Daemon princes in 8th?

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Greetings,

In short: what’s the ‘best’ way to run a daemon prince these days?

 

I’ve got an unfinished model that’s been sitting on my desk for too long, unarmed both figuratively and literary speaking. He has wings though. The army he is destined to join is a “semi-casual all-comers” kind of list, and he is to be devoted to Slaanesh.

 

The default sword sure looks delicious, especially for taking down characters and vehicles (due to the high D value) It does lose some damage to overkill when chopping down primaris or regular troops (as if more damage can ever be a bad thing... ^^)

 

The axe is brutal, but I’m scared of -1 to hit. Yes I am aware that he’ll still hit with most of his attacks, but... the dice gods can be cruel even before negative modifiers... on the other hand, +1 str does wonders for the wound-roll, both for cleaving marines and opening up tanks.

 

Dual talons gives him a bucketload of attack’s, and while each attack is weaker than with the other options, the sheer number of them has to count for something, right? Against non-characters D2 is most often enough, with each successful attack taking down a primaris marine or terminator.

 

There is also the issue of psychic powers... buffing his strength with diabolic strength improves his vehicle-killing capabilities, now that monstrous creatures can’t smash anymore. Feel no pain through the slaaneshi spell, or an extra move, could also come in handy, as can the death hex, and... yeah... the daemon prince will be accompanied by a sorcerer most of the time, so he won’t be my sole spell-caster.

 

Perhaps I’m overthinking this? “Every option is good enough, go with what you think looks best”

 

I am a bit lost, and would appreciate thoughts and feedback from others. How do others play their princes, what works and what doesn’t, and so on...

 

Thanks in advance!

[MasterDeath]

Since the chaos codex the weapon options are all viable, but most people seem to say the claws are best. I use him with sword personally, as I use them as a Tank/Monster Hunter. (I use the DG daemon prince, not the chaos one). For spells the extra move is extremely strong, as you can assassinate a character or important unit first turn or bind a tank or something similar instantly. 

About your sorceror, unless you give him a jump pack, he wont be able to keep pace and that could leave your sorceror quiet exposed. (Disc of Tzeentch or Steed of Slaanesh from the index could also work)

[Gurmec]

I recently played a mini-league with a few friends and tried a different combination and warlord trait etc.

 

Black Legion

Daemon Prince with wings

Mark of Tzeentch

Pair of Malefic Talons

Eye of the Night

Warlord Trait: Flames of Spite

 

All I can say is: do not underestimate the Flames of Spite warlord trait on a Daemon Prince with 7 attacks (before Death to the False Emperor). I managed a couple of times throughout my 3 games to inflict an additional 2-3 mortal wounds in addition to 6-7 wounds against infantry etc.

 

He is a great all rounder - Can cast smite, and with 1 CP for Mark of Tzeentch psyker, he can cast a second spell. He has a once per battle 2+ to hit shooting attack that does D3 mortal wounds on a vehicle, and he is beastly in combat. Seriously, the mortal wounds really helped. Obviously If you take him as a World eaters DP he gets +1 attack for Khorne and +1 attack for charging as per the legion trait, giving him 9 attacks and additional chances to get those 6's for extra mortal wounds, but the flexibility of having him as a psyker aswell is fantastic.

 

There are alot of different ways you can build DP's, all of which are good. Personally, the Pair of Malefic Talons wins it for me every time, and I use heavy weaponry to deal with tanks etc. Depends on playstyle and rest of army composition.

[bozo69pd]

I prefer DG or IW prince with the 2+ armor relic, wings, and malefic talons. Talons are good against any model, as opposed to taking a weapon thats good for tanks but bad for infantry etc. Warp bolter on the IW one (unfortunately DG doesn't get the option for some reason). 

[TrueRevanchist]

I have a Khorne DP with wings, dual claws, warp bolter. 8 attacks is great! 9 when buffed with diabolic strength. I also have a tzeentch DP with axe, warp bolter, wings. Honestly, whatever floats your boat, but each variety is valid. Just get them up close as fast as you can.

 

Both of them are IW.

Edited November 8, 2017 by TrueRevanchist

[Doom Herald]

In my opinion, 2 sets Malefic Talons is the best meele set up. The sword and axe are WAY over-priced compared to 2 talons. With wings, the talons are only 180. The other 2 will bump your prince up over 200. If he is a dedicated HEAVY slayer, it might be worth taking but the small offensive benefits are not worth 30ish extra points and losing 2 attacks that already have good AP Strength and Damage.

[Sception]

Actually, the codex pretty much fixed the cost issue between claws and talons, the're all the same now iirc.  Talons are still the best, but if you prefer sword or axe for aesthetics you're no longer shooting yourself in the foot.

[Panzer]

^ this

[Closet Skeleton]

The Intoxicating Elixir makes the axe worthless on Slaanesh princes. The axe also screws you over if you want Death to the False Emperor attacks.

