New Imperial Fists player, returning for 8th!

[Wolfy Dan]

Hello everyone! I've heard so many good things about 8th that I am returning to 40k, and as I sold off all my old stuff have a clean slate to start collecting again. I used to play Space Wolves (which I guess from my user name will surprise nobody), but I've always loved the history and colour scheme of the Imperial Fists. I first read about them as part of the free Warmaster game that was in WD161, and loved how Rogal Dorn was with the Emperor on the assault of Horus' battle barge. So what better time than to go crazy and collect an entire company of Imperial Fists?

 

There are some really great models as well and some nice additional options for mini-characters in Space Marines that gives some nice options. I think the big downside is that I am not a good painter, so whilst I will be taking these much slower to make them look as nice as I can I definitely am trying to find as many shortcuts as possible. Ten of fifteen years ago I was mainly about the competition and the love of battling wits with other good players, but now in my old age I'm far more about the aesthetics of things, and it doesn't get more aesthetic than that lovely yellow armour! So I'm investing some extra money in trying to make things look nice, especially when it helps overcome my painting limitations.

 

 

The Plan

So number 1 thing in my favour is that I have an airbrush. This makes painting large numbers of miniatures very easy for basecoating, especially for a colour like yellow that can be streaky with a brush. A light undercoat and one or two coats should give me the colour I need. I prefer Vallejo airbrush paints so am going to use their Chrome Yellow as a basecoat - once shaded this should get me down a few shades to the Imperial Fists colour. I'm not a huge fan of the models that get quite orangey; I know it really works for some people but I prefer a lighter yellow.

 

The great thing as well is looking at many of the sprues it feels like a lot of the painting can be done on the sprue. Important for me so that my lack of a steady hand doesn't get dark paint on the yellow armour which is going to be painful to try and correct. So primer white spray on the sprue and then basecoating yellow I think using masking tape to cover things like weapons which can be airbrushed black.

 

 

Each of the arms has 1 connection at a contact surface that will be hidden when the model is assembled. So I can clip away the other one to expose the arm for painting with it still securely to the sprue that makes spraying and airbrushing easier. Highlighting and shading should also be much easier as I don't need to worry about getting paint on other parts of the model.

 

 

The legs are even easier because all 3 connections are at a contact surface so no clipping is required at all. The shoulder pads are a bit different, all 3 connections will be in a visible area so if I want to paint them I have to completely remove the pad. I think I have 2 options here. Either I can clip the top and front facing connection and then go over the final one later, or I can remove it completely and use a stick and some blu-tac on the inside of the pad to secure it for srpaying and airbrushing. One advantage I have is that I am going to be using green for the trim (mainly because every IF pic I see is the red 3rd of black 5th companies), and I will choose quite a dark shade so touching up is going to be much easier than if I tried to have it yellow.

 

Talking of shoulder pads...

 

 

Rather than try and use transfers (which I was never good at getting onto curved pads even with small cuts to help fold it) I decided to invest in the mark IV shoulder pads from Forge World. Quite pricey I know but I think the effect will be worth it. And then on the other side:

 

 

I have no idea how these will turn out, but a company called shapeways do these 3d prints. The great thing about these is that I can just airbrush them black on the sprue and then glue them onto the right shoulder pads. If the curve is right then that saves a huge job - not least of which is that I just could not find any transfers with black squad markings, they were all ultramarine white. Quite cheap as well at £16 a sprue, two of these and a tactical one (same thing but with all tactical arrows) gives me everything I need for an entire company.

 

 

Painting

So the dreaded bit! I have been looking at a huge amount of painting guides for IFs and the common feature seems to be that after a basecoat do a bone-whitish drybrush to pick out edges and then use Seraphim Sepia / Agrax Earthshade for the shading. Hard to know the exact right combination of these so I am still investigating - anyone have any recommendations for someone not so good at painting? Should I just use an Averalnd sunset spray instead of an airbrush? The videos I've seen of the spays make them look quite thick on the model is my concern.

 

 

So there's the plan! No pics yet as other than the one tactical squad box everything else is in the post on the way. A big project I know but hopefully one that I find rewarding! If anyone has any advice or tips for me I'd be very grateful for it!

