Heavy Weapons on Mobile Infantry

[TheShredder]

Is there any good reason to put Heavy Weapons on Infantry Squads that are likely to be relatively mobile and/or in transports?

 

I ask because I came across this Steel Legion list and noticed that the Infantry Squads (which would be in Chimeras) all had Heavy Bolters:

 

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/11/03/astra-militarum-regiment-tactics-list-armageddon/

 

Is there a good reason to do this?

[Harrowmaster]

Personally I wouldn't bother, if a squad is going to be moving a lot the heavy weapons aren't worth it because of the -1 to hit

[Guardsman Bob]

The last owner may not have any other options.

 

Back in 5th I used to use Heavy Bolters. It was more a forced restriction due to limiting numbers of foot soldiers in the collection. Getting a few (dozens) metals every year from eBay has solved that.

 

Nothing sort of major rule changes that made lasguns bad enough to push spending 8 more points for a heavy bolters would move me. At that point I’d be trying to minimizes squads like back in the day when it was possible with veterans in transports. Which would relegate the heavy weapon purchase to an opportunity cost that didn’t prevent more useful purchases elsewhere.

[Major_Gilbear]

The Guard are quite fortunate in that they can have pretty specialised squads; when you consider Orders (and which ones each squad will be getting), it seems more efficient to minimise weapon variation within squads.

 

That said, heavy bolters are cheap enough to add a bit of heavier fire should the squad need to sit still for a turn or two, even if much of time it won't be fired/effective. Missile launchers are the other reasonably popular option for reasons of flexibility.

 

Another consideration of what weapons to give an infantry squad in Chimera, is what weapons they can fire out of the Chimera.

 

I'm planning on keep heavy weapons to HWT, and I'll likely be doing the same with special weapons too. This means most of my infantry squads will be a Sergeant and nine lasgun troopers. However, I do want to try various options with different Doctrines too, so I may well revise my thoughts after a few games! :P

[CoffeeGrunt]

Can't fire out of Chimeras anymore Gilbear. :/

[OnboardG1]

Can't fire out of Chimeras anymore Gilbear. :/

 

But you can fire out of Stormlords :)

[Tallarn Commander]

So far in my games I've given my platoons' infantry squads heavies in 8th. It's not the most efficient but it has allowed me to be flexibility to serve as a base of fire in the early game and to advance (albeit with reduced accuracy) in the late game.

[Major_Gilbear]

Can't fire out of Chimeras anymore Gilbear. :/

 

Good catch - I hadn't noticed that before.

 

I have to admit that I find the way information is presented in the new codex makes it hard for me to find details quickly, and I keep getting caught out by these little things that have changed (often for the first time ever - like this detail) but that I've not spotted - or worse, that I vaguely remember but can't find. :(

 

Ah well, looks like squads all maxxed out towards one weapon will be how I do things now I guess - so rifle squads, SWS and HWS.

 

 

But you can fire out of Stormlords

 

Indeed!

 

Although a superheavy is a bit of an ambitious inclusion to my force at this stage. ;)

[mertbl]

If you are going to be mobile, I'd take the heavy bolter, 3 shots should still hit 1 in the move.

[TheShredder]

If you are going to be mobile, I'd take the heavy bolter, 3 shots should still hit 1 in the move.

 

But do you think it's worth it over not taking a heavy weapon at all?

[mertbl]

It's 8 points. Across 6 squads of infantry that's 48 points. That's another 10 men with a special weapon. What's worth more to you?

[Guardsman Bob]

 

Can't fire out of Chimeras anymore Gilbear. :/

 

 

Good catch - I hadn't noticed that before.

 

I have to admit that I find the way information is presented in the new codex makes it hard for me to find details quickly, and I keep getting caught out by these little things that have changed (often for the first time ever - like this detail) but that I've not spotted - or worse, that I vaguely remember but can't find. :(

One of these days during a game with a good buddy I’m going to put heavy weapons squads and try to split them off during the move phase. When he asks what’s going on I’ll pull out the second edition IG Codex and show him. His sense of humor is pretty nutty so it should be good for a chuckle.

[Altasmurf]

I feel it depends on the use of the squad.

 

Objective grabber and holder. Yes. You should reach the objective by turn 1 or 2 and then you want extra fire power to hold it.

 

Objective jumpers. No, always on the move you might as well as save the points and get more guys.

 

Front line skirmisher. No they're just going to die anyways save the points.

 

Backline support. Yes you will get use from it turn one on.

 

And the list goes on, it really depends on how mobile the squad is and what it's job is

[Major_Gilbear]

One of these days during a game with a good buddy I’m going to put heavy weapons squads and try to split them off during the move phase. When he asks what’s going on I’ll pull out the second edition IG Codex and show him. His sense of humor is pretty nutty so it should be good for a chuckle.

