Deathwatch Tournament Play

[Aothaine]

That’s a lot for 2k. I’d say it’s too hard to juggle that in a competitive environment. Although I agree about the apothecary except you need to make sure you can protect him because he’s walking without a Repulsor. So 3 of them becomes a logistics issue. But I have used one in my lists. It does help.

 

Yeah for sure all of that won't fit into 2k. I would add them into the list as follows:

 

Watch Master

 

Apothecary x3

 

Dreadnought (twin lascannon + fist) x3-4

 

Kill Team(Terminator(TH+SS), Van Vet(Bolter & Powersword if possible), Vetx5(Bolters) x4-5

 

Librarian x2

 

Corvus (Geared for anti-tank) x2 (Only if there is room. The four dreadnoughts should be doing most of the heavy lifting here)

 

Split up the apothecaries to be able to support two squads each and start foot slogging up the board. Should be pretty effective baring an amazing alpha strike by your opponent. If you could add more Kill Teams the better. I would take more Kill Teams over the Corvas personally.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Aothaine

[Moostick]

You can have every single-model unit, 5 KTs and 3 dreads from that list for 2k. No Corvus. About 40 models with no high rate of fire weapon.

 

To be blunt, this might have a slight chance against elite armies, but will get absolutely slaughtered by horde. In a 1k game against nids, my opponent had 80 models; I imagine it'll be hitting 110-120 in 2k. Even against their weakest gaunts, and assuming you're in rapid fire range, your 50 bolter shots will kill on average 25 gaunts a turn assuming he just charges at you out in the open. Your remaining models will likely finish them off and maybe put a wound or two in another. That's 30-35 of his weakest models a turn and he'll likely have 80-90 of them. They will be able to get into assault by turn 2 and your dreads won't be killing much of these guys in both shooting or melee. This gives time for his big boys to get in by turn 3 and table DW by turn 4. Won't even get out of your deployment zone.

[Aothaine]

You can have every single-model unit, 5 KTs and 3 dreads from that list for 2k. No Corvus. About 40 models with no high rate of fire weapon.

 

To be blunt, this might have a slight chance against elite armies, but will get absolutely slaughtered by horde. In a 1k game against nids, my opponent had 80 models; I imagine it'll be hitting 110-120 in 2k. Even against their weakest gaunts, and assuming you're in rapid fire range, your 50 bolter shots will kill on average 25 gaunts a turn assuming he just charges at you out in the open. Your remaining models will likely finish them off and maybe put a wound or two in another. That's 30-35 of his weakest models a turn and he'll likely have 80-90 of them. They will be able to get into assault by turn 2 and your dreads won't be killing much of these guys in both shooting or melee. This gives time for his big boys to get in by turn 3 and table DW by turn 4. Won't even get out of your deployment zone.

 

Fair enough. Thank you for the point estimation. I understand how Nids work and I think it would be all about placement of units. I would honestly focus fire everything except the lascannons into one unit of gaunts until it was more manageable then turn the lascannons onto the big beasties that are providing Synapse. It would be a very tough fight. Most likely ending in a loss but with the right positioning you can deny a flank to a swarm list so you can focus on one part of the army. 

 

Again, it would be a really difficult fight. Tyranids are really strong right now in swarm form.

[LunarSol]

I get an anti-horde Corvus, but doesn't seem to have a lot of value in the anti-tank config.  Too few shots at low accuracy on a fairly expensive base chassis.  

[Aothaine]

I get an anti-horde Corvus, but doesn't seem to have a lot of value in the anti-tank config.  Too few shots at low accuracy on a fairly expensive base chassis.  

 

DW have a few good anti-horde options. Razorbacks with AC are most likely their best bet for now imho. Other options might be an anti-horde kill team with a veteran vanguard so you can back up and fire.

 

Why the veteran vanguards are not fallback and assault and the bikes are not fallback and shoot I just don't understand.

