New DA player - army expansion ideas

[Angel of Solitude]

Hi,

 

After many years of just absorbing the lore side of 40k, I'm now looking to venture into the gaming side. I already have a very fledgling Ravenwing-based DA army, but I'm struggling to work out what my next purchase should be. 

 

My current army is as follows:

 

Sammael on Corvex

Ravenwing Apothecary
Ravenwing Ancient

Ravenwing Champion

9x Ravenwing Bikes with 2x Plasma and 1x Melta

1x Ravenwing Attack Bike with Heavy Bolter

1x Dreadnought with Twin Lascannon and Missile Launcher

5x Deathwing Terminators with 1x Assault Cannon and 1x Chainfist

 

Some thoughts I had were:

1. Librarian in Terminator Armour to add psychic offense/defense and fill HQ slot.
2. Landspeeder squadron to build on Ravenwing core, possibly with Multi-meltas as anti-vehicle/monster unit.
3. Attack bike squadron, see above.
4. Predator with lascannon to add anti-vehicle.
5. Darkshroud, because.
6. Scouts with snipers, to add at least one troop choice.

All comments and suggestions gratefully received!

 

[Othniel's Blade]

The Lib + Terminator combo worked well for me in 7th, ended up selling all but my Ravenwing before 8th, though. Only problem there is the lack of numbers, others are more knowledgeable than I.

I would almost say all but the Pred, since scouts are thematic, though perhaps a little dangerous to have close to the object of the Hunt.
 

Have you considered the Dark Talon?

[Chaplain Raeven]

Have you considered 40 tactical marines?

[Wrath of Bruinen]

I think the answer to this question depends on what you want to get out of this army. Are you looking to make a no-holds barred competitive army? Do you want to collect to a theme? These things will change the answer. It's also worth considering that our codex is probably not too far off hopefully, and any changes in the codex might affect what you take. So it might be worth holding off for a little bit.

If you're after something competitive, a dark shroud is a must in my opinion. As Othniels Blade said, a dark talon is also worth thinking about, although if you want to play competitively I would say minimum 2, possibly 3 talons. In terms of sticking with a ravenwing theme: I'm sure there will be people out there who will advocate for attack bikes, but I'm really not a fan of them as they will almost always only hit of 4s at best. With a multi melta, a 50/50 chance of hitting just isn't reliable enough for my tastes. Landspeeders are a bit better because the missiles give them a few more shots, but they get quite expensive that way. Hopefully the codex brings a points drop for them.

Alternatively, you already have one squad of terminators - you could add some more terminators to go with the classic dark Angels DeathRaven one-two punch. My gut feeling is that the codex will bring some kind of benefit or stratagem that rewards taking the two wings in tandem, but that's just a hunch I have.

Scouts are nice for bubble wrapping and deepstrike blocking. I haven't found the snipers to be worth it really, but others may have different opinions there.

Finally, the predator (and GRC's 40 tacticals suggestion). I think greenwing can be a good supplement to the ravenwing. From a fluff perspective, I'm reading Gav Thorpe's Ravenwing at the moment where the ravenwing fight alongside the 5th company. If you're looking for a fluffy list or a theme, that could be a good place to start. If you do go with greenwing, I would be tempted to go with devastators with lascannons over a predator - they're easier to park in cover for a 2+ save, and can be put in high pieces of terrain for better LoS.

My final recommendation would be this - pick them models you like. IMO dark Angels have some of the best looking models in the whole of 40k, so you can't go wrong by picking things you like and will enjoy painting and seeing on the tabletop

 

*edit: clarified sentence structure

Edited November 2, 2017 by TheWeepingAngel

[Angel of Solitude]

Thanks for all the responses. I doubt that I'll really get into competitive play, so fluff/theme is probably the more important factor. I started off building a Ravenwing army around Sammael, so that's the theme that I'll keep with. 

 

A Dark Talon and Darkshroud sound like good additions to this theme. How would you typically deploy either one, and what are their strengths?

 

I think some more Deathwing might be a good longer option, especially anticipating a future codex. I'm in need of a second HQ, so what would work well with 10 Deathwing termies - should I still stick with the Librarian, or would I be better with Belial, or perhaps an Interrogator-Chaplain?

[Chmur]

DarkShroud is a buffing unit. You keep it with your most valuable assets and give them the -1 to hit. EG you have 10 Ravenwing Knights that you need to rush in to get close and personal with something, you keep the DarkShroud with them. Or you have 3 Predators and Azrael for rerolls, you keep DarkShroud stationary to cover them in the -1 bubble. It's really just a protective buff model.

 

Dark Talon has two purposes - do damage and die. Against elite armies you do well with the Rift Cannon, against horde armies the bolters under wings are much dakka especially in short range rapid fire. Bomb is super one-hit wonder, but it works. It's annoying, can move a lot across the battlefield and usually gets focus fired - if you are prepared for that, you can "screen" your other units by sacrificing your Dark Talon after round 1 etc.

 

If you need other HQs, make Librarian (a must have so far in this edition, smites are yummy and denies not shabby) and Interrogator-Chaplain if you wanna keep it fluffy. For me Ravenwing has been underperforming this edition really, so I have them shelved and wait for codex to provide us hopefully with some stratagems/better synergies. Looking at the other codices, I do not think we will be disappointed.

