Points conundrum

[spiros14]

Hello,

 

Does anyone know if GW released an FAQ regarding index points and codex points?

In particular, do Blood Angels pay the reduced codex points cost for power fists (12 points), or are they stuck with their index price (20 points)?

[Dam13n]

GW haven't been doing that for the Indices.

 

Until the Blood Angels have a codex of their own, they're stuck with the index points costs.

 

Given the speed at which GW is releasing codices, you won't have to wait too long for the update.

[Jolemai]

We've had this come up already in the BA forum and here's the highlights:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 10/14/2017 at 11:19 AM, SM1981 said:

On a semi related note (well related to rules updates / changes). Can someone point me towards the FAQ where space marine power fists get reduced to 12 points, and also where it says this applies to all non codex chapters also?

I'm sure I saw this somewhere (specifically the 2nd point) but now can'take re-find it.

Any ideas anyone?

 

 

  On 10/14/2017 at 2:44 PM, Are Verlo said:

I think that is no Faq, it's a change of pointvalue in codex space marines.
We use datasheets and pointvalues from index imperium 1 until gw release codex BA

 

 

  On 10/14/2017 at 4:44 PM, SM1981 said:

Ahh... Thanks for the correction.

 

 

  On 10/14/2017 at 9:53 PM, Xerxus said:

 

  On 10/14/2017 at 11:19 AM, SM1981 said:

On a semi related note (well related to rules updates / changes). Can someone point me towards the FAQ where space marine power fists get reduced to 12 points, and also where it says this applies to all non codex chapters also?

I'm sure I saw this somewhere (specifically the 2nd point) but now can'take re-find it.

Any ideas anyone?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/

 

"Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out."

 

As far as I am concerned, this means using the pts costs from the SM codex for everything that BA share with SM. It was even ruled that way at a recent tournament I went to based on this FAQ.

 

 

 

  On 10/14/2017 at 10:35 PM, Pendent said:

 

  On 10/14/2017 at 9:53 PM, Xerxus said:

 

  On 10/14/2017 at 11:19 AM, SM1981 said:

On a semi related note (well related to rules updates / changes). Can someone point me towards the FAQ where space marine power fists get reduced to 12 points, and also where it says this applies to all non codex chapters also?

I'm sure I saw this somewhere (specifically the 2nd point) but now can'take re-find it.

Any ideas anyone?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/

 

"Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out."

 

As far as I am concerned, this means using the pts costs from the SM codex for everything that BA share with SM. It was even ruled that way at a recent tournament I went to based on this FAQ.

 

 

It would obviously make sense for us to have the cheaper power fists etc, but whoever does the Blood Angels datafile for battlescribe does not agree and I am cripplingly depending on that app for list writing.

 

 

 

  On 10/15/2017 at 8:41 AM, Jolemai said:

It says datasheet and there are no points listed on a datasheet. If you're depending on that community post to the letter then you can't use the associated points in C:SM.

Feel free to take this to the OR.

 

 

  On 10/15/2017 at 1:25 PM, Are Verlo said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

This clearly says to use index 1, both datasheets and point values.

 

 

  On 10/15/2017 at 5:59 PM, SM1981 said:

Cheers guys. For me that lost post is the nailminnthe coffin. Still good to have the right info even if it's not the answer I hoped for. Index books rules and points values stand for BA. Looks like I'm stuck paying for expensive power fists for the time being... Or maybe remodelling those models that have the option to have thunder hammers.

 

The unfortunate part is that folk are placing too much stock in a Community post and marrying that up with their desire for improvements. As it stands and by RAW, we're using the points cost listed in our relevant Indices (Indexes?)

[Gentlemanloser]

And the community faqs strike again.

 

Just like out of date wargear options.

 

GW really need to release an official errata on what is or isn't allowed, rather than trying to cater to everything.

[Ciler]

This official GW document : https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads/K3ns3JDOGE2asjf/Primaris-week-4/IORF435R4_ENG_Primaris_Marines_Release_04_July_29th.pdf summarises all point costs for primaris models and units and confirms they may be used by BA, DA and SW.

 

All models and options are costed at exactly the same value as their vanilla SM counterparts.

 

Conclusion : in due course, DAs, BAs and SWs will get the point updates. As far as I am concerned, an opponent using those armies should already use the updated points, but there has been no unambiguous FaQ on this topic from GW.

[Gentlemanloser]

It was this section;

 

"Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out."

 

Basically i asked in an old thread what cost index storm shields for gk librarians were after codex sm released but codex gk hadn't.

 

That community faq implies i could have used the codex sm entry for my gk librarian with codex sm points.

 

Edit. So blood angels should be using the points for power fists from codex space marines, rather than index 1?

 

Why just bangels, dangels and wolves? Why not Deathwatch and LotD as well?

 

What happens if codex bangels is next and reduces the cost of power swords? Do wolves and dangels (only) get to use those reduced costs as well?

Edited November 2, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[spiros14]

Alright, thank you for clearing that up for me. Normally I would just stick with the index points or just talk to my own group about it, but the list I was writing us for the new Warhammer World Campaign Weekend in January, so I wanted to get that sorted ASAP.

Thank you again for your assistance.

[Ciler]

  On 11/2/2017 at 4:01 PM, Captin spiros said:

Alright, thank you for clearing that up for me. Normally I would just stick with the index points or just talk to my own group about it, but the list I was writing us for the new Warhammer World Campaign Weekend in January, so I wanted to get that sorted ASAP.

Thank you again for your assistance.

In this case, i would recommend a much more straightforward solution. I believe there's a contact email for the Warhammer World events, it's among other things the one used to validate conversions and stuff prior to tournaments.

 

Just fire them a quick email and ask.

[BluejayJunior]

  On 11/2/2017 at 4:12 PM, Ciler said:

 

  On 11/2/2017 at 4:01 PM, Captin spiros said:

Alright, thank you for clearing that up for me. Normally I would just stick with the index points or just talk to my own group about it, but the list I was writing us for the new Warhammer World Campaign Weekend in January, so I wanted to get that sorted ASAP.

Thank you again for your assistance.

In this case, i would recommend a much more straightforward solution. I believe there's a contact email for the Warhammer World events, it's among other things the one used to validate conversions and stuff prior to tournaments.

 

Just fire them a quick email and ask.

 

If Chapter Approved comes out in December, then that may adjust all the point values as well. I believe that is one of the purposes of CA, if I am remembering correctly. 

[Ciler]

The anniversary primaris captain is supposed to be usable by all SM chapters, and it's datasheet as provided by the model says to get points from the codex.

[Gentlemanloser]

Primaris are agreeably different. And have been released equally to most chapters.

 

While GW seem to be going for a unified wargear cost (all storm bolters are 2 points), some wargear differs in costs due to codex over index releases.

 

Should all codexes use the most up to date point cost regardless of publication?

 

I think this is thier aim with Chapter Approved, but doubt they will reprint all points lists for all armies in it.

 

What happens if the next codex release changes the points cost for some shared wargear? Do all existing codexes / index armies have to use this new cost?

 

How would you get the cost without purchasing a book for an army you don't use?