[ninn]

Hi!

 

So what better time than to go crazy and collect an entire company of Imperial Fists?

A second Company. specifically: the first company. ^^

 

I started out like you: I want to have a full company. Then I started to paint terminators too.

 

 

 

 

Painting on the sprue:

More trouble than worth it. If you got an airbrush, the "not reachable" problem is not really a problem, and the only hard thing to reach on a fully assembled marines imho is the aquilla. Nobody will see the errors once you field a full company.

 

My advice: dont do it.

 

don't force you to be perfect - just do it the best you can in relation to your (valueable) time.

 

 

 

recipe:

 

You got an airbrush? great.

 

I am using zenithal highlighting.

Basecoat the whole marine burnt umber / dark brown.

then, give it a good spray from all around at an 45° angle from above. This will make them look very good! And it goes sooooo fast!!!

Then, to top it, give it an shot of flash gitz from the top, 90°.

[bonuspoints for using white before using flash gitz, exactly the same way. I dont bother anymore, tbh]

 

 

this gives you awesome shaded marines. I dont think i have a picture handy ... let me have a look ...

 

my way of going from here is:

drybrush with dorn yellow. block out colors whith dark grey. color in all colors. spray with gloss varnish. oil wash (burnt) umber. spray with matt varnish. weathering.

 

 

 

------------

 

Hot tip:

 

When I first tried out the "gloss varnish" before oil-wash, i still had to block out lots of colors. And I made errors. I found, that I could remove the "errors" very-very-VERY easily from the yellow by just using a brush. The paint was not sticking to gloss, and was easily pulled off with a toothpick even days later. that was awesome.

 

 

 

 

good luck!

 

 

oh, and btw:

 

I have a huge collection of yellow paint.

The best looking combination of yellows is still averland + yriel + flash gitz. this gives such a rich glowing yellow, that is not too light, and not too orange. It just screams "full yellow". no other combination came even close, and believe me, I tried all vallejo yellow. Iven if the paint looks the same in the bottle, averland and yriel is awesomely rich! I still mix and match all yellow paint I have, because GW-bottles suck and the other paints look so much alike ... but you can really tell which marines got the averland and yriel threatment ...

[ninn]

look for "hobby cheating" on yourtube. the guy got two tuts on zenithal highlighting / preshading. worth the watch.

[Wolfy Dan]

Thanks for the advice ninn. I'll have to give your recipe some thought - I've seen quite a few different options to come to the method I was going to pick, but I think yours has a lot of merit, so will need to look into that. I've pre-shaded Sigmarines before and it worked great as I wanted the metallic to have a focal point and it is much easier to control layers with an airbrush.

 

I am quite keen on painting on the sprue still, especially as it is much easier to use masking tape to cover areas for airbrushing. I'm still super paranoid about accuracy mistakes ruining the model if I get dark colours on the yellow and it looking blotchy if I try and fix. It's not even that I lack hand to eye co-ordination as such more than I just have derp moments where the brush goes mental and mistakes are made. I'm going to test it on a tactical squad to see if it works out to expectation. I am going to try the averland spray to see how that looks, then the plan was to try flash gitz and vallejo yellow chrome as a layer to see which looked better. Didn't think about yriel - interesting.

 

I realised the pads definitely had to come off, so made myself a little pad painting rig.

 

 

 

For the models I'm "cheating" by using the fluff that 1st and some reserve companies get assigned to battle companies, so I'm augmenting the 4th with some sternguard and terminators from the 1st, some bikes from the 6th, landspeeders from the 7th, and scouts. Greedy I know!

[ninn]

I never painted on the sprue, just hearsay that is not recommended... I guess because of the cuts, you have to make afterwards.

[anarchistscourge]

One of the key things I realised when I started painting again a few years ago was......Mistakes will always be made. Once you accept that i feel you can paint much faster when your not trying to be uber careful and get every layer perfect. More or less any mistake can be painted back over (although granted dark colours on yellow isnt the easiest to cover).

Once they are all on the battlefield the small mistakes you've covered up, which will always look obvious to you, will fade away and wont even be seen by your opponent.

