Ultramarines vs Extreme armies

[The Wolfguard]

Hey there, 

 

 

So I have a few questions really. I've been really struggling in my transition from 7th to 8th edition in sorting out lists. Mostly I only verse a few different lists however most of my lists have been 'vs allcomers' lists and I'm unsure of what to do. I'm fed up of losing but I don't want to start tailoring my lists to certain opponents.

 

For some context, I have one friend that has a mass ork infantry list, and he also has an all dunecrawler mechanicum list. I played vs his Mechanicum yesterday 1000 points and got stomped due to his 5 dunecrawlers + 1 hq + 1 squad. Where as my only anti tank was 5 lascannons and 5 termies (one with chainfist). The lascannons got instantly popped and then it was just well, very downhill. My army was mostly intercessors apart from that. I lost to his orks for the same reason in that I had some anti-mob but not enough..

 

 

I'm wondering, what are the best choices vs these extreme lists? I know which list he will be taking as we normally decide our race before hand and tell each other. Should I be tailoring my list? I've not been using Guilliman at all but losing has just been making me want to take him but I don't really want to use him as just a crutch? 

 

Do I carry on making all comer lists? Also what are the most cost efficient anti-mob and anti-tank choices? Is it razorbacks all round or is there better choices?

Thanks for reading, sorry if my question has been answered! The Ultramarines are masters of tactics and it feels each game I play is just me floundering because I've already lost in the list building phase...

[GreyCrow]

What is your definition of extreme lists ? List with high repetition of units ?

 

It is what the game is about in 8th, more so than previous editions (although, there was a bit of that already).

 

But there is comfort, brother ! Take all comers does not mean that you HAVE to have a wide variety of units to take on all the threats that are posted against you.

 

And there is a reason for that : most units have the ability to deal with everything, albeit differently.

Think about it, even an army only made of Scouts can deal with tank heavy lists, just by throwing bodies at it. An army made of tanks can deal with a footslogging horde by being faster and tougher and outliving it.

Our dudes can carry weapons that are fitted on tanks. And just them with just as much efficiency.

 

Variety of unit works when a single type of unit is the only one able to deal with a specific threat due to it being the only one to carry a specific weaponry.

 

Redundancy, however, is key to survival, even now more than ever.

[The Wolfguard]

By extreme lists I'm talking either all tanks, all infantry, or even all fliers or the like, anything that's an army of 'one' type deal. The problem is I run mostly Primaris armies so, take my 1000 point list, I had 20 intercessors, 5 las-cannons, 5 regular termies, a grav captain and lieutenant. I thought this was a pretty OK-ish allcomer list (obviously not competitive). Yet if my opponent had ran all tank, or all infantry it'd be boned due to not enough speciality right? Should I be tailoring that list more dependant on what I'm facing or trying to get to the point where I can make all comer lists win (which I can only think of doing with Guilliman?

 

I'm kind of unsure where to go with my army right now to be honest.

[GreyCrow]

I get where you are coming from ;)

 

What was carrying your lascannons ?

 

The biggest thing I see with your list is not that it's not an all comers list, but that your support units are diluted.

You have a strong core of Intercessors which is pretty good !

But you have half your support in long range and half of it in assault troops.

 

Look at it the other way around : keep your core of Intercessors + HQ but either double your Terminator force either double your lascannon power.

Or buy a squad of missiles for a more varied approaches.

 

You will have enough variety of damage to punch through what you want, but still enough spamming to force your opponent to deal with things.

[The Wolfguard]

Lascannons were in the form of 5 devestators, so four las cannons. I went first, managed to focus fire on one dunecrawler, put 9 wounds on it. He then managed to repair I think it was 5 of them wounds with a command point and his HQ. The lascannon squad in his turn (who were in cover) got then killed by 2/3 dunecrawlers shooting and I lost half a squad of intercessors too. 

 

I actually took the termies as a more anti-infantry type squad with their combibolters but looking back I didn't really need more anti infantry, figured I'd need the deepstrike to hit some of his men due to their range. The fact that one las cannon squad went down so quick lends me to the belief that even with two I would have taken out one dunecrawler on the first turn and then lost a full squad of las and most of the second.

 

Although looking back it's obvious I needed more las and less intercessors, but then I'd be having the opposite issues if my opponent was mass orks or the like right? Which means I'd be tailoring my list to that kind of style?

