Quality of Black Library 30K/40K Fiction

[mc warhammer]

well, FotE was pretty much what i expect from franchise fiction. i'll leave it at that.

[b1soul]

@Brother Lunkhead

 

"Next... 'Fear to Tread'. Biblically epic in my opinion. El Cid meets Lovecraft and thrown into the Book of Revelations. Blood Angel goodness!"

 

What...to each his own I suppose

[Phoebus]

Flight of the Eisenstein suffered from the same problem as every other depiction of the Death Guard up until recently: a lack of any effort to add depth and nuance to them by way of actual motivations for what it is they’re doing.

 

Side-rant: it’s shocking to me that, despite the Horus Heresy being something that has been expanded on for two decades now and has benefited from a decade-long (and then some) novel series AND a dedicated range of semi-comprehensive game books, there are still major questions unanswered like, “Why DID Mortarion rebel?”

Edited November 10, 2017 by Phoebus

[battle captain corpus]

Comparatively to other tie in fiction BL work is solid and dependable. Some authors and novels I would consider recommending even to non hobbyists as good works of fiction, such as Horus Rising and the Night Lords trilogy.

The only other tie in scifi I've entertained over the years has been the Aliens work. Even this is hit and miss though.

Personally because (taking Spez Mahreens as an example) these characters are so well defined for us before reading we don't always need a full description of their prowess/enhancements etc within the books. Some would say that this frees up word space for more character/plot development. Others may say that clever use of filling in basic background as to we Mahreens are how they are is essential, especially for newer readers. I think both camps have a point.

By and large I've found the majority of BL products (aside from the frankly horrific setting of AoS that hamstrung the early novels imo!) are good works with a rare few that are diamonds.

 

BCC

[OnboardG1]

Any sci-fi tie-ins live and die by the strength of the authors. The series can have almost no established canon but can be lifted up by a strong writer. BL has a good stable. Star Wars used to have a good stable of writers like Timothy Zahn and Aaron Alston but unfortunately they started commissioning dreadful hacks like Kevin J Anderson to write large chunks of the universe. The have had people like James SA Corey in the mix recently so I guess there's hope. Star Trek novels only seem to be any cop when the original screenwriters are penning them and the same is true of Dr Who. The less said about the EVE novels the better really...

 

Something occurs to me out of that though, which is that BL doesn't hamstring good writers in quite the same way as a lot of other franchises do. At the end of the day both 40k and AoS are deliberately set up so that nothing outside of a few key historical events is ever really canon. It's interpretations of an event by unreliable narrators, meaning that a good author can say "Well this is how Abby thinks this went down" while another can say "This is how Calgar thought it went down" and both would be a legitimate take on it. I remember Star Wars used to have a canon steering committee to keep the EU right, which meant when one of the more dreadful hacks did something world-shattering then every other author was constrained by that. I like that about BL, because when someone writes something bonkers it doesn't need to be regarded as gospel by everyone else. It's just a fragment of an opinion of a legend of someone who may or may not have existed.

[JH79]

Lastly (thank God you say).... Heart of Rage. A great Blood Angels audio drama. James Swallow's best work IMO. Haunting, evocative, and riveting in that order. Some of Swallow's best dialogue and story telling to date. I never grow tired of it.

Heart of Rage is a great listen even by todays multi-layered wonder works of Audio glory such as The Binary Succession. Toby Longworth really nailed his performance for that piece and like you i never tire of it, it's an easy listen and has seen me through many extended cooking sessions! 

 

I found Fear to Tread really enjoyable on my first run through, but subsequent listens became more of a struggle. I think there was possibly almost too much going on, but it still has it's moments.

 

Have you read Swallow's other Horus Heresy book, Nemesis? It's a surprisingly enjoyable read featuring an Assassinorum kill squad 

[Daddywarcrimes]

Flight of the Eisenstein suffered from the same problem as every other depiction of the Death Guard up until recently: a lack of any effort to add depth and nuance to them by way of actual motivations for what it is they’re doing.

 

Side-rant: it’s shocking to me that despite the Horus Heresy being something that has been expanded on for two decades now, and has benefited from a decade-long (and then some) novel series AND a dedicated range of semi-comprehensive game books, there are still major questions unanswered like, “Why DID Mortarion rebel?”

 

Mortarion and Perturabo really don't get much treatment in the BL books to explain why they joined Horus's rebellion, though the Forgeworld books do a better job.