 

Remember that a Prince gets one talon attack anyway, so dual talons is only +2 attacks not +3 attacks like some people think. Talons are still technically the best option since the average wounds you cause are about the same either way. If you use the flames of spite warlord trait then the talons get even better while the +1 attack from the exalted champion trait benefits a sword/axe more (khorne princes follow the same logic but oddly the extra attack from the Slaanesh elixir doesn't because the +1 strength makes the claws more efficient as well).

 

Prince Builds

 

Tyranid skull collector

World Eaters prince with axe, talisman of burning blood and Slaughterborn warlord trait. When there aren't tons of Carnifexes to charge and butcher he's not so great but every now and then he starts out with 6 Str 8 dm3 -3 ap (and one str 7 dmg2 -2 ap one) attacks on the charge and then just gets better from there. The incredibly heretically inclined can pair him with an allied Slaanesh Alpha legion jump pack sorcerer with warptime and prescience.

 

Renegade "how did he get there again?" prince

Warptime, wings, renegade chapter tactics. Sword or claws doesn't matter, don't make his the warlord since he will get counter attacked to death because his only job is to move 24"+2d6 and then charge something. Make him mark of slaanesh and give him the elixir only if you have nothing less suicidal to give those two. You can do the same thing with the talisman of burning blood but khorne princes are inferior. Alternatively pair him up with a cavalry or chariot herald and a ton a warptalons for a fast and non-suicidal version.

 

Iron Warriors bullet magnet

Mark of tzeentch and weaver of fates power or mark of nurgle and miasma of pestilence power, maybe even the Slaanesh power, doesn't matter because they all do the same thing. For extra hilarity if you make him nurgle why not summon a Herald so he can heal even more. Give him the unholy fortitude warlord trait, the Fleshmetal Exoskeleton, keep him around line of sight blocking terrain and just weave him in and out of line of sight to piss your opponent off. Warning, may not work more than once.

 

Black legion primaris butcherer.

Mark of Slaanesh, intoxicating elixir, dual talons, First among traitors warlord trait, prescience. Technically spammable because the Black Legion trait is an aura and you can use diabolic strength to double up for the elixir.

 

Emperor's children prince

Intoxicating elixir (again), stimulated by pain trait, rounded off with a sword to take advantage of the fact that you've got enough attacks anyway, deathhex power. Have a pal with diabolic strength and Delightful agonies ready since.

 

Night Lords Axemaster

The Night Haunter's Curse trait lets you reroll any hit roll not just successful ones so is an actual combo with that -1 to hit axe. Is that actually good? Not really but its another thing.

 

Bel'akor

He's still good in a CSM list if you use him with possessed and warp talons. Take him in a battalion with a herald for +1 strength and 3 units of nurglings for board control.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Closet Skeleton

[Galron]

I don't like daemon princes but I have a Perterabo model I use with my IW. I give him the warp bolters and the axe(hammer). I don't even know what mark I give him, its silly I am forced to do so. As a unit buffer I give him Prescience. He moves up with my main thrust providing bubble and buff and then helps in CC. Fleshmetal exoskeleton as well.

[Mekhitar]

If you fight a lot of ultramarines (I do!), you may get mileage out of the 3 dmg of a sword or ax against characters who halve damage taken. It makes the weapon 2x as effective on ththe damage stat rather than 1.5x.

[Panzer]

I honestly don't think there's much difference between taking any of the options unless you plan to send the prince against hordes (talons), medium multi wound units or units with good armor (sword) or high T units like tanks and monsters (axe).

Against regular infantry they should all do about the same amount of damage with the axe being a bit more unreliable and the talons being more reliable due having more attacks.

[Panzer]

The Intoxicating Elixir makes the axe worthless on Slaanesh princes. The axe also screws you over if you want Death to the False Emperor attacks.

 

Remember that a Prince gets one talon attack anyway, so dual talons is only +2 attacks not +3 attacks like some people think. Talons are still technically the best option since the average wounds you cause are about the same either way. If you use the flames of spite warlord trait then the talons get even better while the +1 attack from the exalted champion trait benefits a sword/axe more (khorne princes follow the same logic but oddly the extra attack from the Slaanesh elixir doesn't because the +1 strength makes the claws more efficient as well).

The talons are +3 on the attack stat on the datasheet. Yes they're only +2 attacks compared with having already one Talon equipped but I don't think anybody confused those things. Rather that people forget that they have a free Talon attack even if their Prince is equipped with a Sword or Axe. ^^

 

The Axe also isn't entirely pointless in combination with the Elixir. It lets you wound T8 on 3+ instead of 4+ and honestly, if you take an Axe those kind of units should be the target for your Prince.

Edited November 14, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Closet Skeleton]

 

The Intoxicating Elixir makes the axe worthless on Slaanesh princes. The axe also screws you over if you want Death to the False Emperor attacks.

 

Remember that a Prince gets one talon attack anyway, so dual talons is only +2 attacks not +3 attacks like some people think. Talons are still technically the best option since the average wounds you cause are about the same either way. If you use the flames of spite warlord trait then the talons get even better while the +1 attack from the exalted champion trait benefits a sword/axe more (khorne princes follow the same logic but oddly the extra attack from the Slaanesh elixir doesn't because the +1 strength makes the claws more efficient as well).

