Correct way to measure non movement vertical distance

[Gentlemanloser]

We're told for movement to measure vertical distance seperately to horizontal.

 

But how does it work for other measurements, like shooting or psychic powers?

 

As an example you have a squad 9" up on the top of a large building. When measuring thier weapon range to a unit on the ground do you take vertical height into account?

 

If so, do you measure in a direct line, or like movement have to measure down then across?

[Dam13n]

See "Tools of War" on page 176 of the rulebook. Edited November 5, 2017 by Dam13n

[Gentlemanloser]

Closest points of the two bases doesn't answer the question.

 

How do you measure the distance between the closest points?

 

Edit. We're not told to measure the closest route, which would be a direct line.

 

Is vertical distance ignored?

Edited November 5, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Dam13n]

It's a straight line between the two points.

 

I know it's not spelled out, but that's what's implied by the rules. Otherwise, why bother saying "the closest points of the bases".

[Gentlemanloser]

Does it include vertical distance?

 

The question was raised becuase of how movement vertically is measured.

 

And the head scratching of a unit at the top of a building being out of range of a plane as the flying base is on the ground.

 

Closest point still makes sense. So folk don't try to claim you have to measure to the back of the base for a unit to be fully in range. Regardless of how you measure the distance. ;)

Edited November 5, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Ciler]

Closest points of the two bases doesn't answer the question.

How do you measure the distance between the closest points?

Edit. We're not told to measure the closest route, which would be a direct line.

Is vertical distance ignored?

Closest points means a straight line. That's actually the mathematical definition of a straight line.

 

Movement is the exception, NOT the rule.

[Gentlemanloser]

I don't disagree here.

 

But closest points does not mean a straight line.

 

You can measure to each of the closest points in either fashion.

 

And they would still be the closest points to each base.

 

Just not by the smallest distance.

 

 

And we're all in agreement that vertical distance does matter? And being on the top of a high terrain feature can put you out of range of units like fliers where we measure range to the ground.

[Dam13n]

It does matter, when measuring to/from a model that is at a different height from another you'll be measuring a line that runs diagonal to the ground. So height will make a difference.

[Quixus]

I don't disagree here.

 

But closest points does not mean a straight line.

 

You can measure to each of the closest points in either fashion.

 

And they would still be the closest points to each base.

 

Just not by the smallest distance.

You can only do that if you measure across a point that is not on the straight line ©. We are not instructed to measure from such a point.

 

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[Servant of Dante]

Edit; not relevant

 

Anyway I would assume that measuring using a straight line is rather implied. That’s how distance between objects is measured (unless you’re talking about, like, the overland distance between 2 cities in which case you generally measure the travel distance rather than a straight line since the straight line would pas below the surface of the earth . . . but this isn’t that :D )

Edited November 6, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Gentlemanloser]

Exactly quixus.

 

And while we agree that movement is the execption, why?

 

In the whole of the BRB there is a single line mentioning vertical movement. It's the only reference to it and the only detail on how to parse it in game.

 

Why do we take this as the exception and not the rule?

 

Measuring all distances as you would movement satisfies 'closest points of two bases' and that is exactly how you would measure from base to base for charge distance from a unit on the ground to a unit in the upper level of a ruin.

 

If only tools of war mentioned the shortest distance between the two closest points of two bases...

[Ciler]

Exactly quixus.

 

And while we agree that movement is the execption, why?

Because precisely, the movement phase is the only phase in which a special way to account for vertical distances is introduced. Ergo, it is an exception.

[Gentlemanloser]

Exception to what?

 

The rules don't cover vertical distance anywhere else.

[Brother Casman]

Well, when measuring to shoot something, I tend to measure the distance between the closest points on the bases of the models in question. Which, mathematically, ends up being a straight line, I believe. Sometimes, due to the 3d nature of the battlefield, the line ends up being diagonal, relative to the "ground".

 

For example, when my model is 8" away horizontally (from the enemy model), and 6" up in a ruin, the straight line between the two models ends up being 10" long. Not quite close enough to set the enemy on fire, unfortunately.

[Rosco151]

The rules to cover vertical distance are not required anywhere else - they are movement-specific. They are not an exception to the rules in the literal sense of the word, as they do not omit part of an existing rule. They are an addition to the standard rules for movement.

 

If I want to climb a vertical obstacle, I must first cross the lateral distance to a point where I can ascend the vertical distance. Hence, I walk from from my current position to, say the base of a wall. I then climb the vertical distance to reach the top of the wall. In order for a typical infantry model with a 6" move to ascend a 3" object, they must be within about 2" - 2" lateral movement to reach the wall, 3" vertical movement to reach the top, about 1" for the base to move laterally onto the top of the object - otherwise they will be suspended in the air.

 

There are specific rules in unit entries where vertical distance is ignored for movement - jump infantry, grapnel launchers, etc... They are the exception to the standard movement rules and the act of transit vertical distance.

 

[Gentlemanloser]

Exceptions to the Exceptions!

 

Again how can the movement rules be classed an exception, when there are no other vertical distances rules anywhere else?

 

What are they an exception too?

[Dam13n]

In this case the RAW isn't clear, but the concensus (so far) is that the RAI is pretty obvious. So, I would suggest that this question be put to GW via their community Facebook page. As it seems very unlikely that this is going to be resolved here, will become a circular discussion, and will end up locked.

[Rosco151]

As I said above - the rules for vertical movement are not an exception. They are an additional guidance on how to conduct that very specific type of movement.

 

It is inaccurate to refer to them as an exception. They are additional clarification on how to conduct a specific action according to the existing rules.

[Holier Than Thou]

 

Exactly quixus.

 

And while we agree that movement is the execption, why?

Because precisely, the movement phase is the only phase in which a special way to account for vertical distances is introduced. Ergo, it is an exception.

 

 

The subject of vertical distance is indeed only mentioned in the Movement Phase section. What about charging in the Charge Phase? Do you measure a straight line for the distance between the charging unit and it's target as there is no mention of vertical movement in this section?

Edited November 8, 2017 by Holier Than Thou

[Gentlemanloser]

If you ignore the movement rules in other phases the game stats to break.

 

It allows you to charge through enemy units (or your own land raiders) for example.

[Ciler]

The subject of vertical distance is indeed only mentioned in the Movement Phase section. What about charging in the Charge Phase? Do you measure a straight line for the distance between the charging unit and it's target as there is no mention of vertical movement in this section?

Charge movement follows regular movement rules, obviously.

[Holier Than Thou]

 

The subject of vertical distance is indeed only mentioned in the Movement Phase section. What about charging in the Charge Phase? Do you measure a straight line for the distance between the charging unit and it's target as there is no mention of vertical movement in this section?

Charge movement follows regular movement rules, obviously.

 

Although I agree the intention is for this, where does it say charge movement follows the regular movement rules? It tells you in the Movement Phase rules that vertical distance is counted, makes reference to a model's movement stat and states that models cannot finish within 1" of enemy models. In the Charge Phase it has different rules for finishing within 1" of enemy models, makes no mention of movement stats but instead advises of a different way to calculate the allowed movement of the charge and makes absolutely no mention of vertical movement. So charge movement clearly does not follow regular movement rules.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Holier Than Thou

[Gentlemanloser]

Then you charge through enemy units and assault units that have been bubble wrapped.

 

After charging through your own lr so you don't suffer any overwatch.

 

Edit. These little kinks could have been so easily avoided though.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Gentlemanloser