows overwatch against him definitely helps get him there. Flamers? Don't care, they can't use them anyway. 

 

 

I agree, but once he's in combat he's a 3+/4+. Anything with an AP modifier and he's a guardsman... I think if he went to 2+ 6W like itvyper suggested I'd feel like he's more even with other characters... I mean come on... he's a freaking chapter master!

[Claws and Effect]

Anything with an AP modifier just means he's using his 4+ invuln save instead. 

 

He really should be 6W, 2+/4++, but I highly doubt GW is going to do that. They apparently decided he is a Captain with a better aura. 

[Biscuittzz]

 

Deliverance is in the galactic southest (if you look at the Cicatrix Maledictum map in the core book, you can't even see us on it - we would be in the bottom right hand corner below San Leor). The Chapter just got done with a major campaign in the Damocles Gulf (most notably the Prefectia Campaign) against the Tau, where we took heavy losses including the loss of our Chapter Master - Corvin Severax (aka: Chapter Master Ready-to-die-for ages). 

 

This all took place at the same time as Abaddon's recent crusade that created the new Great Rift that divided the Imperium in half (and all the cool plot point with Bobby G and the Crew.

 

Some interesting plot points/facts:

 

• Deliverance is relatively close to Macragge - So odds are good that the Chapter is very aware of the Indomitus Crusade - on a more direct/personal level. I expect that once all the new codices drop and GW is ready to advance the story forward - we will have an above-average role to play.
• Multiple accounts of recent fluff/fiction have had us on a more cooperative-level with the Ultramarines. Some early 8th Edition marketing items even had Raven Guard heraldry alongside Ultramarine heraldry.
• The Rift Stalkers are an all-Primaris successor that is fleet based and patrolling the Cicatrix Maledictum. Given the Raven Guard nature, it would be hard to believe that their parent chapter has not had some form of contact and communication with them regarding the galactic climate.
• Heavy losses and a dead Chapter Master more than likely means a defensive slow burn for the chapter as a whole in the near future. That being said, Necrons, Tau, and Orks are the principal threats to the galactic south-east, and you could expect that being a constant point of violence.

 

 

Deliverance is in the Segmentum Tempestus and not near San Leor at all I'm afraid, so don't know where you got that from. Deliverance is in the vicinity of the major forge world Gryphonne IV ( or what's left of it after the Tyranids were finished with it). As such we're relatively far from Macragge and the UM as well. Every old map showcases this location. The raid on Kastorel Novem showcases a good schematic of the overall sector.

 

On the new map in the BRB we would be at the very bottom near Gryphonne IV and most likely not on the map as the map legend actually covers over the planet on the page.

 

Edit: Didn't want to come across as negative, as your piece is very well written. However, a lot of what you have said is based on your thinking that we are located in the galactic south-east, which is not the case unfortunately. Only threat to the Forsarr sector at present would be the Orks and the Tyranids in a minor role ( I believe there is a book about penal legions and RG fighting them on Deliverance/Kiavahr, don't quote me on that).

 

The lack of threats is probably why the RG seem to be all over the galaxy fighting all the time.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Biscuittzz

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I started reading what you wrote and definitely took it as a negative, but then tried to back up and do a little more research because simply put: I wasn't sure.

 

After doing some digging on the interwebz, I was able to find a few points of reference. However, since I am at work, I don't have access to any of my paper copies of stuff to cross reference with. But after looking at various materials, one thing is quite obvious: The fluff in this game changes constantly.

 

Some interesting points:

 

You are correct about the Segmentum Tempestus vs Ultima Segmentum. By saying they were "relatively close to Macragge" I never meant to imply that they were in the Ultima Segmentum, just in the same vicinity (Galactic Southeast). In most artistic drawings Macragge is on the western/rimward side of the Ultima Segmentum, and when you can find direct references to Deliverance/Kiavahr/Gryphonne IV/Forsarr, they can be anywhere from the south eastern edge of Tempestus (again, rimward), and almost damn near coreward.

 

Most map's don't show the exact location of Deliverance/Lyceus/Kiavahr on them, and on top of that, most don't show a reliable waypoint that we could use to place them. I stumbled across a few "Space Marine Chapter" maps, which are just little chapter badges plopped on a galactic map, but I fear those are probably unreliable given the nature of the map (its a very informal presentation). 

 

Ultimately, were dealing with an ever-changing narrative. While GW doesn't have the transparency on changes the way some fiction artists do (see: Comic books/Star Wars and retcons), they do like to "move the goalpost" pretty regularly to support their story. This leads to a place like Tallarn or Gryphonne IV moving what appears to be billions of light years, lol.

 

Here's an example 

 

An older map (Art style tells me its near the 2nd/3rd Ed range, so ~25 years old) https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/ac/Map_galaxy_02.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130118052342

 

And the most recent galactic map from the BRB https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/9/9f/Warhammer40kGalaxy.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20170428081735

 

The old map has Gryphonne IV almost in the core, and in the Ultima Segmentum, and in the new map, its in Tempestus and south-central at that.