 

Also this is only if we are running pure DW which I think is a bad idea. I think running pure with most armies is a bad idea right now. Running a detachment of Veteran DW with Terminators and Apothecaries and a cheap captain in razorbacks/rhinos and a second detachment of a faction with really good anti-vehicle would be the best way to go. Currently Militarum Tempeusts is by far the best imho.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Aothaine

[shanewatts]

This is the list I am looking at for tournaments right now:

 

BN

Captain w/hammer,shield,jump

Lib w/sword

 

5 vets w/2xfrag,3xchainsword

5 vets w/2xfrag,3xchainsword

5 vets w/2xfrag,3xchainsword

 

Land Raider Crusader

 

Fly detach

Xiphon(DW)

Xiphon(DW)

Valkyrie w/multilaser, rocket pods

 

BN

Tempestor Prime w/cane,chainsword (kurov's aquila)

Tempestor Prime w/cane,chainsword (laurels of command)

 

Scion Command w/4xmelta

Scion Command w/3xmelta

 

10 scions w/1xbolt pistol

5 scions w/2xvolley,1xbolt pistol

5 scions w/1xvolley,1xbolt pistol

 

10CP(9CP for extra relic)

 

All the Deathwatch gets in the Land raider, captain starts in reserve. Either the 10 man scions or both melta command squads start in the valk with a prime (allows you to get 3 inches away with the valk disembark after movement.) Only things deployed are the 3 fliers and the land raider. If needed scions can deploy to screen the land raider.

 

Its mobile, able to deal with all targets and able to steal objectives.

[Aothaine]

 

 

Yup something like this is what I was thinking.

[Moostick]

Main worry I have with the Xiphon is the potential FAQs incoming for the forgeworld books. They used to not really care, but seeing they've done some edits to the guard one already, we may see more attention to FW models.

 

Right now Xiphon is undercosted as it brings more firepower and a more useful ability than the Stormhawk for about the same points.

[MeltaRange]

What do you think about Deathwatch allied with Mechanicus?  They have some decent cheap troops & nasty long ranged firepower.

[Aothaine]

What do you think about Deathwatch allied with Mechanicus?  They have some decent cheap troops & nasty long ranged firepower.

 

Could totally work. Just need to make sure that you setup the roles carefully. DW right now are more geared toward the mid-range so you would want your Mechanicus to be focused on melee, which they can do, or long range firepower. Just keep in mind you will need something that can take objectives in the mid-late game.

[shanewatts]

What do you think about Deathwatch allied with Mechanicus?  They have some decent cheap troops & nasty long ranged firepower.

What Mechanius units are you thinking?

 

The troop units are fairly cheap, but not very mobile. If you wanted to make a gunline list it could work. 

 

Realistically at that point you might as well just play Mechanicus though, their gunline is superior to ours.

[Prot]

What do you think about Deathwatch allied with Mechanicus?  They have some decent cheap troops & nasty long ranged firepower.

Definitely workable. But the Admech are really static so I would concentrate on Corvus DW or some other means to get them in mid range

[Mobius0288]

What do you think about Deathwatch allied with Mechanicus?  They have some decent cheap troops & nasty long ranged firepower.

I'd definitely say use their stuff fill what you're lacking - Dunecrawlers for long range and/or anti-air, and Rangers for sniper-ish stuff. I would think they'd be cheap enough to still allow you to get some razorbacks and decently kitted-out kill teams, hopefully a blackstar as well.

[MeltaRange]

I've thought about a couple options, not sure about the viability.  This is just an initial pass, but 2 interesting options below.  There is also the obvious Cawl + Mars stuff but that gets pretty expensive so I'd honestly rather have like a Tallarn Guard detachment full of cheap troops and transports to use for blocking/objective grabbing with that setup.  That might end up working better with any of the armies below actually, but, at least I had enough points for the DW detachment to bring something decent.

 

Army 1

Graia Battalion

• Dominus (emotionless clarity, runs up front with vanguard)
• Enginseer
• 10 Vanguard 3x Arc Rifle
• 10 Vanguard 3x Arc Rifle
• 10 Vanguard 3x Arc Rifle
• 2x Onager w/ Neutron Laser
• 1x Onager w/ Eradication ray (runs with vanguard + warlord)

Deathwatch Battalion

• Watch Master
• Terminator Librarian
• Naked Kill Team just Bolters
• Naked Kill Team just Bolters
• Kill Team w/ Stalker Bolters
• 8 man Kill Team 5 Bolters 3 Frag Cannons (rhino)
• 6 Vanguards w/ bolt pistols + power swords
• Rhino

 

This army is basically designed to flood the opponent with flexible and cheap troops (they are relatively tough with Graia trait) that can tie the units up in combat and still shoot, while also featuring 3 onagers and having a deep strike element that synergies well with Rad Saturation.  Hopefully opponent leaves rhino alone in order to focus on the dunecrawlers.