 

Like others here, i feel painting on the sprue takes alot more time than painting the whole model. With marines i will always glue everything except the gun together and then paint, this leaves the chest open and free to paint the dreaded aquila

[ninn]

just something i always wanted to try, and i am using this very minute: using retarder medium. 

 

I am blocking out colors in black on yellow now. the base color is yellow and matte, and i have to be quick to wipe away an error. otherwise it will dry and permanent. so i have a water-loaded brush next to me, that i use as an eraser. works ok'ish. no, it works well enough. 

 

but today, i am using retarder medium in the black paint to. this way, i dont have to be that quick, and the paint will be easily removed from the yellow some more seconds later. without any marks.

 

when i started out, every error on yellow was permanent.

 

now, i just wipe them away ...

 

became a lot less of a deal...

 

even more so today.

 

 

 

... no time to talk... must ... work ... on ...

[Wolfy Dan]

More great advice on that medium retarder. I'd never heard of it before, but anything that helps reduce the fear factor is a good thing!

 

I've started a colour test on a squad of tactical marines. I used the GW Averland sunset spray as a basecoat and... well disappointed is an understatement. It came out really inconsistent and gloopy and has definitely ruined some detail on a couple of the models. As it is just a colour test I decided to press on, but a few may be getting dunked in dettol afterwards. I really liked your point about the "full yellow" as that is absolutely what I was looking for so the recipe I am trying is:

 

Averland Sunset base

Vallejo Model Air Bone White drybrush (Ushabti Bone)

Vallejo Model Air Chrome Yellow airbrush x2 coats (Yriel Yellow)

Seraphim Sepia wash

Detailing

..... (this is the stage I am doing)

Assembly

Agrax Earthshade wash

Flash Gitz Layer

 

 

 

Not as yellow as I was expecting at this stage, but I guess that is what the final Flash Gitz layer is for. The airbrushing actually helped quite a lot to smooth over the models after the disaster of the GW spray so it doesn't look as bad as it did to start with.

 

For the sprue painting you make the cuts before you start the painting, leaving only contact surfaces (because these will be the part that glues to another part it doesn't matter if they are unpainted - actually it's a little better if they are not. That's why the legs are still connected completely, but just above the missile launcher arm and backpack you can see I have cut the sprue joins (the final ones are easy to cover later as they won't be yellow). That's why the shoulder pads had to come off because all connections would have to be painted afterwards and it would look terrible.

 

Should have the results of the colour test by the end of the weekend and then we can see if it looks good enough to do the rest that way!

[ninn]

I tried the averland spray too last autumn: Worst GW product ever. It clogged up after 5 marines, and became a wash the, runny as hell. No idea what happened, but it was so bad. After that shock, next day, it started to discolor where I put on the dark wash. I had white recesses afterwards. *shudders*

[tvih]

Let us know how those shapeways things turn out. I'm also interested in the role markings ones especially, was just looking at them the other day. I have a bunch of FW and some GW shoulder pads, but nothing for the role markings. Although I was also looking at some extra fist emblems that can be added onto a regular shoulder pad just like those role markings, since they'd be cheaper than entire shoulder pads. And it's not like I have a shortage as far as unmarked shoulder pads go, as I've barely used any since I'm primarily a BT player with upgrade sprues galore.

 

As far as painting, I'm in the process of trying the Warhammer TV method - Averland Sunset base, Hexos Palesun drybrush, Casandora Yellow wash. Problem is the Hexos paint is veeery odd. I mean it's of course a Dry series paint, but it's like a damn sponge, not like paint at all. It's not really dried out, but indeed spongy, and very granular. It has to be wetted to able to use it but then it's no better than simply using a regular paint... bah.

[Kisada]

If you have an airbrush I think you should definitely go with that and not bother with the rattle can

 

Interesting approach with the painting on sprue ... I'm going to consider that when I work on some horde type units

[Wolfy Dan]

Thanks for the input guys, it's really helping me to decide which way to go.