[GreyCrow]

So, Intercessors are pretty decent anti infantry from long range. You don't really need less Intercessors to be honest, 20 is still mighty good.

 

Were you running them full squad or 5 men strong?

 

Devastators with full heavy weapons have a big problem, they are a glass cannon. An expensive one at that because of the cost of the weapons.

Keeping the weapons 2 per 5 allows for them to handle a punch much better. You need to go through the chaff to get to the good stuff.

 

Here's a 1000 points list that would probably work and be brutal, and solve your problems!

 

HQ

Captain with CombiGrav

Lieutenant

 

Troops

5x5 Intercessors with normal bolt rifle

 

Heavy Support

3 x 5 Devastators with 2 Lascannons in each

 

6 Lascannons focusing fire is more than enough to destroy a target, with 3 signums that gives you an average of 9.99 wounds against T8- with a 3+ and no invulns.

I'm not even factoring in rerolls from Captains, Lieutenants or CP at this stage :)

 

Based on your feedback, you lost 5 Devastators and 2 (or 5? ) Primaris.

With the Devastators as above, you'd still have firepower from 4 Lascannons able to shoot.

[Bat33.1]

How much line of sight blocking terrrain is on the table? Playing with open fire fields against that many dunecrawlers is not nice even dropping units in his face is likely to fail if they end up in open ground as you might kill one but then loose your deep strikers in return.

 

Razorbacks are good for the points with assault cannons giving plenty of shots and many lists will include them or lascannon version for more punch. More wounds than your devestators higher toughness and more mobile but you want multiples, one will die to focus fire so take 2 or even better 3.

[The Wolfguard]

Yeah he killed 2 primaris and the las. The problem is he then repaired it back to full so if you say he caused 9 wounds that's leaving with 4 Las cannons who will do less damage to that one dune crawler still. I know you've not factored in cp and auras but he still has a 4++ with rerollable 1s.

 

I ran my intercessors as 5 man squads with a power weapon in each (Thought I'd try to make use of the ultramarine ct).

[Frater Cornelius]

As a point of reference, I run Primaris with Scout and all vehicles. Outside of named characters and Scouts I do not run any non-Primaris infantry.

 

All infantry wouldn't be an issue for Primaris. All tank and all flyer on the other hand is. The default answer is Guilliman. It is sad to say, but he alone keeps Primaris afloat in the current edition. I even run him in my 1250 lists if I know things are going to get hairy. If he gets banned, I switch to Calgar.

 

If Guilliman is not an option, there are a few things you can do. The main issue with SM in general and Primaris in particular is that their anti-tank sucks. LC sound good on paper, but after you've seen time and time again how the opponent saves it with a lucky 6 or you rolling a 1 on the damage, you'll understand. To be fair, I put flyer and vehicle spam in the same pot. It is the same issue of killing high T units, regardless of modifiers.

 

So, how to do it? I found Psychers to be fairly effective. At high point games I try to have at least one, even two if I run Guilliman. Smite and Psychic Scourge adds up quickly. As horrible Lascannons are, we have little choice in the matter. What matters is a reliable platform. I rate the Venerable Dread with Twin LC and ML for 165pts.

Speaking of reliability, Chronos in a Quad Las or AutoLas is pretty solid, but you need to hide it if you're not going first.

 

Rapid Fire Hellblasters with re-rolls are monsters. Overcharged and -4 with 2D is very good. Guilliman or just the basic re-roll from Lieutenant and Captain/Stratagem is very good. You can combine them with the Venerable Dread who can act as a Captain for one turn at the price of 1CP.

If you ars running Hellblasters, get the Primaris Ancient with the relic banner. You'd be surprised how many models you'll kill in the opponent's turn, especially with re-rolls.

 

Another solid thing you can do is bring a Repulsor. It reduces you drop count during deployment, it bring solid firepower and with Might of Heroes it becomes a massive bullet sponge. You can go and charge enemy tanks with it and they retreat and fire next turn because you have Fly. Overall a very solid model, though requires a bit of finesse to keep alive. I play the 283pts version. Nice and cheap with loads of dakka.

Going first is very important for Primaris and they have the tools to do it. Deploy defensively with the option to quickly switch to offense. I want to maximize alpha strike, so I run Assault 2 versions on Intercessors and Hellblasters, but since I run Guilliman I do not care for the loss of AP or S. The amount of shots is all that matters. You may want to consider sticking with Rapid Fire unless you can build a list that capitalizes on striking first and cripple the opponent.