 

BTW - my suggestion before you make any purchases etc, if you are frequent player and have option to play against variety of armies - find opponents that will not mind you proxying the models for 2-3 games. That way you get the feel whether the model works the way you like, or which purchase you should prioritize. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Chmur

[Angel of Solitude]

Chmur - thanks for the solid advice. How you describe the Dark Talon and Darkshroud have helped me to think how I might use them in my army. For the Darkshroud, this is likely to be cover a long-range firing platform. I already have one dread, so what about another? Points-wise they seem like a better option than a predator or two. 

 

I like the idea of teleporting in a librarian-led Deathwing team. I have one squad of Deathwing already, would it be worth the points to bring along some Knights, or just another squad of base Deathwing?

[Chmur]

Chmur - thanks for the solid advice. How you describe the Dark Talon and Darkshroud have helped me to think how I might use them in my army. For the Darkshroud, this is likely to be cover a long-range firing platform. I already have one dread, so what about another? Points-wise they seem like a better option than a predator or two. 

 

I like the idea of teleporting in a librarian-led Deathwing team. I have one squad of Deathwing already, would it be worth the points to bring along some Knights, or just another squad of base Deathwing?

 

Dreads are definitely fine choice, just keep in mind you want the Mortis dreads with 2 long range weapons or complete close combat dread. The half/half choice is just not good enough. Likewise, for competetive list, Predator is better than Dread. Case can be made that they are cheaper and do not deteriate in their profile, but the 25pts for Predator for the extra wounds is really good bargain and, Predator can have mixed loadout of Autocannon and 2xLas, which is just better than any Dread can have. For tournaments etc, do not take Dreads. For "regular" games, I do take them because they are sexy as hell. I would say get Predator next, more on to why in last paragraph.

 

Deathwing - terminators are better than last edition, competetive wise still not good. The 2W helped, but with the current multi D weapons, it's as good as having 1W. Most fun I've had with DW currently has been deepstriking some TH/SS, LC/LC and AC or Cyclone terminator squads behind enemy lines (weak spots) and charging them. Deathwing Knights with HQ choice attached can survive long, long time on objective etc. But, boy are they fun! To regular games, I bring Green and Deathwing combined forces without much armour, as that is just pure joy to play around with -at least for me.

 

For me, the main question you need to honestly answer to yourself is, where do you want to focus your hobby. I am modeller first and player close second and I cannot resist buying new and multiple kits, playing with building them etc, so for me the answer to the question "What to get next" is more "What to get next first". Likewise, as I generally make my army 2H before the game from models I own and have painted, I am in no press to "paint this first". Exception to this has been (and will be) my first tournament (and those coming in the future), but for this I will simply have a cookie-cutter list ready to be taken for competetive practice games and the tournament, rest of the games I will still be playing with my fluffy terminators, primaris and what have you.

 

My biggest single advice to you - get magnets and learn about magnetizing. You can save quite some money in the beginning AND you will have higher variability in your army for testing and thinking what to do next. Definitely the big kits like Dark Talon, Darkshroud deserve to be magnetized so you can change from model to model on the fly depending on what playstyle you like. I personally will never have a Ravenwing only army, as that does not appeal to me, but your mileage may vary - therefore it is good to have the variability in your model base, because in the end all that I've said so far is my biased and skewed opinion and you know how it is - opinions are like ass****s, everybody has one and they stink Predator kit can be easily magnetized as well to serve as everything from Rhino through Razorback to Predator. Some people magnetize their terminators, some even tacticals. Sure, first boxes will be harder to get all the options ready, but the more you collect boxes, the bigger your options will be.

 

If you are not interested in that part of the hobby (fiddling with plastic before you even get to paint it and play it), then as per above - you do you. This is hobby first and foremost, no reason to push yourself into the aspect of it you do not appreciate and will disgust you.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Chmur

[Angel of Solitude]

Chmur - again, thanks for your input, it's been very helpful. I understand the point about Predators vs Dreadnoughts, I hadn't realised at first that a Predator has more wounds which is why it costs a bit more. As you say, the best strategy is to just try things out and see what works! Magnetisation may be a bit advanced for me, but it's always an option for the future.

 

Of course, everything now also needs to be considered against the forthcoming codex release...

[Chmur]

Chmur - again, thanks for your input, it's been very helpful. I understand the point about Predators vs Dreadnoughts, I hadn't realised at first that a Predator has more wounds which is why it costs a bit more. As you say, the best strategy is to just try things out and see what works! Magnetisation may be a bit advanced for me, but it's always an option for the future.

 

Of course, everything now also needs to be considered against the forthcoming codex release...

 

Magnetization is actually very simple - it just sounds hard. But imho painting a mini is 100% more complicated that drilling holes and gluing in magnets :) So if that is something you find interesting, do not hesitate to try it out. Most likely you would be able to get some starting set of magnets in your local playgroup. But again, if not then not :)

 

Since the Dex is coming in 4 weeks, I would put off buying "the average chapter specific" stuff until it hits. You still have plenty of things you can get and build - from predators, razorbacks through Dark Talon and DarkShroud (seriously you cannot ever go wrong with them and they are lovely) and then look at the Stratagems and chapter tactics and what have you when the Dex hits and fill in blank spaces of the army depending on synergies coming along.