 

I managed to get the yellow up to a nice colour through the averland sunset spray followed by airbrushing two coats of Yellow Chrome and then two coats of Moon Yellow. I was especially pleased with how the pre-shading and pre-highlighting was maintained through 4 yellow coats, although I might go a bit heavier on the highlighting next time. The problem as you all picked out is that I am now freaked out by the rattle spray ruining more models.  I always accepted this first unit of tacticals as ones to be prepared to lose, but I don't want to risk it on anything else. Same thing as you ninn that in some places it was just so runny. Worth a test but yeah time to retire that from the collection.

 

So now I think priming with with airbrush as well (which is not a problem), but means I need to work out the recipe again! Time to break out the dettol and have another go!

 

 

tvih - I was looking at those fist icons as well, but the problem I noticed (and this is being really picky) is that the fist is the wrong way around (and the wrong hand):

 

Shapeways:

 

This is the back of the right fist with the thumb the far side.

 

Official Logo:

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Stone-Imperial-Fist.jpg

 

And ours is the front of the left fist with the thumb in front. I'm guessing that whilst symbols like an arrow are so generic they cannot be copywritten, that this fist is too close for them to risk being sued. Sad because, as you say, this would be MUCH cheaper than the 140 Forgeworld Mk IV shoulder pads I bought. 

 

 

For brush painting I did see a youtube video where they started with a bone colour and then applied a yellow shade and glaze over the top. I think if I didn't have an airbrush that's the method I would go for.

 

https://youtu.be/biqPX_uQ6m0

 

I'll crack open another box of tacs while these ones are stripped, but I may need to get some more paint so no pics for while sadly.

[Semper Fortis]

One thing you might consider when painting on sprue is that it's very difficult to clean up mold lines. When you then use a dry brush technique to bring up your yellow you end up with those missed mold lines very prominent.

[tvih]

 

tvih - I was looking at those fist icons as well, but the problem I noticed (and this is being really picky) is that the fist is the wrong way around (and the wrong hand):

 

There are actually both "orientations" of the ones I was looking at, here's the "correct" one: https://www.shapeways.com/product/RRF4MBRED/royal-fists-shoulder-pad-icons-x20-l?optionId=63701196&li=marketplace

[ninn]

All my marines got greenstuff chapter symbols.

 

I bought forgeworld shoulderpads, once.

I used greenstuff to make a mold of that symbol.

using that mold now to stamp new greenstuff-symbols onto clean shoulder pads.

 

 

They look good. But It is kinda complicated to make it work, and takes times and lots of tries. But it looks ok.

 

 

Best looking and easiest: Put a drop of superglue on sholder, put a small ball of greenstuff onto it, flatten with finger. Use that flat circle to freehand chapter symbol with micron pen.

[ninn]

http://www.timeactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IMG_0055.jpg

 

 

you can see both methods here: the left squad got bland, circles with freehand micron-logon. The right squad got 3d greenstuff stamps.

 

 

[tvih]

Hmm good point Ninn. I do have some InstantMold I could use for the mold. Entire shoulderpads are an utter pain to try to get to look good via a press mold, but just the icon should be doable. I don't have green stuff currently, but I do have superfine Milliput which should hopefully work.

 

I've already bought a lot of IF pads as is, but certainly need more, plus some DV, AoBR & Space Hulk terminators need icons as well. Maybe some more Templar ones too. But I'd also need to do those role emblems (tactical etc). Embossed looks nicer than freehand-painted with those too, for sure.

[ninn]

Hmm good point Ninn. I do have some InstantMold I could use for the mold. Entire shoulderpads are an utter pain to try to get to look good via a press mold, but just the icon should be doable. I don't have green stuff currently, but I do have superfine Milliput which should hopefully work.

 

I've already bought a lot of IF pads as is, but certainly need more, plus some DV, AoBR & Space Hulk terminators need icons as well. Maybe some more Templar ones too. But I'd also need to do those role emblems (tactical etc). Embossed looks nicer than freehand-painted with those too, for sure.

 

I WISH I would have found chapter / Squad Symbols that were seperate, so i could make a mold only and just for that symbol.  It is kind of a pain, to press a mold filled with greenstuff and superglue on the other side aligned properly and good looking on the first try.  

