Ultramarine Family Tree

[Captain Idaho]

My issue is there is no real connection to Dantioch bar wearing metal coloured armour.

 

It's like the Blood Ravens being linked to Blood Angels because they have blood in their name.

[Ogun]

Dantioch's mask remained on Sotha (The Aegidian Oath). We don't know about the handful of other Iron Warrior survivors, but Dantioch's personal legacy is found in the Scythes of the Emperor. If you have a close look at the helmet of marine wielding the scythe on the cover of Slaughter at Giants Coffin, it is shaped remarkably similarly to Dantioch's mask. 

[Spinsanity]

I remember from Sarah Caulkwell's 'Gildar Rift' novel that they fused one of their defective aspirants to one of their Strike Cruisers, essentially making him a sentient AI that doubled the efficiency of the ship.

It wasn't a defective aspirant. It was their best aspirant which they decided to use as, like you said, a Cruiser Princeps/AI-like sentience... He was defective only insofar as he did not receive (iirc, been ages) the Black Carapace, but that was because they intended to link him to a ship instead of a Power Armohr...

 

+ Edit / Re-edit : God I hate typing on a cellphone's virtual keyboard...

Edited January 4, 2018 by Spinsanity

[Ogun]

This is a slightly tenuous theory, but I wondered if the legion funerary guards shown in Unremembered Empire, who were responsible for overseeing the repatriation of fallen Ultramarines on Macragge, might have been the origins of the Mortifactors. I got the feeling, like the whole mention of the scythe symbol on Sotha, that Abnett was leaving it as a deliberate Easter egg. 

[SickSix]

 

 

 

Aren't Silver Skulls a Chapter that goes to war based upon readings of the Emperor's Tarot and mystical portents?

 

Apart from iconography, what similarities to Iron Warriors or Dantioch are there? And where did they source the geneseed from?

Yes they do (now). They also are portrayed as headhunters/trophy takers, bit that is a 'recent' trait adopted from their second homeworld.

 

It's been 10000 years, they may be quite different now than when they started.

Didn't they also do a ton of unsanctioned experiments without the approval of the Mechanicus?

 

I remember from Sarah Caulkwell's 'Gildar Rift' novel that they fused one of their defective aspirants to one of their Strike Cruisers, essentially making him a sentient AI that doubled the efficiency of the ship.

Yes they did. That really came out of left field but I liked it.

[Brother Tyler]

Regarding the heritage of the Silver Skulls, I recommend shifting that over to this topic ("The Silver Skulls Conspiracy" started by @SickSix back in 2016). There are other theories in that topic, some of them quite ridiculous (in my opinion). Shifting that subject over to that topic will enable this topic to remain appropriately focused on the full range of Primogenitors.

 

To say that "[The Sons of Orar are] almost certainly the Ultramarines Chapter that were lead by Captain Orar during the Heresy/Scouring" is a bit presumptuous. That's like arguing that any Chapter named for a primarch was created from a core of Legiones Astartes that personally fought beside that primarch during the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy/Scouring (e.g., Hammers of Dorn, Sons of Dorn, Sons of Guilliman). To be certain, it's within the realm of the plausible that the Sons of Orar may be an undocumented Primogenitor. However, since the origins (i.e., founding) of the Sons of Orar are mysterious, it's entirely possible that they are simply a later-founding Chapter that draws upon the legacy of a famous Scouring-era hero of the Ultramarines Legion. I agree that there's nothing (so far) to point to the Sons of Orar being related to the Alpha Legion (I chalk that up to one of numberless extreme/ridiculous theories that grow out of the most tenuous of perceived links, this one due to a symbol).

 

Getting back to the topic at hand (i.e., which Great Crusade/Horus Heresy/Scouring era Ultramarines Chapters became Primogenitors), I found this old topic with the following 1st post:

  

Wanted to see if people thought it was worth it to keep track of which 40K Chapters come from which 30K Chapters. Might be the wrong forum?

 

We know so far:

IV Chapter "Aurorans" -> Aurora Chapter  - Partial to armored formations.

XXII Chapter "Nemesis" -> Nemesis Chapter  - Disproportionate amount of Destroyer units.

?? Chapter "The Desert Lions" -> ???