 

Horus forgives Perturabo for scouring Olympia, but ultimately he does all the same things to him that the Emperor did and Pert isn't dumb enough that any of that should have come as a shock.

 

Mortarion rebels because he doesn't like tyrants or the warp, and by the time he recognizes that he's helping replace one warp-fueled tyrant with an even more insane and even more warp-fueled one, it's too late and he's bound by his own oaths to see the rebellion through.

[Phoebus]

I’ve read the Forge World books and the old lore alike, but let’s pretend for a second that the vast majority of this series’ readers probably didn’t spend over two hundred dollars on a pair of gaming sourcebooks for the benefit of their lore*. Heck, is it safe to assume that most readers are even familiar with the old Index Astartes articles, which in broad strokes at least imply those primarchs’ motivations to rebel?

 

Mind you, I recognize that a lot of what I’m going on about with this side-rant was addressed by Laurie Goulding and other folks at Black Library, who - subjective opinions on the value of some of the narrative arcs aside - clearly tried to make this series more cohesive and focused.

 

* Although I’m happy to admit I did just that!

[Warpmiss]

 

'Flight of the Eisenstein' was the perfect end cap to part one of the HH. Mortarion had great respect for Garro, and wanted to give him one last chance to join him, even though he knew that he probably wouldn't ( much like Lokken and Horus). Grulgor was a thug, so of coarse he came off like a cartoon villain. He was ambitious, with very little intellect, and no humanity. Most of this book was centered around Garro, who was a bit of an outsider in the Death Guard. He didn't really hang with Typhus and his gang. The book was mainly about Garro's struggle with his legion's betrayal of the Emperor and embrace of Chaos. I think it covered that quite well.

With that description of Grulgor, I have to ask, how the hell did he get to lead the Second?

 

I actually liked the book but as you've said, a huge problem is that the DG suffers from a lack of characterization.

 

Mortarion and Perturabo really don't get much treatment in the BL books to explain why they joined Horus's rebellion, though the Forgeworld books do a better job.

 

Horus forgives Perturabo for scouring Olympia, but ultimately he does all the same things to him that the Emperor did and Pert isn't dumb enough that any of that should have come as a shock.

 

Mortarion rebels because he doesn't like tyrants or the warp, and by the time he recognizes that he's helping replace one warp-fueled tyrant with an even more insane and even more warp-fueled one, it's too late and he's bound by his own oaths to see the rebellion through.

Pert has gotten loads more of characterization than Mortarion though: Angel Exterminatus features him as one of the main characters, he has some time in the Tallarn novellas, he already has his Primarch novel out and he is even one of the main characters in Magnus' novel. I started collecting Iron Warriors because of these, actually.

[bluntblade]

Mortarion's fluff since FotE has been superb at times.

[Warpmiss]

His brief appearance in Scars was great, IMO. Loved his duel with the Khan.

[Knockagh]

I don’t read much other tie in fiction but I recently bought Thrawn by Tim Zahn who is lauded as the best of the Star Wars writers. Must say I wasn’t overly impressed, I didn’t finish it. It was an origins story and finding a comparable origins tale in 40/30k I would pick Dante, Lorgar or Perturabo any day. I don’t think I will be rushing to get another Star Wars novel.

 

I have also bought the first of the Skyrim novels it’s been sitting by my bed for ages. Just bought it because I loved the Skyrim setting. Hopefully get around to reading it soon....I’ve also bought the three Titan books on the lore of Skyrim which could be compared in a way to FWs Black heresy books. The Skyrim books are great, good quality, well illustrated and readable. Again though not in the same class as the FW black books which are amazing as top quality art and fiction pieces. But then I think I paid £20 for the Skyrim books as opposed to £70 for the black books. So they would need to be better!

[Phoebus]

I bought Thrawn to satisfy feelings of nostalgia, Zahn's post-Endor trilogy of novels featuring the same Grand Admiral having been such a good series. I admit, Thrawn felt like it was written by a completely different author. Parts of it were quite good, but others were easily forgettable.

[b1soul]

What more recent BL works contain Mortarion characterisation?

 

Scars

Path of Heaven

Daemonology

Dark Imperium

 

Any others?

[Knockagh]

I bought Thrawn to satisfy feelings of nostalgia, Zahn's post-Endor trilogy of novels featuring the same Grand Admiral having been such a good series. I admit, Thrawn felt like it was written by a completely different author. Parts of it were quite good, but others were easily forgettable.