The talons are +3 on the attack stat on the datasheet. Yes they're only +2 attacks compared with having already one Talon equipped but I don't think anybody confused those things. Rather that people forget that they have a free Talon attack even if their Prince is equipped with a Sword or Axe. ^^

 

The Axe also isn't entirely pointless in combination with the Elixir. It lets you wound T8 on 3+ instead of 4+ and honestly, if you take an Axe those kind of units should be the target for your Prince.

 

If you want to wound T8 on 3s just cast diabolic strength, then you don't need the Elixir. Or just be a lord with a chainfist if you're obsessed with being S8 and wounding on 3s.

 

The point is that there's too many sources of strength buffs to choose the -1 to hit one. The -3 AP on the axe also don't matter against stuff with invulnerable saves.

[Panzer]

 

 

The Intoxicating Elixir makes the axe worthless on Slaanesh princes. The axe also screws you over if you want Death to the False Emperor attacks.

 

Remember that a Prince gets one talon attack anyway, so dual talons is only +2 attacks not +3 attacks like some people think. Talons are still technically the best option since the average wounds you cause are about the same either way. If you use the flames of spite warlord trait then the talons get even better while the +1 attack from the exalted champion trait benefits a sword/axe more (khorne princes follow the same logic but oddly the extra attack from the Slaanesh elixir doesn't because the +1 strength makes the claws more efficient as well).

The talons are +3 on the attack stat on the datasheet. Yes they're only +2 attacks compared with having already one Talon equipped but I don't think anybody confused those things. Rather that people forget that they have a free Talon attack even if their Prince is equipped with a Sword or Axe. ^^

 

The Axe also isn't entirely pointless in combination with the Elixir. It lets you wound T8 on 3+ instead of 4+ and honestly, if you take an Axe those kind of units should be the target for your Prince.

 

If you want to wound T8 on 3s just cast diabolic strength, then you don't need the Elixir. Or just be a lord with a chainfist if you're obsessed with being S8 and wounding on 3s.

 

The point is that there's too many sources of strength buffs to choose the -1 to hit one. The -3 AP on the axe also don't matter against stuff with invulnerable saves.

 

The AP-2 of the Sword or Talon wouldn't matter against stuff with invul save either. I think the combination of Axe, elixir + Death Hex is very much viable for hunting big stuff.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Emperor's children prince

Intoxicating elixir (again), stimulated by pain trait, rounded off with a sword to take advantage of the fact that you've got enough attacks anyway, deathhex power. Have a pal with diabolic strength and Delightful agonies ready since.

 

 

This, this is good.

 

I use delightfull agony to keep the garde of my prince a little more reliable. But death hex is great when confronting lots of Termi

[oreaper84]

I ran world eaters in a Tourney recently and i had a DP as my 2nd HQ in the battalion. With an Axe and the Exalted Champ WL trait he was rocking 7 swings on the charge with a -3/3 dmg weapon (and also the talon swing...which i forgot to do more than once)....and he usually got there b/c people were rightfully focused on Khârn's land raider and a lord of skulls. He annihilates vehicles and almost always does the 2 wounds needed to kill a character regardless of invul save. 

[Stargazer1st]

What would you guys think of using a heresy primarch model to represent a daemon prince in 40k? I'm looking at trying to use my 30k night lords for 40k and thought it would be a cool way to get kurse onto the tabletop.

[Azekai]

What would you guys think of using a heresy primarch model to represent a daemon prince in 40k? I'm looking at trying to use my 30k night lords for 40k and thought it would be a cool way to get kurse onto the tabletop.

I think a daemon prince statline is about the only tolerable way to portray the Night Haunter in 40k. Go bananas, I say!

[adreal]

What would you guys think of using a heresy primarch model to represent a daemon prince in 40k? I'm looking at trying to use my 30k night lords for 40k and thought it would be a cool way to get kurse onto the tabletop.

Pretty much how I play my alpharius as well

[Panzer]

That's what I'd definitely do as long as there's no actual Primarch model of those in 40k. 

[Stargazer1st]

He would need wings and twin talons. But the question is do i make him a pysker. I can justify it on a fluff stand point due to is precognative visions, yet I'm not sure which keyword to gove him to enable that. Edited November 18, 2017 by Stargazer1st

[Panzer]

I'd definitely make him Slaanesh in that case. Always striking first sounds very fitting for precognative visions even without using any psychic powers.

[Stargazer1st]

I'd definitely make him Slaanesh in that case. Always striking first sounds very fitting for precognative visions even without using any psychic powers.

I love the idea. But (forgive my ignorance, only got the chaos marine codex recently) i can't see where it says that being slannesh gives that ability. Again sorry for any ignorance.

[helterskelter]

There's a lass called "Jupiter lightning" on Instagram that's made a demon primarch Curze, it's not a bad conversion at all, uses demon Magnus as a base. Go check it.