 

Army2

Agripiinaa Spearhead

• Dominus (necromechanic, arkhan land)
• 6 Destroyers w/ Plasma, 3x flamer 3x phosphor
• 2x Robots w/ 3x heavy phosphor
• 2x Onager w/ Neutron Laser 

Deathwatch Battalion

• Watch Captain w/ Jump Pack, TH
• Watch Master
• Kill Team 2x Combi-Plas (pod)
• Kill Team 1 Frag (pod)
• Stalker Kill Team
• Stalker Kill Team
• 3x Bikers power weapons
• Drop Pod

 

This army is designed to have a well-entrenched and extremely lethal firebase and DW to run interference.  Kataphons will be used aggressively to try and take advantage of 5+ overwatch and the "Fresh Converts" strategem - 3 CP to completely regenerate that unit of 6! (not to mention elimination volley)

 

 

I don't know, it's an initial pass like I said.  You could also probably make a nice Stygies VIII army that's actually pretty fluffy since they are Xenos oriented (thought I believe in the fluff, the DW actually have been known to actually attack Stygies VIII tech-priests because they are TOO far Xenos...but that's another matter.)

[Moostick]

With Sicaran Venators getting the "buy me" treatment, what's the better option for anti-tank? Venator or Xiphon?

 

Venator - 230 pts

+3 Wounds

3 S12, AP4, D6,  -1 to hit on wound

2 S9, AP3, D6

3 S5, AP1, 1D

Boots on the ground/screener

LoS can be an issue

 

Xiphon - 240 points (assuming no changes to Missile Battery)

-1 to Hit for fire against

+1 to Hit against Flyers

4 S9, AP4, D6

3 S6, AP2, 3D

Movement can be good or bad/can't capture or screen

Can't be tied up in assault

Difficult to screen against on alpha strike/can't protect from alpha strike

 

Both have some form of Machine spirit, so I didn't include that. Hard choice, and I think it depends on the rest of your army composition. If you need to take our backline artillery then Xiphon. Anything else, I would opt for the Venator.

[mega_marines]

With Sicaran Venators getting the "buy me" treatment, what's the better option for anti-tank? Venator or Xiphon?

 

Venator - 230 pts

+3 Wounds

3 S12, AP4, D6,  -1 to hit on wound

2 S9, AP3, D6

3 S5, AP1, 1D

Boots on the ground/screener

LoS can be an issue

 

Xiphon - 240 points (assuming no changes to Missile Battery)

-1 to Hit for fire against

+1 to Hit against Flyers

4 S9, AP4, D6

3 S6, AP2, 3D

Movement can be good or bad/can't capture or screen

Can't be tied up in assault

Difficult to screen against on alpha strike/can't protect from alpha strike

 

Both have some form of Machine spirit, so I didn't include that. Hard choice, and I think it depends on the rest of your army composition. If you need to take our backline artillery then Xiphon. Anything else, I would opt for the Venator.

 

Honestly the Xiphon is a better choice. It will be able to hunt more and be a much better distraction than the Venator. As much as I adore the Sicaran chassis it just doesnt ooze character like the Xiphon does either. It being able to be anywhere it needs to be is also incredibly helpful, and that alone is one of the biggest selling points. 

[Prot]

Did the Xiphon get any CA love? I know it’s a favourite in the Astartes forum but I haven’t seen a lot of people use it with DW

[Moostick]

It got increased by 30 points, which I thought was actually pretty reasonable.

[Thanatos31]

Did the Xiphon get any CA love? I know it’s a favourite in the Astartes forum but I haven’t seen a lot of people use it with DW

was interested in that flyer too. Do you have any experience with it or could link to a good thread ? 

 

Thanks

[Prot]

There's a decent all around FW thread in the Astartes section here:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340943-competitive-fw-units-for-sm/