 

From my personal perspective, every bit of modern RG lore (the current ongoing timeline) has been very Damocles focused. We know where the Damocles Gulf is, out on the eastern fringe (ESE), and its definitely "on the rim". This, coupled with the fact that its been made apparent multiple times Kiavahr is a more rim-ward world, led me to draw the conclusions I did in my post.

 

I guess the broad strokes would be:

 

1) Tempestus, rim-ward, remote, isolated.

 

2) While we have a home world, we are vary vagrant/fractured in presence. Almost every other chapter has a homeworld that has been the focus of conflict. Deliverance hasn't had this happen in some time, so its become "forgotten" in the modern fluff.

 

3) Due to the tactical nature of the Chapter, we often appear (at least in my humble opinion) more like a fleet-based chapter.

 

I look forward to seeing how the new Dark Millennium fluff plays into that.

[thewarriorhunter]

 

2) While we have a home world, we are vary vagrant/fractured in presence. Almost every other chapter has a homeworld that has been the focus of conflict. Deliverance hasn't had this happen in some time, so its become "forgotten" in the modern fluff.

 

I look forward to seeing how the new Dark Millennium fluff plays into that.

 

We're not forgotten, we're hiding :) You think it's just that we're being ignored? I bet we've fended off dozens of assaults on Deliverance with such switch efficiency that wind of it has never left our beloved Ravenspire and gotten out.

 

We want it this way.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Forgotten by the writers, not in reality/our minds eye.

 

[Claws and Effect]

I started reading what you wrote and definitely took it as a negative, but then tried to back up and do a little more research because simply put: I wasn't sure.

 

After doing some digging on the interwebz, I was able to find a few points of reference. However, since I am at work, I don't have access to any of my paper copies of stuff to cross reference with. But after looking at various materials, one thing is quite obvious: The fluff in this game changes constantly.

 

Some interesting points:

 

You are correct about the Segmentum Tempestus vs Ultima Segmentum. By saying they were "relatively close to Macragge" I never meant to imply that they were in the Ultima Segmentum, just in the same vicinity (Galactic Southeast). In most artistic drawings Macragge is on the western/rimward side of the Ultima Segmentum, and when you can find direct references to Deliverance/Kiavahr/Gryphonne IV/Forsarr, they can be anywhere from the south eastern edge of Tempestus (again, rimward), and almost damn near coreward.

 

Most map's don't show the exact location of Deliverance/Lyceus/Kiavahr on them, and on top of that, most don't show a reliable waypoint that we could use to place them. I stumbled across a few "Space Marine Chapter" maps, which are just little chapter badges plopped on a galactic map, but I fear those are probably unreliable given the nature of the map (its a very informal presentation). 

 

Ultimately, were dealing with an ever-changing narrative. While GW doesn't have the transparency on changes the way some fiction artists do (see: Comic books/Star Wars and retcons), they do like to "move the goalpost" pretty regularly to support their story. This leads to a place like Tallarn or Gryphonne IV moving what appears to be billions of light years, lol.

 

Here's an example 

 

An older map (Art style tells me its near the 2nd/3rd Ed range, so ~25 years old) https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/ac/Map_galaxy_02.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130118052342

 

And the most recent galactic map from the BRB https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/9/9f/Warhammer40kGalaxy.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20170428081735

 

The old map has Gryphonne IV almost in the core, and in the Ultima Segmentum, and in the new map, its in Tempestus and south-central at that.

 

From my personal perspective, every bit of modern RG lore (the current ongoing timeline) has been very Damocles focused. We know where the Damocles Gulf is, out on the eastern fringe (ESE), and its definitely "on the rim". This, coupled with the fact that its been made apparent multiple times Kiavahr is a more rim-ward world, led me to draw the conclusions I did in my post.

 

I guess the broad strokes would be:

 

1) Tempestus, rim-ward, remote, isolated.

 

2) While we have a home world, we are vary vagrant/fractured in presence. Almost every other chapter has a homeworld that has been the focus of conflict. Deliverance hasn't had this happen in some time, so its become "forgotten" in the modern fluff.

 

3) Due to the tactical nature of the Chapter, we often appear (at least in my humble opinion) more like a fleet-based chapter.

 

I look forward to seeing how the new Dark Millennium fluff plays into that.

 

On every map I've ever seen that featured Deliverance, it was located approximately halfway between Gryphonne IV and Illustrus. Almost due galactic south of Terra. 

 

Draw a line south from Terra slanting ever so slightly to the right. When that line passes between Gryphonne IV and Illustrus, that's where Deliverance is. 

 

Edit: Just double checked and I was a little off. I had Deliverance pegged farther south than it actually is. It is northwest of Gryphonne IV, on the same horizontal plane as Rynn's World. Longitude I had right, but I had a bad latitude. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Claws and Effect

[Race Bannon]

Need to see a map that shows Deliverance.