CoffeeGrunt Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Reports are trickling in from the frontlines of a massive, imminent resurgence of this most vicious and hated foe. We're hearing of stat improvements, Hive Fleet rules and points drops across the board that seem to indicate the Tyranid menace will be a very difficult enemy indeed. I thought it prudent to start a bit of a brainstorming session in the Barracks here, so that we can discuss the best means to face and defeat this resurgent foe. Personally I'm seeing the speed of Tyranids is going to be much higher, and they'll be filling out slots cheaper. Our Psykers will be threatened by the new HQ Neurothrope which can be built as a Psyker-melting baby Doom of Malan'tai, and there's some vicious new Bioweapons being unleashed. So what do the men and women of the Guard feel will be the best strategies and response to the new threat? Sources: Codex Preview Hive Fleet Adaptations HQ and Leaders Guardsman Bob 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenSoldiers Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I, for one, am happy to see that none of the adaptations got the flat “-1 to hit from 12” away..” trait that seemed to be gaining popularity! As long as I can shoot them with my BS 4+, they’ll die just like all the others! I am worried about their speed though! The psykers aspect of “wiping out a random psychic power” scares me because with only smite and 1 other power you’re going to lose something valuable. I know my psykers will be hiding as far away as possible now... Guardsman Bob 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 Being able to slap someone with D3 Mortal Wounds for failing a power will make them think twice about Casting as well. That could be an Astropath just, poof! (Also it combos with a Perils on a double 6, which is nasty!) FallenSoldiers 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Punishers, Baneblades, Stormlords, Hellhammers, layered infantry squads seem to be the way to goWe will drown them in las, shells and bodies! :D FallenSoldiers, Emicus, Khornestar and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 So, here are my thoughts thus far: 1) Psychic Scream really doesn't worry me. It only affects the closest target, and if your psyker is that close to the enemy he's probably dead anyway. 2) Soul Hunger is a bit more worrisome. However:- It's only available on the Warlord.- It 'only' has a range of 18". Given that our psykers will almost certainly be behind the lines anyway, this means the enemy warlord will have to be quite close, which will mean a not-insignificant degree of risk.- Given that our psykers are amongst the cheapest in the game, we can probably get away just fine with simply not casting within the AoE (certainly not casting anything we can do without).- We can probably disperse our Psykers enough that at least some won't be affected by this, even if the Warlord is close to our lines.- We will usually have enough Command Points to use one each turn on a reroll if necessary (I wouldn't press my luck too much, but it's useful if we need to get off a key power). That said, I think this might make using Inquisitors less attractive. Honestly though, this seems like a pretty niche ability. If anything, we should probably be grateful if our opponent chooses this over, say, an equivalent of Grand Strategist. 3) In terms of increased speed and numbers, I think the key will be the time-tested tactic of throwing more guardsmen at the problem. By layering squads, we should be able to give the enemy a juicy target, but with too much of a gap for them to consolidate into any subsequent squads. 4) FRFSRF is your friend. 5) Astropaths could be very useful for removing the perpetual-cover bonus from Jormungandr units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Their speed, even in the index is scary. Not looking forward to codex speed. Deployment and in game movement will be key to slowing them down and stopping them from consolidating into our entire army. That's a little concerning though with how large our armies tend to be. Imperator Deus 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Infantry Squads with FRFSRF, preferably Vostroyan for the longer range or Cadian with Take Aim! for re-rolling all misses. Punisher cannons on anything that can take them. Heavy Bolters are point for point one of the most efficient weapons in the game, and heavy stubbers are up there as well. Tank Commanders/Pask with a Punisher, Storm Bolter, and 3 Heavy Bolters will delete hoards of termigaunts. Vulture gunships with dual punisher cannons will be really good. Taurox primes with gatling cannons will be good. I did the math in an older thread here and the most efficient weapons will be heavy bolters, punishers, heavy stubbers, storm bolters, missile launchers, earthshaker cannons for bigger threats, and heavy quad launchers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Of note is that most of the synapse creatures are more than 10 wounds, and therefore targetable, although changes to synapse make this less helpful than it was in the past. Edited November 1, 2017 by micahwc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I, for one, am happy to see that none of the adaptations got the flat “-1 to hit from 12” away..” trait that seemed to be gaining popularity! As long as I can shoot them with my BS 4+, they’ll die just like all the others! I could be wrong, but dont they have a character keyword model which effectively gives a circle of -1 to hit on all targets within it? So no, 1 group doesnt have access to it only, the whole damn species has it xD As for dealing with numbers, simply put it comes down to number of dice and artillery support, mortars, earthshakers, punisher cannons, hell ally in a small DKK detatchment full of twin heavy stubber teams