 

Since most of my figures are second hand anyway, i had no use for a whole shoulderspads. - but just the symbol, to stick on after would be great! I have not found a way to create/ extract that small symbol from the mold without destroying it it in the process. I tried that the first time: They came out super-thick and warped, they were hard to glue onto the pads. I had more luck stymping it directly onto the pad.

 

I already got molds from all IF-Shoulders I found, about 7 or so different ones.  

 

Problem with my technique is, that there is need for oil jelly too, so the greenstuff does not stick to the greenstuff mold. and that jelly needs to be removed later, before priming. not a big issue, but if forgotten, the paint will not hold.

[Wolfy Dan]

Great stuff guys - if I had seen that before I bought 140 Mk IV shoulder pads I might have had a go with it! Good spot as well tvih, I totally missed those in the list, that could have helped.

 

The great news is that the shapeways squad markings are a perfect fit and just the right size. I'll add some pictures in the next update once they are painted up, but I tested on a command skull which looked the most awkward shape and it was absolutely perfect. I'm really pleased with the results as it sits nicely in the centre of the pad (in fact the curves make it easier to align there).

 

Other than that not much of an update from me of any interest. I decided to get the most boring part out of the way first which is all the basic infantry. I've made up my 2 Devestator and 2 Assault units from 2 boxes of their respective squads and a tactical squad to get them up to 10 men. That means that my infantry is 8 Tactical boxes, 2 Assault boxes, and 2 Devestator Boxes. The Tacticals are 3 sprues per box, the Assaults 2 per box and the Devestators 3 per box for a total of 34 sprues. Double sided this means 68 sides. Each of these need to be airbrushed 6 times (2x white primer, 2x averland sunset, 1x yriel yellow, 1x flash gitz) for a total of 408 sprays! I'm going to do the drybrush highlight and wash after the averland sunset sprays so that they come through after the other 2 yellows. So that's 272 sprays before then, and I am currently 32 in. But the good news is that all the sprue clipping is complete and that was the most boring of the jobs to be done, so it is better progress than it seems.

 

What is also super helpful is that I found the following guide for paint conversions:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y4IRCsIk0tFiFjP0nZHwMfTnSoLxRptNnB5Vz7HLKto/edit#gid=4

 

The guy who made this used the paint company swatches to colour match, so I found the best equivalent Vallejo paints, and fortunately Gold Yellow / Sun Yellow / Moon Yellow are near perfect matches. So hopefully I will get that "full yellow" effect you mentioned ninn! 

 

ps - loving those old plastic space marine models in the bottom right ninn, a real nostalgia trip seeing those!

[Wolfy Dan]

So it's been a couple of months and progress has been going really well. As I decided that I needed to get the less exciting parts of the project completed first in order to keep motivation to the end, and that pretty much meant batch painting 100 marines. I decided to upgrade my airbrush as well as I was using a cheap one that kept clogging. A fair investment of £100 for a nice Iwata one but it has made a huge difference to the speed. It's hard to explain, but the Iwata feels like I was expecting the cheap one to be like. Cleaning is much easier as well (0.35 aperture rather than 0.2 is helping).

 

Recipe: 2x coats of Vallejo white primer. 2x coats of Vallejo Golden Yellow. Thick brush application of GW Seraphim Sepia. Drybrush Vallejo Bone White highlight. 1x coat of Vallejo Chrome Yellow. 1x coat of Vallejo Moon Yellow.

 

Currently I'm about 2/3rds of the way through the seraphim sepia wash. I went for a thick brush to have the wash spread a little over the surface areas. Normally I'd hate having this because it would look too messy, but the yellow coats going over the top results in this being quite well covered so you get a shading effect but without it being strong. The test models I've done have worked out well. Same principle for doing the highlighting at this stage - it still comes through but not as harshly as if it were done last. I think this is mainly because the airbrushing covers the flat surfaces well, but does not go into the recesses or stick to the edges as well.

 

Here's what I have so far:

 

 

So very happy with the progress so far!

 

The shapeways shoulder pad emblems are also looking pretty good. I've done a test fit with a command skull and it hugs the pad really well.

