Chapter Approved

[Jorre]

If you check faeit you will see there are some rumours circling on chapter approved.

 

This may give us some indication on BA points levels at release.

 

Things I noticed

 

1.Inceptors dropped 50 points with assault bolters

 

2.Interssesors have dropped 10 points for 5. Does this make them a viable troop choice?

 

3. Razorbacks have gone up, so have assault cannons.

 

4. Drop pods have come down by 15 points.

 

5. Whirlwinds have come down.

[Jorre]

Looks like librarians have dropped in price as well as their force weapons!

 

Also I should add that you should take tgis with a grain of salt as it isnt confirmed yet!

[Brother Crimson]

I hope most of theses changes are true. Intercessor cost more than assault Reivers for no obvious reason.

Razorbacks spam is there for a reason. I fear assault canon might hurt baal pred if it cost is not adjusted.

Drop Pod already got its cost down with marine codex and still I rarely see them.

If force weapon cost less maybe our Encarmine will too.

[Pendent]

The price drop for Inceptors is a welcome change. They'll be quite usable and possibly a good replacement for my stormbolter vets.

Still not sure that's enough of a drop for drop pods but we'll have to see.

 

Overall, assuming these are accurate, good changes. More than anything I'd like to see Primaris using normal transports though, or at least gaining some options that aren't repulsors.

[Jorre]

Hellblasters in a drop pod would be pretty sweet wouldnt it!

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

The whirlwind is really nice now, especially at the discount. I'd say most improved SM unit hands down.

[Frater Cornelius]

Nice touch, but ultimately pointless as it does not address the core of the issue, for example inferior vehicle rules.

 

Edit: And the lack of Inceptors and Aggressors won't be fixed, because how squishy they are. 2D and D3 weapons are too common.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Frater Cornelius

[The Unseen]

I don't think razors are too cheap, I think rhinos and predators are to expensive.

And twin assault cannons are one of the only decent ways to kill massed infantry these days.

Otherwise decent.

Drop pods need more like a drop of 50 pts to be considered imo.

 

And unless I missed something in the codex, whirlwinds damage output is still pathetic and therefore remains not worth the heavy slot, much less worth its points

[Frater Cornelius]

Yeah, this is just a band-aid. Better than nothing though. Baal Preds need a point drop though, especially since the twin assault cannon will rise in price. The issue with Razors is that they are just better than anything else. True, the tanks could be better, but this is what we have right now.

[Jorre]

3 whirlwinds for say 250ish points and a cheap hq... say techmarine might actually be a good way to fill out a heavy support detachment and get a extra command point

[Karhedron]

Assuming all of these are true, I would all are steps in the right direction but only baby-steps. The only one that looks like it gets enough of a price change to be worth considering are Inceptors. At 180 points for a squad of 3 they were just laughable, at 130 they might be viable. I thought Intercessors were OK but a 10% discount is welcome. I was happy to field a squad before and will consider a second I think.

 

The change is not enough for Drop pods, they need to come down to around 70 points to compete with a Rhino before they are worth considering. Part of the problem is the lack of units that can really benefit from them.

[Eire]

Good points drop here, especially echoing others with the Inceptors. I put them together from Dark Imperium, did up a list and thought... wow... thats way too much for what you get there and shelved them. I'd love to bring them back :)

[Pendent]

Out of all the Primaris units we've seen so far Inceptros seem like they're the most useful for us so having them at a usable price point would be incredible. I'll take three, please.

[Bremon]

Cheaper Intercessors would tempt me to use them again. I’ve shelved all my Primaris currently in favour of mini marines. Inceptors were played for 3 games and then ent away, Intercessors lasted a little longer. I have some aggressors to assemble yet.

[Closet Skeleton]

I hope most of theses changes are true. Intercessor cost more than assault Reivers for no obvious reason.

 

Assault Reivers are pretty bad so they should cost less than Intercessors.

 

 

Nice touch, but ultimately pointless as it does not address the core of the issue, for example inferior vehicle rules.

Edit: And the lack of Inceptors and Aggressors won't be fixed, because how squishy they are. 2D and D3 weapons are too common.

 

Glass cannons are glass cannons for a reason. Aggressors get deleted as a priority because they're too dangerous to let live, making them harder to kill would just make them soak up more firepower it wouldn't keep them alive.

 

40k vehicle rules have always been terrible, 8th ed took away a ton of flavour but when the 'good' vehicles in 7th ed were the ones with monstrous creature rules I hope you can forgive those of us who are not mourning being able to lose a 250 point land raider to one shot (and not even that lucky a shot when melta was involved).

Edited November 8, 2017 by Closet Skeleton

[Karhedron]

Everything seems to be a glass cannon in 8th edition because most units have increased their rate of damage output more than their durability. My friend and I ran a 2000 point game yesterday and we both brought a Knight to the table (Crusader on my side, sword'n'board Wraithknight on his). Both were gone by the end of Turn 2.

 

Unless you can stack multiple durability benefits like DG, you will have to accept that if your opponent really wants a particular unit dead, he can usually make it happen. The trick is not so much about keeping units alive but keeping them alive long enough to do their job. Hence the proliferation of Deep striking heavy weapons units like Scions and BA command squads.