just to plug gaps in the line and put out volleys of firepower. As for dealing with their speed, we have very few options to keep out of range of them, venators could be a good shout for it though from forgeworld, they move 15 inches a turn with a 5+ invuln to help them from being shot up and can take lascannons or multilasers depending on what target you wish to deal with via using them. The other option is taking advantage of our outflanking capabilities as a faction, we have the tallarn outflank 3 units, the dagger for a CO and unit, rough riders, death riders (if you get a death rider commander and command squad they can take 4 other death rider units with them, bring them in behind the enemy, make them have to think about if they push the gunline and have their important stuff hit in the rear or turn to deal with you for a turn or 2 while your gunline fires). We have options, but our options are very much reactionary sadly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I, for one, am happy to see that none of the adaptations got the flat “-1 to hit from 12” away..” trait that seemed to be gaining popularity! As long as I can shoot them with my BS 4+, they’ll die just like all the others! I could be wrong, but dont they have a character keyword model which effectively gives a circle of -1 to hit on all targets within it? So no, 1 group doesnt have access to it only, the whole damn species has it xD Venomthropes, yes. However, unless they've been changed for the codex, then they're not characters and so we're free to target them. Might be a good idea to include Mortars or Wyverns though - just in case they're hidden out of LoS. Also, worth noting that they can only protect infantry - so you should be free to shoot the Monstrous Creatures and such without penalty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Malenthropes, 90 points, 9 wounds and are characters. They grant a -1 To anyone shooting at any kind of unit in range of them and they're synapse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Actually, apparently units of 6 Venomthropes can support Monstrous Creatures now. Edited November 1, 2017 by CoffeeGrunt Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Malenthropes, 90 points, 9 wounds and are characters. They grant a -1 To anyone shooting at any kind of unit in range of them and they're synapse. I'm struggling to believe 90pts for 9 wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenSoldiers Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 What about using the old imperial soup to bring in some sisters of silence? I’ve wanted a Detachment of them for a long time now... duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Malenthropes, 90 points, 9 wounds and are characters. They grant a -1 To anyone shooting at any kind of unit in range of them and they're synapse. I'm struggling to believe 90pts for 9 wounds. You're free to look it up yourself mate, those are the numbers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Malenthropes, 90 points, 9 wounds and are characters. They grant a -1 To anyone shooting at any kind of unit in range of them and they're synapse. I'm struggling to believe 90pts for 9 wounds. You're free to look it up yourself mate, those are the numbers. If you have a link to the appropriate leak/preview could you post it? There is no Malenthrope entry in the Index and I don't have the Tyranid codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Imperial Armour Index Xenos,pg 17. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Seems nuts to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Nuts or not it's one of their best HQs, so a good guard commander needs to be ready for it. Malenthropes are tough and hard to get at. 9 wounds mean they get to take full advantage of the character rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Nuts or not it's one of their best HQs, so a good guard commander needs to be ready for it. Malenthropes are tough and hard to get at. 9 wounds mean they get to take full advantage of the character rule. But that's exactly it - there's literally no solution to it. It has so many wounds that sniping it is a laughable prospect, even without the -1 to hit. If you face them you'll just have to take the hit to BS and hope for the best. Guardsman Bob and Imperator Deus 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Weight of firepower wins the day. Massed artillery and punisher vultures. It helps teach target priority. I fight them rather often, not nearly so insurmountable as you seem to imagine. Edited November 1, 2017 by Tirak Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Weight of firepower wins the day. Massed artillery and punisher vultures. It helps teach target priority. I fight them rather often, not nearly so insurmountable as you seem to imagine. What weight of firepower overrides the rules for targetting characters? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 Outflanking weight of fire. :P Halfpint100 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Blasting through his protections and outflanking, as Coffee says. I run flyer heavy, so i take advantage of my maneuverability. Dragging the line out so they have to either conga line back to a malenthrope or be outmanuvered, there's many ways to mitigate your enemy. Warhammer isn't just running straight in with no thought for positioning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman2160 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Infantry fire to take down the first ranks. Mortars and artillery to break up the second and third waves. Tanks to kill the big ones. BIG ROB OF DEATH 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340959-the-great-devourer/#findComment-4922201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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