 

 

Here I've just airbrushed them black and then given them a neutral grey edge highlight.

 

I'm aiming to complete the wash and highlighting in the next 2 weeks (am away next weekend at a blood bowl tournament) and then it is back to airbrushing yellow!

[Wolfy Dan]

The armour has been finished! 100 marine parts batch painted. I also picked up the really nice Imperial Fist command pair from Forgeworld as it felt quite fitting that my Captain and Company Ancient was wearing some older power armour to help them stick out. Still need to do all the detailing but very happy with how the amrour has come out.

 

[TheGreenWombat]

Cant wait to see the final result of those shoulderpad.  How thick are the marking? they look pretty thick, are you satisfied with the curve they had to match the shoulderpad?

The yellow is great, I need an airbrush.... I do about 9-10 coat on each now...

 

Keep it up!

[Dosjetka]

Welcome back to the hobby, Wolfy Dan. :tu:

 

The results look promising so far! Can't wait to see the first few modeld finished. Any ideas what you'll be going with base-wise?

[Wolfy Dan]

Welcome back to the hobby, Wolfy Dan.

 

The results look promising so far! Can't wait to see the first few modeld finished. Any ideas what you'll be going with base-wise?

 

Guess which army I used to play? (before I saw the Emperor's light of course!)

 

 

Here is the up to date WIP. Think I am nearly there but a few things I am not happy with:

 

 

 

Obviously there are some technical mistakes like the shoulder pad painting not being straight enough that I'll have to tidy up. My paint brushes got a bit frayed and I was too impatient to wait, so that'll teach me! So definitely some fixing to do. These shoulder pads are much harder to paint than the normal plastic marine ones as well as they curve down more so it is much easier to spill over the edge.

 

Big thanks to Ninn in particular for the yellow recipe. I am really happy with how it came out. Just like you said it is the "full yellow" that I was really after. I'm also glad I went with the 4th company green on the shoulder pads. The first one I went for was ok (Vallejo sick green) but just didn't have the contrast with the yellow that I was after so I changed to it the Dark Green and it comes out a lot better. The eyes I kept as sick green with scorpion green highlights, and then a thin ardcoat cover to get the glossy lens.

 

Very happy with the banner too. That was undercoated with the white primer, painted bone white, and a seraphim sepia wash. I mixed the wash 50% with water on the part the transfer goes on to make it a bit lighter. The top of the banner was Golden Yellow base, again with a seraphim sepia wash, and then a 50/50 mix of golden yellow and brassy brass for a light drybrush against the grain to pick out the edges. The laurel was dark green with a dead white light drybrush, again against the grain to pick out the edges. The transfer was from the forgeworld imperial fist horus heresy sheet, which is quite pricey at £16 but you get a lot on it. Not happy with the weapon, so that will get some more work but I am not sure what.

 

Base wise I definitely want a dark base, and it will be similar to what there is in the picture (I was using one of the ones that didn't come out well for this, and not sure if you can see it is bluetacked on. They need some touching up before I will glue them, but the idea is to cheat for extra contrast by giving it a dark base against the yellow armour.

 

 

 

 

Cant wait to see the final result of those shoulderpad.  How thick are the marking? they look pretty thick, are you satisfied with the curve they had to match the shoulderpad?

The yellow is great, I need an airbrush.... I do about 9-10 coat on each now...

 

The curve was perfect! I was really happy and surprised about how good it was. They do come out quite a way from the shoulder pad, so I am only using those markings because they suit the forgeworld shoulder pads that I got for the chapter symbol which also sticks out:

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Imperial-Fists-Legion-MKIV-Shoulder-Pads

 

 

The reason why I don't have any pictures of those yet is that I am still working through the batch painting of the 100 marines. All the yellow is now done and I am on to the detailing. I'm doing the tactical leg sprues first (80 pairs of legs!) and have just finished the purity seals and the black joints for them. It's so painful I'm not even thinking about the end result, just setting myself the job of painting at least 10 legs a day. The arms should be faster, and I am looking forward to doing the chest and heads as they look the most interesting. Painting the captain and company ancient was mainly about taking a break from the monotony.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Standard Bearer certainly looks promising.