Zombs Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 I can't seem to win vs this dude. Immagine something like: Girlyman Tigurius 3-4 rb with ac Storm Predators Tacticals with laser Terminator/centurions to countercharge How is your personal experience vs him? Any tips? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godeskian Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 So basically the build that won all the recent tournaments. Tough to beat, given that it's arguably the best current build. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4924344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Don't play against meme lists. Primarchs are one of the biggest cancer factors in the game right now. I wish tournaments just banned them, they're a crutch for soup armies and distort the meta in stupid ways. If you really want to deal with the list, you'll need to bring the firepower to clear the screening units from him, then send in Draigo with 'Heed' up (2+ invul means he'll have to proc his mortal wounds on 6's to actually hurt you, whereas Draigo just needs 'Hammerhand' to murder him). Dreadknight Grand Masters will help in this, but they're not tough enough to deal with Girlyman and you risk losing them Turn 2 to lascannons. Venerable Dreads with 'Astral Aim' can help with sniping Predators. Terminators/Centurions you can actually kill with falchion Strikes in melee, who likewise are great for clearing out (with either storm bolter or melee) the lascannon Tac squads. Tiggy is annoying, but you can just use 'Aegis' strat to shut down a critical power a turn so he's less effective. If you wanna really curbstomp Girlyman, bring an allied TDA Librarian with 'Null Zone' to cancel out his invul so Draigo's attacks go straight through. It's a rough matchup because he has ranged immunity (unlike the other two), and unlike the other two he's a massive force multiplier so sitting behind a firing line doesn't waste most of his strengths (whereas Magnus wants to mind melt people, and Morty wants to spread mortal wounds around/scythe people to death). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4926369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombs Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 Ye I am starting to Think I should just stop playing vs "those guys", but I really wanted to test my list vs the best ones... but it's not enjoyable when the opponent can litterally stand still and wait for me to make my move, while rerolling everything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4926757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 It all depends. If you are trying to play for fun? Yes. Stop playing against people who bring primarchs or ask them not to field them. If you are playing competitively then you need to get used to it. There are decent chaos lists that use both chaos primarchs in the list. They are more vulnerable than Guilliman though because he is sub-10 wounds. Guilliman is amazing right now. Reroll-hit & wound rolls is just really damned good. You got to match cheese with cheese friend. Try bringing your HQ walker with three more walkers and have them shunt up the line and assault turn one. Then have three units of terminators with apothecaries backing them up. I've seen this in action and it is horribly strong. It still might not be enough if you don't get first turn. But when you're playing competitively it is difficult to win if you don't get first turn. Prot 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4926779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombs Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 What I am trying to achieve is beying able to beat competitive armies, without abusing cheesy stuff, and keeping my list good looking on the field. Was planning on making some alliances with space marines for ranged anti veichles, but still unsure. The problem with turn one charges is that they are unreliable. Just a screen of unità block them, and even getting a 9" charges rerolled is not so easy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4926791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godeskian Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I'm honestly not sure you can reliably beat the cheesiest of cheese without your own cheese, but I admire your efforts to try Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4926880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) I'm honestly not sure you can reliably beat the cheesiest of cheese without your own cheese, but I admire your efforts to try It is possible. The G-man list that won Heat One, played by Lewis "The Spider" from Table Top Tactics beat his own list with a Nurgle Daemons list that was not even tooled up. Every list has their weaknesses and that Nurgle Daemon list is also horribly strong. I think he had 90 Plague Bearers, FW named greater daemon that healed wounds, mortarion (though they admitted the list would be better with three Death Guard Nurgle Daemon Princes), Then three psychers. Had the musicians for the extra advance movement and all that jazz. The Ultramarine list was nearly tabled. The cheese can be dealt with. It is not easy. Keeping your force themed and highly competitive can be difficult but it can be done. I highly recommend checking out their battle report. It was very educational. What I am trying to achieve is beying able to beat competitive armies, without abusing cheesy stuff, and keeping my list good looking on the field. Was planning on making some alliances with space marines for ranged anti veichles, but still unsure. The problem with turn one charges is that they are unreliable. Just a screen of unità block them, and even getting a 9" charges rerolled is not so easy. Turn one charges are difficult. But remember that you're in massive suits of destruction. You're going to have four of them in your opponent's face. They will be hard pressed to prevent you from doing what you want. In this case it is almost entirely about target priority. Even if you don't get the charge first turn or don't want to risk it you are putting a very dangerous threat right on your opponent's face turn one-two. Grey Knights are stronger than most people give them credit for. It is all about how you build, deploy and prioritize targets. Are they top tier? No. But so far there is not a top tier elite army. But Grey Knights are still very strong. Edited November 8, 2017 by Aothaine Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4927442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombs Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) Interesting! Where can I find that battle report? Edit: nvm I found it. It makes me sad tho that there was only one grey knight player in the tournament... Edited November 8, 2017 by Zombs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4927589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Interesting! Where can I find that battle report? Edit: nvm I found it. It makes me sad tho that there was only one grey knight player in the tournament... That grand tournament heat? I thought it had no Grey Knight players? I still think some people play like it's 7th edition. I run into it all the time. Even now.... That Guilliman list... I've used him many times (for competitive testing purposes with friends that were planning for it) all that list is about is spamming Razors and re-roll everything. I'll tell you