M@verik115 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 That is far too cheesy for me and its clearly an oversight. The way I see it, if the unit is not on the board (ie in a transport) and cannot be the target of anything, then its not in 'play' at that moment and thus cannot score. There is nothing that says they do score, but there is a rule that says that units in a building score 3" around it. Now transports are scoring, but the troop choice inside them only has objective secured once they disembark. I am pretty sure it is how its meant to be played as that is how we played in 7th and shall continue to do so unless specified otherwise. 7th edition doesn't really matter, because it was always different from the Age of Darkness. You could argue for the FAQ clarifications, but is that even available on any of GW's sites anymore? The only vehicles that can score in the Age of Darkness are Predators in the Rite that makes them Troops. Dedicated transports are also troops, but are specifically excluded from scoring. Well technically now HH was 6th ed, and was then ported to 7th ed. But yes sorry you are correct. So as there is no rule that specifically states that units embarked in a transport can score while embarked in a transport, we shall play at as thus unless something comes up to say otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4990836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Right, but the opposite is also true and we have the precedent of units embarked in buildings (same conditions as far as not being on the table for targeting purposes) being able to hold objectives, and flyer transports specifically being called out as NOT being able to score with their embarked troops. So without referring to any outside sources, it seems they indeed can score. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@verik115 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Right, but the opposite is also true and we have the precedent of units embarked in buildings (same conditions as far as not being on the table for targeting purposes) being able to hold objectives, and flyer transports specifically being called out as NOT being able to score with their embarked troops. So without referring to any outside sources, it seems they indeed can score. Im pretty sure it will get FAQ'd. Units embarked in a transport have never been able to score as far as I know. Units inside a building have been able to and again it specifically states it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I honestly don’t even care about the scoring, I just want Primarch buffs to work when they are in transports. It’s silly how inconsistent they are with their wording. I heard through the grapevine that GW is pretty frustrated with FWs inconsistency and ass-dragging, and that some sort of ultimatum has been issued. Not sure how true this is, but I have high hopes they bring them in line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@verik115 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I honestly don’t even care about the scoring, I just want Primarch buffs to work when they are in transports. It’s silly how inconsistent they are with their wording. I heard through the grapevine that GW is pretty frustrated with FWs inconsistency and ass-dragging, and that some sort of ultimatum has been issued. Not sure how true this is, but I have high hopes they bring them in line. Well I know the new SW stuff has been pulled to be redesigned. But yeah FW does need to step up already, although lets face it, as long as they release great content as usual, they are allowed to take their sweet ass time with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 I heard through the grapevine that GW is pretty frustrated with FWs inconsistency and ass-dragging, and that some sort of ultimatum has been issued. Not sure how true this is, but I have high hopes they bring them in line. What does this even mean? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I heard through the grapevine that GW is pretty frustrated with FWs inconsistency and ass-dragging, and that some sort of ultimatum has been issued. Not sure how true this is, but I have high hopes they bring them in line. The dinosaurs making up GWs executive leadership are finally getting replaced? Finally! Change we can all believe in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I honestly don’t even care about the scoring, I just want Primarch buffs to work when they are in transports. It’s silly how inconsistent they are with their wording. I heard through the grapevine that GW is pretty frustrated with FWs inconsistency and ass-dragging, and that some sort of ultimatum has been issued. Not sure how true this is, but I have high hopes they bring them in line. Well I know the new SW stuff has been pulled to be redesigned. WHAT?!?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I heard through the grapevine that GW is pretty frustrated with FWs inconsistency and ass-dragging, and that some sort of ultimatum has been issued. Not sure how true this is, but I have high hopes they bring them in line. What does this even mean? It means FW sucks. Their stuff is poorly edited, and FAQs are slow in coming. They are not complying with the new directive for 8th edition that GW has put forth. If they don't shape up, their design team will be rolled into the main studio, and FW as an entity will exclusively focus on one-off specialist games rather than the main product. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I heard through the grapevine that GW is pretty frustrated with FWs inconsistency and ass-dragging, and that some sort of ultimatum has been issued. Not sure how true this is, but I have high hopes they bring them in line. What does this even mean? It means FW sucks. Their stuff is poorly edited, and FAQs are slow in coming. They are not complying with the new directive for 8th edition that GW has put forth. If they don't shape up, their design team will be rolled into the main studio, and FW as an entity will exclusively focus on one-off specialist games rather than the main product. Damn i would never have thought a year ago that i would applaud that.. Regards Transported units being scoring, it definitely used to be a thing, might have been in 5th rather than 6th but i recall in the original GW Heresy events units of 10 orks in a Stompa being the bane of a large number of games :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Right, but the opposite is also true and we have the precedent of units embarked in buildings (same conditions as far as not being on the table for targeting purposes) being able to hold objectives, and flyer transports specifically being called out as NOT being able to score with their embarked troops. So without referring to any outside sources, it seems they indeed can score. The ruleset is permissive. Unless it says it can, it cannot. That has not changed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I heard through the grapevine that GW is pretty frustrated with FWs inconsistency and ass-dragging, and that some sort of ultimatum has been issued. Not sure how true this is, but I have high hopes they bring them in line. What does this even mean? It means FW sucks. Their stuff is poorly edited, and FAQs are slow in coming. They are not complying with the new directive for 8th edition that GW has put forth. If they don't shape up, their design team will be rolled into the main studio, and FW as an entity will exclusively focus on one-off specialist games rather than the main product. Sounds like you really wanted HH1st edition to be 8th edition Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Not at all, because that implies FW is doing any better with 8th than they are with 7th. I prefer the war simulation game