 

Beyond this, Twin Las Razorbacks, Leviathan Dreads, Xiphon, WW Scorpius, the usual suspects. Though remember not to toss out all anti-infantry. This is why I like multipurpose models like the Hellblasters.

[The Wolfguard]

Wow, thanks for the in depth response! I've been wanting to get Guilliman for ages because I like having a 'centrepiece' model that isn't a simple tank. I wanted to pick up some psykers as well in truth. I'm just worried that taking Guilliman instantly makes me 'cheesy' or the like. I've always wanted to run a repulsor full of hellblasters too!

 

I suppose part of me is worried I'm going to get called a cheesy player who is only building to 'counter' who I'm against instead of trying to do an allcomers list. There's also the worry that there's loads of stuff I want to add to my army but there's still lots of gaps in my army too, I don't have any dedicated anti-horde (like assault cannons) nor do I have any decent amount of anti-tank. Yet I'm loving Primaris marines and want to pick up more, I guess I'll have to go through with a repulsor purchase or two.

[Bat33.1]

Have you considered Agressors for anti horde with the bolters they can put out plenty of shots and can be dropped in where you need them most.

[Frater Cornelius]

Wow, thanks for the in depth response! I've been wanting to get Guilliman for ages because I like having a 'centrepiece' model that isn't a simple tank. I wanted to pick up some psykers as well in truth. I'm just worried that taking Guilliman instantly makes me 'cheesy' or the like. I've always wanted to run a repulsor full of hellblasters too!

 

I suppose part of me is worried I'm going to get called a cheesy player who is only building to 'counter' who I'm against instead of trying to do an allcomers list. There's also the worry that there's loads of stuff I want to add to my army but there's still lots of gaps in my army too, I don't have any dedicated anti-horde (like assault cannons) nor do I have any decent amount of anti-tank. Yet I'm loving Primaris marines and want to pick up more, I guess I'll have to go through with a repulsor purchase or two.

 

I would reserve Bobby G for games you know to be cutthroat. However, while the Repulsor may seem powerful, it is not easy to play or keep alive, same thing with Hellblasters. You can use anything from the Primaris repertoire and not be cheesy. Trust me, they are far from being a viable stand-alone army. Until further models come out, I recommend Scouts and Vehicles that aren't Primaris. They help a lot.

 

As for dedicated anti-horde, do you worry. The Repulsor, Intercessors and should CA drop the points on the Gravis variants, the Inceptors and Aggressors offer more than enough. You can easily gear up on anti-tank and still have enough left to punish hordes. I like to keep my Repulsor cheap, so I run the 283pts version, the cheapest you can get. This alone is capable of deleting entire units of infantry. Besides, Primaris are fairly resistant to hordes and neither UM infantry, nor the Repulsor can be tied down. It is the multi-damage weapons you should be concerned about and those aren't usually found on hordes ;)

[Rogue]

I wouldn’t say that basing your list on your opponent is necessarily a bad thing. I mean, it depends on how things work where you are, but my small group tend to build lists for each game we play, and bring different lists depending on the opposition. But then, when we’re both doing it and expecting it of the other player, that’s just part of the tactical battle.

Within that, if someone has a particular list they want to run as an all-comers, then good for them. But that’s their choice, not an expectation.

And it means that I get to try out lots of different units rather than sticking to a single 1500 points of models.

[The Wolfguard]

Have you considered Agressors for anti horde with the bolters they can put out plenty of shots and can be dropped in where you need them most.

 

I have three aggressors with the bolter load out for use against orks. First game they deleted a mob before being getting the crap beaten out of them. It's amazing what kind of firepower they can put out for sure. How are you dropping them in, with a repulsor or?

 

I would reserve Bobby G for games you know to be cutthroat. However, while the Repulsor may seem powerful, it is not easy to play or keep alive, same thing with Hellblasters. You can use anything from the Primaris repertoire and not be cheesy. Trust me, they are far from being a viable stand-alone army. Until further models come out, I recommend Scouts and Vehicles that aren't Primaris. They help a lot.