one thing.. it's fantastically boring to play. You play it for one tournament and I really don't have any desire to use it again. The thing with Grey Knights is you're always under the gun to make the right move. All things being equal it's a good army for all comers if you like the risk/reward style. Personally I've been trying to play more and build more into my GK but it's been hard to stay focused for me only because there's this 'grass is greener' mentality and I have too many armies that I rotate constantly. For me it's not about winning every game, it's more about playing one list. I do think GK got more options this time around though, and some of them work in a lot of list types. Aothaine 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4927838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Interesting! Where can I find that battle report? Edit: nvm I found it. It makes me sad tho that there was only one grey knight player in the tournament... That grand tournament heat? I thought it had no Grey Knight players? I still think some people play like it's 7th edition. I run into it all the time. Even now.... Heat 1 definitely had 1 GK player. From what was told of the GK army, it had 3 NDKGMs, 1 Stormraven and at least a couple units of Interceptors , so a solid list so far. I wonder why GW wont release the GT army lists and rankings... Prot 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4927847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombs Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 What I'm strugglin with atm is the fact that we have so few competitive units and my pure gk lists are pretty much the same. On the other part when I watch at marines and dark angels I see soo many possibilities for listing and so many different types of strategies. Allying could be a solution, but I really dislike it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4927859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Yea I’m not a big ally guy myself which is why I just have limited Grey knight play. Though if I’m being honest. I really haven’t played a lot of variety from the codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4927864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I still think some people play like it's 7th edition. I run into it all the time. Even now.... Completely agree with you here. That Guilliman list... I've used him many times (for competitive testing purposes with friends that were planning for it) all that list is about is spamming Razors and re-roll everything. I'll tell you one thing.. it's fantastically boring to play. You play it for one tournament and I really don't have any desire to use it again. Also that list was something that was meant to just be competitive. Lewis "The Spider" even stated so. It is all sorts of cheese and most likely, if the rumors are true, won't be as bad after chapter approved releases. But still. It is a crazy strong list. There are still a few options that GKs have that make them scary good. But as Prot also stated, every move is important. I don't think it is a good starter army as it has a very high learning curve for a space marine army. Most elite marine armies do. Look ad Deathwatch for another example here. Prot 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Yea... one of my main armies.... Deathwatch. Wow. Almost completely unplayable in a competitive environment. Point costing issues and limitations that make Grey Knights feel OP! ;) Seriously though I haven't said this here, but my feeling with Grey Knights is they are like Deathwatch with purpose and flexibility. The GK still get cool guns, great options for deployment (I still use Pods with my Deathwatch!), cool unique units: NDK, Dreads, etc. I actually prefer the Stormraven to the Corvus as well. I think while Guilliman Gunline exists, any army is hard pressed to compete especially with any marines. Aothaine 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Heh at least DW get all the Primaris units! You can field hellblasters! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Heh at least DW get all the Primaris units! You can field hellblasters! The most important Primaris they get is the Apothecary imho. Bringing back models that cost your left leg is nice. Especially when you're bringing back one of the TH+SS Terminators that sponge small arms fire for the kill team. But it will be interesting to see what Chapter Approved does to the meta. So happy that GW is finally updating their rules again! ^_^ Prot 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Heh at least DW get all the Primaris units! You can field hellblasters! The most important Primaris they get is the Apothecary imho. Bringing back models that cost your left leg is nice. Especially when you're bringing back one of the TH+SS Terminators that sponge small arms fire for the kill team. But it will be interesting to see what Chapter Approved does to the meta. So happy that GW is finally updating their rules again! Agreed. That's the only Primaris I use in DW. (And I do have them all to choose from.) Ironically the GK don't need that one. (I just retired my Primaris out of frustration as well.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Agreed. That's the only Primaris I use in DW. (And I do have them all to choose from.) Ironically the GK don't need that one. (I just retired my Primaris out of frustration as well.) Sad day. :( Love the models and the idea of them. I think they will work really good in some lists. Raven Guard and Ultramarines mainly. We'll see if Dark Angels and Blood Angels add any spice to them though. Two attack marines might be really good if Blood Angels get some nifty strats and tactics to help boost assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Well chapter approved alleges some point reductions for Primaris. Perhaps the same will happen for some Grey Knight stuff! I think that Guilliman Gunline will take a bit of a hit on the Razorbacks which may force some alternatives for ultra players. Judging from Tyranids they seem to be a true meta changer and the whole Guilliman-gunline may take care of itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Shock horror killshot preds replace razors! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Shock horror killshot preds replace razors! ;) Razorbacks are so much better though. Just kill one predator and that’s it for killshot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I donno. 190 for 4 LC shots. Or 115 for 2. The strat is just an extra bonus on top. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombs Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 Ye predators are really nasty. Expecially with DA. Gunline with azrael and darkshroud equals -1 to hit and 4+ invuln. Good luck killing those preddy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I donno. 190 for 4 LC shots. Or 115 for 2. The strat is just an extra bonus on top. I meant Assault Cannon Razorbacks. I should have been more obvious but I think the fact no one takes the three preds in tournaments is proof enough for me, but I have tried it. Also if these chapter approved rumours are true even GW figured this all out as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341043-how-do-you-guys-deal-with-girlyman/#findComment-4928678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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