 

Hey, I have played since 2E you know! :D

 

I also saw that the Chimera lost amphibious too... I am seeing more clearly now why people don't regard Chimeras highly in 8E.

 

 

It's 8 points. Across 6 squads of infantry that's 48 points. That's another 10 men with a special weapon. What's worth more to you?

 

Personally, I would rather take a ML for clutch-shots, as at least then you have a better chance of achieving something you might otherwise not be able to.

 

However, if you want your orders (and Doctrines) to be as efficient as possible, it makes sense to keep a very close eye on what weapons you give a squad. Since IG squads can be pretty specialised, I think it makes more sense to do just that and leave the heavy weapons to the HWS.

 

As an exception to my point above, they might be more worthwhile in command squads that are designed for support. The higher BS along with the squad moving about a bit less makes them worth considering.

 

Finally, a different philosophy is to just sprinkle weapons into squads on a Rule of Cool basis (or a "these are already painted" basis), and damn efficiency. As long as you don't go overboard with expensive upgrades, they should still give you lots of opportunities throughout your games to pull their cost back.

[NatBrannigan]

Whenever I put a Heavy weapon in a Command Squad it get's blown away in short order... It just makes them a juicy target. I've been keeping mine as a Standard, with sometimes a Medic, Vox operator and Grenade Launchers thrown in and they fly under the radar a bit. Add in a BS3+ Las-cannon and it's a different story!

 

In 7th I used to take Autocannons on my infantry squads and put them behind a Aegis wall blasting away all game and holding my deployment zone. In 8th for whatever reason my Infantry are now more mobile so Heavy Weapons seem wasted. You'd think with split fire being a thing now Heavy Weapons in Infantry squads would be even more attractive. Not sure if it's just me though.

[Halfpint100]

Whenever I put a Heavy weapon in a Command Squad it get's blown away in short order... It just makes them a juicy target. I've been keeping mine as a Standard, with sometimes a Medic, Vox operator and Grenade Launchers thrown in and they fly under the radar a bit. Add in a BS3+ Las-cannon and it's a different story!

 

In 7th I used to take Autocannons on my infantry squads and put them behind a Aegis wall blasting away all game and holding my deployment zone. In 8th for whatever reason my Infantry are now more mobile so Heavy Weapons seem wasted. You'd think with split fire being a thing now Heavy Weapons in Infantry squads would be even more attractive. Not sure if it's just me though.

I have 6 lascannons on infantry in 1k points. In 6 squads. The command squad with one usually gets ignored...... Edited November 9, 2017 by Halfpint100

[WarriorFish]

I'd only consider a HWT in an Infantry Squad that was mobile if the intent was one time i.e. it was to move into a position and then stay there. Given the current game etc I think you're better off leaving them off and putting the points to better use elsewhere/on squads made to hold the line.

[Vel'Cona]

It's so cheap to run HWS anyway there's not much reason to "splash" HWT into mobile units.  That being said, it's really a matter of Regimental Doctrine.  I think Mordians/Cadians want HWT since they tend to prefer camping, but for everyone else the special is good enough.  It's worth remembering that Scions can stack 4 specials per 10-man unit and are easily "splashable" into any regiment, so if you really need to concentrate plasma/melta/etc. that would obviously be a better choice.

[NatBrannigan]

6 Lascannons in Infantry squads? I can't imagine doing that myself! How are you successful are you finding that approach? I honestly think my opponents are scared of the deadly deadly flags so would shoot my command squads whatever was in them. Where they've got this idea that the +1LD is so good I have no idea.

 

I just think it's a case of the Lasgun becoming a reliable weapon that means Heavy Weapons aren't as popular. In editions past my squads only damage seemed to come from the Autocannons while everyone else was there as wounds and objective holders. Now Infantry seem to be almost holding their own.

 

HWT's being reasonably priced now are also mean there are "better" places to put them. I say it like that because I don't intend to tell anyone what the "best" loadout is. I'm not sure there is one which is great! Exactly as it should be.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Also things like Mortars being worthwhile is very nice.

[olcottr]

I also use 6 Infantry Squads, each with Lascannon. I like the flexibility of having the cannons spread out across the board.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Do your Infantry never move?

[Halfpint100]

They do. I need the antitank and have enough so 2-3 are always stationary. So I always have some. I also have 3 autocannons, 4 heavy bolter and 6 mortars with my other squads (alllll the bodies) so most tanks are dead T1 or 2. Then the infantry move forward. I use inquisitors as LD bubbles and a banner as back up (5 points for a cool banner that might help)

[CoffeeGrunt]

Wait so you run 19 Infantry Squads?

[Halfpint100]

6 infantry squads: 3 auto, 3 Las. 2 heavy weapon squads of 3 mortars, command squad with lascannon, 2 heavy weapon squads of 1 lascannon and 2 heavy bolters. Sorry if it wasn't clear. I said infantry in the first post, probably should have made it clearer there.