 

 

 

As for dedicated anti-horde, do you worry. The Repulsor, Intercessors and should CA drop the points on the Gravis variants, the Inceptors and Aggressors offer more than enough. You can easily gear up on anti-tank and still have enough left to punish hordes. I like to keep my Repulsor cheap, so I run the 283pts version, the cheapest you can get. This alone is capable of deleting entire units of infantry. Besides, Primaris are fairly resistant to hordes and neither UM infantry, nor the Repulsor can be tied down. It is the multi-damage weapons you should be concerned about and those aren't usually found on hordes

 

 

Yeah, I didn't really want to use Roboute Guilliman unless I'm really struggling. So far I feel like I've just made a bit of a few bad decisions in terms of list building and need a fair few more options in my arsenal. More Hellblasters for sure. Repulsors I can imagine are hard to use for sure, a lot of points in one box, I'd love to get two to have one anti-infantry and one anti-tank but, that's a long way down the line. I was thinking of picking up some scouts in small squads, what kind of loadouts do you run? I wasn't really sure what purpose they'd have in the army.

 

I wouldn’t say that basing your list on your opponent is necessarily a bad thing. I mean, it depends on how things work where you are, but my small group tend to build lists for each game we play, and bring different lists depending on the opposition. But then, when we’re both doing it and expecting it of the other player, that’s just part of the tactical battle.

Within that, if someone has a particular list they want to run as an all-comers, then good for them. But that’s their choice, not an expectation.

And it means that I get to try out lots of different units rather than sticking to a single 1500 points of models.

 

Well where I am I literally only have two opponents in my group really right now, that I play against consistently anyway. One is an Ork/Admech player as said above and the other is another UM player (though he doesn't run any characters or anything and might be changing chapter soon).  I know the mech player will always run all dunecrawlers and when he's orks it's almost all infantry. The more I think about it the more I think it's silly that I should be expecting myself to run an allcomer type list when I'm vsing armies that are always polarised one way or the other, it's meant to be a tactical/competitive game at the end of the day.

 

Honestly I think I need to become more active here in trying to expand my knowledge in 8th and moving forwards on how to expand my list. I really don't want to buy units that aren't going to be of decent use in my games.

[Rogue]

How do you feel about proxies? I have enough infantry to do pretty much whatever I want, but far fewer tanks; what I do have is a bunch of old rhinos in different colours from earlier armies, and they have often appeared in different roles to test the water. If something works, I buy it. If not, I can try something else (via rhino proxy) next time.

 

I find that I set myself limits - only so many proxy units in a single list (and as they’re usually bright pink rhinos in an otherwise green and black army, they’re pretty obvious). A whole army of proxies is a different thing, and much less fun to play against.

 

(Then again, back in the early days of Warhammer Fantasy, I’d play with entire armies that consisted of cardboard rectangles with squares drawn on to represent regiments...)

[Brother Captain Ed]

In Warmachine we called the concept a "skew list". Basically it's a high-risk/high-reward strategy in which a list askes your opponent a question (can you deal with so much armor, infantry, magic, area denial, etc.?) If that question cannot be answered, you win. But, on the other hand, you've sacrificed so many options to achieve the skew that if they can answer the question, you almost certainly lose.

 

8th Ed is vulnerable to skew lists for a few reasons, not least of which is the importance of the alpha strike (making such a skew very effective). Smite Spam is an example of a skew list that is popular for obvious reasons.

 

Warmachine's two list format helped defend you against a bad skew matchup, but it also encouraged including a skew list since you weren't locked into it unless you chose to be. Two lists would be a bit much for 40k, but I think a 500 point sideboard to shuffle in and out would be a positive addition to the game.

[Daigo Cannon]

Whirlwinds are a great option in this type of list, you can decide the type of missiles according to the type of opponent and hiding them out of side prevent them t be taken down, Scorpious is a good choice too, fielding a lieutenant next to it will provide a screen against DS and help those S6 shoots to go thru.

Try adding 2 or 3 extra marines to your devastators, this provide let them take some wound before reducing the effectiveness of them.

[The Wolfguard]

How do you feel about proxies? I have enough infantry to do pretty much whatever I want, but far fewer tanks; what I do have is a bunch of old rhinos in different colours from earlier armies, and they have often appeared in different roles to test the water. If something works, I buy it. If not, I can try something else (via rhino proxy) next time.

 

I find that I set myself limits - only so many proxy units in a single list (and as they’re usually bright pink rhinos in an otherwise green and black army, they’re pretty obvious). A whole army of proxies is a different thing, and much less fun to play against.

 

(Then again, back in the early days of Warhammer Fantasy, I’d play with entire armies that consisted of cardboard rectangles with squares drawn on to represent regiments...)