format for a quasi-historical game like AoD, over the board game on a giant table approach of 8th. I just wanted them to use their now total ownership of the rule set to finally address long-standing issues (and not just blame the studio), and maybe introduce some fun changes like giving sniper rifles pinning. Not to do another copy and paste hack job with no editing oversight or acknowledgement of their half-assery. FW has always sucked at everything except background, presentation, and sculpting, which kept me shelling out the dough. It was only forgivable because GW studio was even worse in that they sucked at those three things AND everything else. It’s now a new era and enough is enough, especially now that they seem to be failing on the sculpting part too. Get your :cuss together, FW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4991764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 I hate the "Half-arsed" and "lazy" argument in regards to FW (its often thrown at Game Devs too) so I just can't take it at face value. They're lazy because they made made a new rule book on top of everything else they are doing and it has a couple mistakes, most of which corrected in an FAQ? Yeah, doesn't scream lazy to me sadly. Do you have a source at GW HQ that said these feelings towards FW? I'd imagine as long as they are making money it's all good and the Heresy is very much making money. Sure Heresy isn't the be all and end all, but specialist games are the current hotness while Heresy gets its house in order (which really, it basically is with a stellar new rulebook!) Plus the Xmas stream made it apparent that a lot of Heresy stuff is being worked on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4992159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I hate the "Half-arsed" and "lazy" argument in regards to FW (its often thrown at Game Devs too) so I just can't take it at face value. They're lazy because they made made a new rule book on top of everything else they are doing and it has a couple mistakes, most of which corrected in an FAQ? Yeah, doesn't scream lazy to me sadly. Do you have a source at GW HQ that said these feelings towards FW? I'd imagine as long as they are making money it's all good and the Heresy is very much making money. Sure Heresy isn't the be all and end all, but specialist games are the current hotness while Heresy gets its house in order (which really, it basically is with a stellar new rulebook!) Plus the Xmas stream made it apparent that a lot of Heresy stuff is being worked on. Now, let's be reasonable... They didn't make a new rule book.They took existing 7th ed rules, copy pasted some already existing HH ones (some of like special rules were totally unnecessary) and gave it a new graphics. that's all. Calling it stellar is so ridiculous that I don't really know what to say. They do not update stuff, erratas and f&q for inferno (book that took years to write and still is the worst book in the series) and other older stuff hould be released long ago. Half-arsed and lazy are fully justified. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4992175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 It was still a lot of work. If you want to bend the rules the first thing to do is start knocking the developers. Gets old real fast too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4992302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 I hate the "Half-arsed" and "lazy" argument in regards to FW (its often thrown at Game Devs too) so I just can't take it at face value. They're lazy because they made made a new rule book on top of everything else they are doing and it has a couple mistakes, most of which corrected in an FAQ? Yeah, doesn't scream lazy to me sadly. Do you have a source at GW HQ that said these feelings towards FW? I'd imagine as long as they are making money it's all good and the Heresy is very much making money. Sure Heresy isn't the be all and end all, but specialist games are the current hotness while Heresy gets its house in order (which really, it basically is with a stellar new rulebook!) Plus the Xmas stream made it apparent that a lot of Heresy stuff is being worked on. Now, let's be reasonable... They didn't make a new rule book.They took existing 7th ed rules, copy pasted some already existing HH ones (some of like special rules were totally unnecessary) and gave it a new graphics. that's all. Calling it stellar is so ridiculous that I don't really know what to say. They do not update stuff, erratas and f&q for inferno (book that took years to write and still is the worst book in the series) and other older stuff hould be released long ago. Half-arsed and lazy are fully justified. Anyone with publishing and graphic design experience will tell you that the new rulebook is definitely not a quick and easy job that people will make out. The layout, some copy, context, photography, backgrounds etc are all new. Yes, a few issues persist within the rules but the task was gargantuan. I don't think they have "Half arsed" anything, it takes multiple people hundreds of hours of combined man hours to produce these books. Inferno FAQs are old rope now. 1KSons are powerful, big whoop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4992304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Perhaps... just perhaps, the rules portion of the rule book should have been the focus? And no faq is not just about the power of the TS, they are currently the supreme legion, but in the context of the Age of Darkness that doesn't mean too much really. The SW rules are basically barely functional, Talons have war gear with no rules, weapons that don't exist in the summary, etc. The actual rules in Inferno are a pile. It actually needs a errata not a faq. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4992326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Anyone on this forum could probably do a better editing job given 20 minutes and a case of beer. Hundreds of man hours indeed, with 99 out of a 100 hours apparently spent playing grab-ass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4992545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Have you guys been living under a rock?? Jeeze, your acting like spoilt brats. It's well documented that FW have been under massive strain with wanting 8th ed done. on top of that, they had a staff shortage and where looking for new sculptors. oh and I hate that it comes up all the time, but You know, Allan passed. Things cannot have been easy there in 2017. So maybe, just cut them a bit of slack while they get stuff sorted. This is a catch up year, so let that happen. Besides, the turnaround from us hearing it's getting it's own rulebook to actually getting it is insane. They had to get something out asap as the system had no rulebook, it was always going to be a copy and paste and was never sold as anything else through out it's known existence. We can still play the game as we always Have! New players can start and over time, new 30k editions will be released I'm sure. They are even working on an Faq already which us unheard of. I'm not sure what you expect from an understaffed company that lost their leader, had to satisfy 40k, blood bowl, necromunda, Lord of the rings, AOS and 30k... oh and develop legio titanicus. Peace off piss really, a crate of beer is all it needs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4992645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Well, since this topic has jumped into Internet Big Mouth Jackassery, we're done here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340898-hh-rulebook-rules-updates-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4992682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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