Yes, I had read the original thrawn trilogy years ago and throughly enjoyed them. This one felt rather flat. Maybe I’ve got used to better quality sci fi from BL.

[Brother Lunkhead]

@Brother Lunkhead

 

"Next... 'Fear to Tread'. Biblically epic in my opinion. El Cid meets Lovecraft and thrown into the Book of Revelations. Blood Angel goodness!"

 

What...to each his own I suppose

 

Yup.... and I stand by my opinion.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Flight of the Eisenstein suffered from the same problem as every other depiction of the Death Guard up until recently: a lack of any effort to add depth and nuance to them by way of actual motivations for what it is they’re doing.

 

Side-rant: it’s shocking to me that, despite the Horus Heresy being something that has been expanded on for two decades now and has benefited from a decade-long (and then some) novel series AND a dedicated range of semi-comprehensive game books, there are still major questions unanswered like, “Why DID Mortarion rebel?”

 

Very good points sir.

 

Too little has been written on Mortarion and the Death Guard in a substantial way. From what little you see in 'Flight of the Eisenstein' it insinuates that Mortarion is very ambitious (not in a good way) and has his own agenda. That fact that this has not been explored in all this time seems almost unforgivable.

[Warpmiss]

What more recent BL works contain Mortarion characterisation?

 

Scars

Path of Heaven

Daemonology

Dark Imperium

 

Any others?

 

Aside from FotE, those are all I know of. I haven't read Path of Heaven and Dark Imperium yet but from what I've heard, Morty only appears briefly (similarly to Scars), is it true?

 

 

 

Flight of the Eisenstein suffered from the same problem as every other depiction of the Death Guard up until recently: a lack of any effort to add depth and nuance to them by way of actual motivations for what it is they’re doing.

 

Side-rant: it’s shocking to me that, despite the Horus Heresy being something that has been expanded on for two decades now and has benefited from a decade-long (and then some) novel series AND a dedicated range of semi-comprehensive game books, there are still major questions unanswered like, “Why DID Mortarion rebel?”

 

Very good points sir.

 

Too little has been written on Mortarion and the Death Guard in a substantial way. From what little you see in 'Flight of the Eisenstein' it insinuates that Mortarion is very ambitious (not in a good way) and has his own agenda. That fact that this has not been explored in all this time seems almost unforgivable.

 

 

I find it strange that BL has already dedicated time to the other 3 legions that fall to a specific god but not the Death Guard. It seems like we should know more about Mortarion and Typhon by now.   

[MrDarth151]

 

@Brother Lunkhead

 

"Next... 'Fear to Tread'. Biblically epic in my opinion. El Cid meets Lovecraft and thrown into the Book of Revelations. Blood Angel goodness!"

 

What...to each his own I suppose

 

Yup.... and I stand by my opinion.

 

 

I do like the fact that there are people other than me that enjoyed Fear to Thread.

[bluntblade]

Mortarion's role in PoH covered a lot of ground, actually.

[Warpmiss]

Mortarion's role in PoH covered a lot of ground, actually.

Really? that's great to know! I'll have to read it when I'm done with The Beast Arises.

[Blood Angel Scout]

Mortarion is also in vengeful spirit

[Ascanius]

Fear to Tread was fine. Like many non-Abnett/AD-B/French/Wraight novels, my main problem with it was too much in the way of plain description of fighting, shorn of any insight into character.

 

For instance, I'm listening to Corax at the moment, and there's a lengthy scene where Corax is flying to attack a fortress and he's getting shot at by anti-air guns and hunted by jets firing missiles. It goes on for like 10 minutes in the audio version, but it's no more exciting or interesting at that length of descriptions of maneuver and counter-maneuver than it is in my summation above.

 

By contrast, the shorter scene where Navar Hef confesses his transgression to Corax was riveting - though perhaps because of the actor's very fine performance as his ability to speak broke down.

 

For a better comparison, Corax's confrontation with the target inside the fortress is much more interesting than the largely tedious description of fighting that gets him there.

 

To bring it back to Mortarion: it's important that he be handled by a writer who's concerned with motivation and character first and foremost, because he's got a complicated set of influences and ideas driving him to act as he does, and he really needs an illuminating internal examination whenever we get to the marooning of the Terminus Est.