 

I'm not too sure about proxies yet. I think I'll have a discussion with a mate and put it frankly that I'm unsure in which direction to advance my army however in the last day or two I've come to the conclusion that I want to pick up some minimum sized scout teams (with ML) and some hellblasters/Guilliman. As such I should be OK without proxies for quite a bit, I have a lot of tanks and stuff left over from my Iron Hands army, it's just infantry I'm lacking.

 

In Warmachine we called the concept a "skew list". Basically it's a high-risk/high-reward strategy in which a list askes your opponent a question (can you deal with so much armor, infantry, magic, area denial, etc.?) If that question cannot be answered, you win. But, on the other hand, you've sacrificed so many options to achieve the skew that if they can answer the question, you almost certainly lose.

 

8th Ed is vulnerable to skew lists for a few reasons, not least of which is the importance of the alpha strike (making such a skew very effective). Smite Spam is an example of a skew list that is popular for obvious reasons.

 

Warmachine's two list format helped defend you against a bad skew matchup, but it also encouraged including a skew list since you weren't locked into it unless you chose to be. Two lists would be a bit much for 40k, but I think a 500 point sideboard to shuffle in and out would be a positive addition to the game.

That's pretty interesting, I was looking at starting Warmachine a while back but none of the models really gripped me like in 40k. These skew lists are becoming an issue for me for sure but I guess I always know which opponent will bring what so I can work to fix that skew list. However like you said, if he runs 5 dunecrawlers and a hq in 1000 points and I run an army of lascannons/ML then it's never going to seem like a balanced game, it'll always be really one sided and less tactical if that makes sense? The idea of winning or losing in the list making section of the game kinda sucks.

 

Whirlwinds are a great option in this type of list, you can decide the type of missiles according to the type of opponent and hiding them out of side prevent them t be taken down, Scorpious is a good choice too, fielding a lieutenant next to it will provide a screen against DS and help those S6 shoots to go thru.

Try adding 2 or 3 extra marines to your devastators, this provide let them take some wound before reducing the effectiveness of them.

 

I should have added more marines to my devastators and to be honest have no clue why I didn't. I actually have a whirlwind scorpius however I haven't got the forgeworld index so I haven't seen the up to date rules for it yet. I need to look into more variance in my army to be honest, right now I'm running mostly infantry forces and I think it's because I've just moved away from my HH Iron Hands who were all tanks so I've gone from one extreme to the other.

 

 

List wise I'm looking to update my army, all my intercessors have the assault bolters modelled onto them, I'm thinking of picking up 10 more Hellblasters (giving me 15) and having 10 with the assault plasma and 5 with regular ones. Picking up Guilliman I like the idea of turning it into a more mobile force, especially since each squad of 5 intercessors has a power sword and I have 10 termies I want to make good use of etc. Tank wise I actually have quite a lot I could add to the army, I have a butt load of dreads, ironclads, contemptors, whirlwinds, land raiders, however none seems to be loaded out with anti-tank. I have the forgeworld plasma pred too but again, I've not seen the FW index so don't know the rules for them yet :( 

[Rogue]

But imagine that he brings five crawlers to face your lascannon army. You blatter him (probably, or he pulls off a dramatic win - you never know). Next game, he knows that he can’t just bring crawlers, and has to try something else. Can he find a way to beat your shooty army? If not, he tries again next time. If he does, then the ball is in your court...

 

Of course, if you won, you might change your force up anyway. He can’t just list build against your last army, but has to consider it. Just as you know that you can’t be complacent - you outgunned him this time, but it may not work again quite so easily.

 

Then again, I like that part of the game. One of my group plays Necrons - it took me three games to find an army that could match his, but when I did (and all but tabled him by the last turn) it felt like a real achievement.

[The Wolfguard]

That's very true for sure, it's just a shame as it means I suddenly have to buy a whole new load of models and I already have a good amount of unfinished stuff, but that's my fault nobody elses. 

 

I think to be honest I'm going to mix things up quite a bit, I have 20 unused terminators it's about time I dusted off.

[Ishagu]

As soon as I read the original post it's clear that you fought someone who is abusing something in the game. His whole army was high toughness, high strength with lots of firepower. Certainly not a casual list at 1k as it's highly efficient spam. You on the other hand were running infantry with light weapons.

