Striking Scions and Friends

[Schlitzaf]

In 8th Edition are Deep Striking Scions (and rough equivalents like Elysian Command), the new Suicide Sterngaurd Units? That you see a 1 or 2? And then related is the cheap suicide murder squads like Scions and Sterngaurd.

 

Are they healthy for the game? To have an element of cheap alpha strikeness? To give answers to long range or slow deathstar units?*

 

*Mods move this to Amicus if more applicable

[Gentlemanloser]

Just like dsing 30 gaunts for 90 S4 shots.

 

Or now dsing warp spiders.

 

Or dsing 10 GK strikes for 40 stormbolter shots.

 

Ds shooting is very powerful this edition.

[Alcyon]

I'd argue that assaulting out of deep strike is too powerful, and if you nerf that then shooting out of DS has to be good otherwise it's very hard to justify. So then the issue becomes the extent to which people can spam good weapons into squads with this ability. In the past it was only possible to DS like, two Meltaguns in a BA Assault Squad, or do things with lots of expensive Plasma Pistols.

It's my opinion that the price per model for something as rare and expensive as a Plasma Gun in the lore should go up as you add more to a squad, or something like that. I can imagine a DS team with all Plasma being used but it should be pretty expensive. In terms of "logic" from the lore I would argue that an Astra Militarum army would put that weight of firepower on something like a tank or emplacement rather than a bunch of squishy infantry.

[RangerRob24]

I run with 3 Scion Plasma squads and a Tempestor Prime, throw in another HQ and there is a MT Battalion and 3 CP.

Troop choice that I can drop on an objective if I need to. 
Their ability to fire at DS units within 12 is pretty sweet...and the additional hits on 6's is nice too.

Are they healthy for the game?  Every army will end up with some sort of DS option that make their opponent go...hmmmm.  Suicide them, counter strike them, or objective secure them...I like how flexible they are, and the options it gives to Guard players.
 

[CrystalSeer]

I'd argue that assaulting out of deep strike is too powerful, and if you nerf that then shooting out of DS has to be good otherwise it's very hard to justify. So then the issue becomes the extent to which people can spam good weapons into squads with this ability. In the past it was only possible to DS like, two Meltaguns in a BA Assault Squad, or do things with lots of expensive Plasma Pistols.

 

It's my opinion that the price per model for something as rare and expensive as a Plasma Gun in the lore should go up as you add more to a squad, or something like that. I can imagine a DS team with all Plasma being used but it should be pretty expensive. In terms of "logic" from the lore I would argue that an Astra Militarum army would put that weight of firepower on something like a tank or emplacement rather than a bunch of squishy infantry.

 

I would agree except all of these tactics are extremely easy to counter. You can use cheap units to screen and control space this edition far more effectively the you ever could before. Scouts are a good candidate for this, though the most effective I have seen is tarantula turrets.

 

If you force someone to commit these units in a position where  they can't hit their ideal target, then the enemy just committed troops without gain.

[Gentlemanloser]

Assault from ds is fine. Even with rerolls it's hard to find units than can consistently make the 9" charge range.

 

There are a few. Like Callidus or Culexes assassins.

 

Shooting (especially rapid fire weapons) from ds is so much more potent. Apart from flamers, they took a massive hit there.

[Alcyon]

Assault from ds is fine. Even with rerolls it's hard to find units than can consistently make the 9" charge range.

 

There are a few. Like Callidus or Culexes assassins.

 

Shooting (especially rapid fire weapons) from ds is so much more potent. Apart from flamers, they took a massive hit there.

 

I meant in previous editions - this edition removed the ability to assault from DS and buffed shooting, creating the current situation.

[Gentlemanloser]

This edition gave us the ability to assault from ds.

 

It was mostly impossible in 7th.