 

Inceptors need to be dropped on the flanks so that they can eliminate support units without suffering too much retribution. Aggressors really need a Repulsor to act as a delivery mechanism and even then, they really only work well with the UM chapter trait.

[Pendent]

Inceptors are slightly more durable than stormbolter command squads and have a smaller footprint on the table, which allows for more aggressive placement. Karhedronuk is completely correct though in that if your opponent wants an infantry squad dead it's going to die. If they decide to shoot multi-damage weapons at a disposable infantry killer instead of my tanks for a turn I'll be happy.

 

I really hope these rumors are true because I was being completely serious- 130 pts for 18 heavy bolter shots wherever you need them, whenever you need them is a bargain. I wasn't kidding at all when I said I'll take three, possibly with Dante.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

And unless I missed something in the codex, whirlwinds damage output is still pathetic and therefore remains not worth the heavy slot, much less worth its points

 

EDIT - with new points per the rumored adjustment:

 

I dunno... for either 95, or 104 points were talking 2D6 S6 shots (not needing LOS!) or 2D3 S7 AP-1(2 damage) shots (not needing LOS!)... looks incredibly solid to me.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Actually the rumor says 5 point further reduction from SM codex, so even better!

[Indefragable]

Rather than a points reduction, i hope Predators get stats and abilities worthy of...oh...i don’t know...a tank.

 

T8. Or T7 2+. Shoot twice or no penalty to move + shoot.

 

They need something.

[Pendent]

Rather than a points reduction, i hope Predators get stats and abilities worthy of...oh...i don’t know...a tank.

 

T8. Or T7 2+. Shoot twice or no penalty to move + shoot.

 

They need something.

 

Yeah, comparing a Leman Russ of basically any variant these days to a Predator is pretty depressing.

[Panzer]

 

Rather than a points reduction, i hope Predators get stats and abilities worthy of...oh...i don’t know...a tank.

 

T8. Or T7 2+. Shoot twice or no penalty to move + shoot.

 

They need something.

 

Yeah, comparing a Leman Russ of basically any variant these days to a Predator is pretty depressing.

 

And here I am sitting with my Hammerhead wishing it were as good as a LasPred. 

[Frater Cornelius]

@ the Wrhilwind comments - It's not worth it, considering most things worth shooting in cover have a 3+ or 2+ as a result. Only heavy weapon teams are worth shooting with it. Besides, D6 is very inconsistent. This is one of the reasons Marines do not work in 8th. They are supposed to be elite but reliable, yet Lascannons fail because of a lucky 6 or the damage roll or amount of shots can be very low when you need it most. Everything with D6 is generally not suited for Marines, because you do not have the bodies to arrive at the average across the army.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Frater Cornelius

[Closet Skeleton]

Everything seems to be a glass cannon in 8th edition because most units have increased their rate of damage output more than their durability. My friend and I ran a 2000 point game yesterday and we both brought a Knight to the table (Crusader on my side, sword'n'board Wraithknight on his). Both were gone by the end of Turn 2.

 

Unless you can stack multiple durability benefits like DG, you will have to accept that if your opponent really wants a particular unit dead, he can usually make it happen. The trick is not so much about keeping units alive but keeping them alive long enough to do their job. Hence the proliferation of Deep striking heavy weapons units like Scions and BA command squads.

 

Lone Imperial Super Heavies died that quickly in 7th ed too most of the time.

 

DG can't really protect their units either, 4++ saves and low model count tend to mean that they're survivable until the luck runs out and then they're all gone, the durable stuff in 8th ed is the stuff that can avoid being targeted at all which usually means terrain and positioning. The stuff I see really last tends to be things that can get a 2+ save in cover while being too minor a threat to attract anything but anti-infantry fire.

 

 

And unless I missed something in the codex, whirlwinds damage output is still pathetic and therefore remains not worth the heavy slot, much less worth its points

 

I dunno... for either 100, or 109 points were talking 2D6 S6 shots (not needing LOS!) or 2D3 S7 AP-1(2 damage) shots (not needing LOS!)... looks incredibly solid to me.

 

 

Damage wise that's still just a bad twin assault cannon or a bad predator autocannon. I'm sure if you can keep them safe that will add up over a 6 turn game but there's a reason why all the imperial players who want artillery ally in catachans anyway.

 

Whirlwind Scorpius are really good though.

 

 

 

Rather than a points reduction, i hope Predators get stats and abilities worthy of...oh...i don’t know...a tank.

 

T8. Or T7 2+. Shoot twice or no penalty to move + shoot.

 

They need something.

 

Yeah, comparing a Leman Russ of basically any variant these days to a Predator is pretty depressing.

 

 

One is a light to medium tank the other is a heavy tank. Its not like Predators are hiding in disgrace at the comparative prowess of hellhounds.

[Frater Cornelius]

Only that a Predator costs more than a fully geared Leman Russ. If they want a medium battle tank? Sure, but then at least price it appropriately.