 

This is a classic case of having to discuss games with your opponent. You could have run a chapter master and Lieutenant surrounded by dozens of lascannons and beaten him on turn 1, reducing the game to a "who shoots first wins" match up.

 

To put it bluntly, why are people walking into this kind of game outside of a tournament environment? Casual gaming MUST be fun for both, this IS in the rules. Be upfront about your lists, don't just spam to each other's weaknesses.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, better a game like that instead of having noone to play with, I guess.

[Ishagu]

I don't think so at all. Unless those are literally the only models that guy owned, I'd be walking away if the match up was THAT bad.

You're not there to stroke someone's ego.

[The Pounder]

Sorry to butt in Wolfguard but I have a similar problem, I’ve just started playing again with my Primaris Ultramarines.

I usually play VERY casually with a group of like minded players, what I mean is we all play to win but not at the expense of fun.

Like Ishagu says (and I’m sure most people would agree) we’re all here to have a great laugh and roll some dice.

Now my dilemma, I’m playing with a mate I haven’t seen in a while and I want to field a semi-competitive list without being slated for cheese. I have Guilliman ready and painted but I’d like to keep him for larger games.

We will be playing at around 75ish PL.

My list is as follows:

Primaris Captain (power sword and auto bolt rifle)

3x5 Intercessors (all with standard boltrifles)

2x5 Hellblasters (Plasma incinerators)

2x Redemptor Dreadnoughts (both with macro plasma incinerators and onslaught gatling cannons)

and 2x3 Inceptors. (3 assault bolters and 3 Plasma exterminators)

I don’t know what I’ll be facing (either Scars, Wolves, Orks or Death Guard) and these are models I like the look of.

So do you think this list could be fun for us?

[The Wolfguard]

As soon as I read the original post it's clear that you fought someone who is abusing something in the game. His whole army was high toughness, high strength with lots of firepower. Certainly not a casual list at 1k as it's highly efficient spam. You on the other hand were running infantry with light weapons.

 

This is a classic case of having to discuss games with your opponent. You could have run a chapter master and Lieutenant surrounded by dozens of lascannons and beaten him on turn 1, reducing the game to a "who shoots first wins" match up.

 

To put it bluntly, why are people walking into this kind of game outside of a tournament environment? Casual gaming MUST be fun for both, this IS in the rules. Be upfront about your lists, don't just spam to each other's weaknesses.

 

Yeah, definitely should have discussed it with him, he loves his dunecrawlers and does have other models in fairness. He doesn't really see them as onesided and I'm worried that me saying anything now makes it look like I'm just complaining, maybe I will just link him this thread in fairness.. He didn't do it to be competitive he just has always loved dunecrawlers. It's partly my fault for thinking that 5 lascannons was a good amount (I'm used to last edition I guess?) but at the same time didn't expect that many crawlers.

 

Well, better a game like that instead of having noone to play with, I guess.

 

True, it's always fun to play for me. As soon as the lascannons got instantly blasted I knew it was over though.

 

I don't think so at all. Unless those are literally the only models that guy owned, I'd be walking away if the match up was THAT bad.

You're not there to stroke someone's ego.

 

True...

 

Sorry to butt in Wolfguard but I have a similar problem, I’ve just started playing again with my Primaris Ultramarines.

I usually play VERY casually with a group of like minded players, what I mean is we all play to win but not at the expense of fun.

Like Ishagu says (and I’m sure most people would agree) we’re all here to have a great laugh and roll some dice.

Now my dilemma, I’m playing with a mate I haven’t seen in a while and I want to field a semi-competitive list without being slated for cheese. I have Guilliman ready and painted but I’d like to keep him for larger games.

We will be playing at around 75ish PL.

My list is as follows:

Primaris Captain (power sword and auto bolt rifle)

3x5 Intercessors (all with standard boltrifles)

2x5 Hellblasters (Plasma incinerators)

2x Redemptor Dreadnoughts (both with macro plasma incinerators and onslaught gatling cannons)

and 2x3 Inceptors. (3 assault bolters and 3 Plasma exterminators)

I don’t know what I’ll be facing (either Scars, Wolves, Orks or Death Guard) and these are models I like the look of.

So do you think this list could be fun for us?

 

I'm not the best person to mention how viable a list is... However that list isn't cheesy for sure, I know people have very mixed reviews about redemptors and especially inceptors so I really wouldn't worry about being called cheesy. Otherwise I'd personally say the list looks fun..