IX Chapter -> Genesis Chapter/Novamarines?  - Veteran tacticals and (possibly?) void warfare disposition. See picture below.

XXIV & XXV "Evocatii" -> ???

199th Chapter -> Scythes of the Emperor

 

Noticed this on one of the plates in HH5, a Breacher Legionary has the Genesis Chapter badge on his shield.

http://i.imgur.com/AbjlCr8.png

 

 

The badges for Invictarii are essentially the White/Black Consul Chapter badges. This seems like a stretch?

 

Anyone else spotted anything that might provide some clues?

(I was quite pleased to see the Desert Lions listed in that older topic.)

 

Most, if not all, of the discussion in that topic has already been repeated here, but it might bear some examination.

 

It's probably worth listing the (currently known/suspected) Primogenitors of the Ultramarines Legion. The following are currently listed in the Tabula Astartes:

 

http://bolterandchainsword.com/style_images/BCBlack/folder_post_icons/icon2.gifUltramarines Legion ("Primogenitors") http://bolterandchainsword.com/style_images/BCBlack/post_snapback.gif

 

Aurora - GW | No File Found (Primogenitor)

 

Black Consuls - GW | No File Found (rumored destroyed)

 

Doom Eagles - GW | No File Found

 

Genesis - GW | No File Found

 

Inceptors - GW | No File Found

 

Iron Snakes - GW | No File Found

 

Libators - GW | No File Found

 

Mortifactors - GW | No File Found

 

Nemesis - GW | No File Found

 

Novamarines - GW] | No File Found

 

Obsidian Glaives - GW | No File Found (destroyed in the Red Waaagh! 998.M41)

 

Patriarchs of Ulixis - GW | No File Found

 

Praetors of Orpheus - GW | No File Found

 

Silver Eagles - GW | No File Found

 

Silver Skulls - GW | No File Found

 

Ultramarines [Chapter] - GW | No File Found

 

White Consuls - GW | No File Found (Astartes Praeses)

 

That listing is obviously fan-compiled (by me), so it's not guaranteed to be 100% accurate (I just added the Iron Snakes this morning, for example). It's helpful, though, in that it gives us some names, some of which have already been definitively tied to Ultramarines Legion organizations.

 

However, this [Tabula Astartes] listing points to some discrepancies in the first post:

• The Eagle Lords, while known to be a Successor of the Ultramarines Legion, are not known to be among the Primogenitors. So whether or not they are descended from the Ultramarines Legion 20th Chapter is purely speculative. However, there are two known Primogenitors that include the "eagle" name in their title and who may be descended from the 20th Chapter (Doom Eagles and Silver Eagles). I'm not sure if the relation of the Doom Eagles to the 8th Chapter in the first post has a canon reference or not.
• The Hawk Lords may or may not be an Ultramarines Legion Successor (some canon sources indicate that they are while others tie them to the Raven Guard Legion), but they are not known to be a 2nd Founding Chapter (which doesn't mean that they aren't, merely that they aren't described as such anywhere). So tying them to the Ultramarines Legion 21st Chapter is speculative.
• The origins of the Silver Skulls (a known Primogenitor) and the Sons of Orar (not known to be a Primogenitor) have already been discussed, but relating them to traitor legions is clearly speculative in nature. I know that there is an asterisk note indicating that these might be theories, but it would be better to make that the header.

Something else to consider is the fact that the size of a Great Crusade/Horus Heresy era Ultramarines Legion "Chapter" was much larger than a 2nd Founding "Chapter", with the "company" being more comparable in terms of size. Multiple Primogenitors may have been descended from the same "Chapter" (e.g., perhaps all of the ~Consuls Chapters were separate companies within the same Chapter).

[Ogun]

I think the correlation between the Hawk Lord's Codex descriptions and the that of the 'Hawks' given in Tempest is fairly solid. Tempest came out after the 7th ed Marine, codex when they were explicitly made UM successors. The Kastorel Novem material is probably best thought of as representing that the Hawk Lords or the Inquisition might no longer be entirely certain about their origins. 

Of course the Hawk Lords might actually be a successor founded from a now lost Second Founding who adopted the same traits as their founder?

[DogWelder]

Also the Silver Skull's knack for illegal experiments is also an indication of Iron Warrior heritage.