Chapter Approved - Deathwatch Changes

[robofish7591]

I know it probably isn't going to happen.... but I would love to get special ammo on storm bolters and maybe even vehicles.  Could you imagine a land raider crusader with special ammo?  That would be pretty sweet.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think that the scope of the changes is going to be limited to what we've seen so far. Hopefully vets get a nice a point drop, and at the very least the watchmaster gets a boost (I love that model so anytime it gets better I'm happy). I'm actually more excited to see what the new marine books are like than chapter approved now just to see how they handle the non-codex chapters.

 

One thing that I would like for the codex would be a stratagem that allows us to target a deathwatch unit with a stratagem from a different marine book. So for example pay a cp or two, and use the true grit stratagem that wolves got. Think it would be a cool way to show the mark that other chapters leave on the deathwatch.

[Polak]

I doubt we'll see any changes to existing profiles, except for points. We'll get psychic powers, warlord traits and strategems. The full fleshing out will happen when we get the codex. Remember this is more of a balancing book and a stop gap help for all the armies without a codex so far. 

 

As for SIA don't expect any changes to weapon options to those either, like stormbolters or hurricane bolters. But maybe our primaris bolters will get them, in order to push more Primaris sales on DW players? I'd be okay with SIA for all the primaris bolter variants!

[robofish7591]

I know that stuff like that won't be in CA, that was more wish listing for the codex.  Still, it is nice to be getting something.

[Boyadventurer]

I'm split on Primaris getting SIA. It'd only really be on intercessors and reivers I suppose. I think the vets would DEFINITELY need a point drop in that case though. They're already the same price as Intercessors, all they have over Primaris if you want bolter dudes is the SIA and option for melee weapons. Otherwise, just run vet frag squads and use the intercessors for bolter buddies. Similar thing with Hellblasters and vets with plasma.

 

Reivers would be very fun with SIA though.

 

On the plus side, the community article talking about point adjustments does show a G/Morkanaut, Cawl, Celestine, so it looks like they'll cover both codex and index armies, as opposed to just the SM and DG we saw in the rumour before.

 

There's a part of me that wants Primaris to get the whole equipment list though. They do look dope with the bolter/power sword from the kill team kit.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I don't think Primaris should get the same type of SIA as vets. They have so many bolter types available to them that I think it would overshine the regular vets way too much. 

 

Granted I'm the guy who got super excited for deathwatch bought a bunch of them, and then watched them get a lot worse in a year. GW needs to give vets some love, making them feel obsolete so fast has been pretty brutal. 

[Polak]

I can imagine seeing price drops for veterans, maybe....I hope. Or maybe not so much on the body but the DW special weapons instead? That way DW veterans will have the roll of the special weapon teams, rather than guys with only boltguns. And seeing how Intercessors have no access to special weapons and just their bolter weapons, with SIA these guys would be more specialised than vanilla Intercessors and more in theme with DW, rather than just different coloured primaris. And in the end, we will still want our Veterans for their frag cannons, missile launchers and combi weapons.

[shortysl]

The Dark Eldar relic is basically the Stinger Pistol from their 7th edition Codex, a weapon that is not in the Index for them, so it's not totally unrealistic to think this might be legit. That said, I am applying salt.

[Moostick]

Sorry guys, GW once again does not care for us and, in a sense, nerfed us again when we are already in a bad (i.e., the worst) position.

 

From initial leaks, no changes to any of our unique weapons or points changes to Veterans. SM changes reflect on us now. SS is the only change not previously leaked that is positive to us. Razorback, Corvus weaponry all going up.

 

Thanks GW for reminding us how much you hate us.

 

Edit: Done a thorough look over. It's even worse. I realized they essentially did not even bother looking over our costs. Nothing with DW was touched; only brought in line with SM changes. We are not even worth a review.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Moostick

[Boyadventurer]

Plain old vets are officially now more expensive than Primaris...

 

Edit: No Daemons on there along with BA and DA. *MAYBE* DW will get a codex next, so they skipped everything DW specific? Ugh, I know I'm wrong, but I gotta keep trying to convince myself I'll have a chance with them some day.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Boyadventurer

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

I can't imagine it'll be much longer after demons for our book. Glad to finally have 12pt power fists and 5 pt storm shields.

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

They did copy paste the wrong entry though, we don't have a librarian with jump pack and the Terminator Librarian isn't reduced. We also got a Boltstorm gauntlet and no longer to put it on.

[Boyadventurer]

Haha of course they did. How about not even worth a copy edit eh Moo?

[Moostick]

At least we have each other.

 

I guess the Librarian w/ Jump Pack was actually meant to be Terminator Librarian? That would make sense, and I didn't care for the JP Librarian to begin with.

 

GW made some really strange knee-jerk reactions. For something that affects us, I just can't get around the new Sicarian points. The Venators are such a steal now that they have made Las Preds/Razorbacks, well,...much less attractive. I really...really don't want more than half my army to just be FW models. Please do something in our codex.

 

I'm hanging on hope that it'll be February. Since they'll probably go Imperium -> Chaos > Xenos, it'll likely be a Xenos release in Feb, and we may get paired with one since we are supposed to be good at hunting Xenos.

[Deepstrike_Nick]

Well, guess I'll be shelving this army untill they get a proper codex.

The points update had literally nothing deathwatch specific. They could have just said: Deathwatch points => see space marines points.

A squandered opportunity to make several armies sort of competitive. Still miffed they completely snubbed talons of the emperor...

[mjrwaud]

Well... that's a bummer.

 

Although I'm happy to hear the storm shield price has gone down, the rest is a big "bleh". I really went all in with my non-primaris Deathwatch (DW) force so it's kind of a downer to feel like they're brushed off. I get the feeling they (GW) doesn't test the DW rules enough so the only way we're likely to see any change is by giving them our feedback. With that in mind, make some noise and ask questions on their Facebook page, firmly but politely of course.

 

Fingers crossed for some (eventual) positive changes.

[Irbis]

I can't imagine it'll be much longer after demons for our book. Glad to finally have 12pt power fists and 5 pt storm shields.

 

Man, I expected nothing but the above yet GW managed to outdo itself once again

 

It really starts to look GW are the new orks/TS, army with no proponents in the studio but several writers upset at them because they dared to touch their pet faction and so more than willing to give them a nerf. Kelly is still upset Artemis dared to win that little campaign, eh?

 

And the saddest part is, people buying Primaris for DW instead of Vets to plug that gaping hole give GW salest team wrong idea, something like 'no one plays DW' and 'Primaris are good/popular so don't need a boost'...

[SinnerBeta]

So, anybody else saw the page with Warlord trait, relic and stratagems ? All of it is meh to me beside the Beacon.

[Prot]

I have to find the special rules stuff but I’m having trouble being positive. I kept telling friends in playgroups that the DW were going to be more regular once CA hit the shelves, but I think it’s actually worse because the best units were the ones they jacked because a guy won a tournament. It’s too bad they didn’t go the route of making other things relevant instead of hiking popular items

 

At this point the rules would have to be amazing.

[SinnerBeta]

@Prot

I won't repost the photos but here's a summary:

Warlord trait: reroll wound rolls against Monsters and Vehicles keywords

Relic: once per game at the end of your movement phase take an unit (infantry or biker) from the table or reserves and place them within 6" of the relic bearer and 9" away from the enemy

Stratagem #1: rolls of 6+ in combat generate additional attacks when fighting models without Chaos or Imperium keywords

Stratagem #2: if a vehicle is within 1" of the watch master roll d6 and on a 2+ he suffers d3 mortal wounds

 

So mostly as rumored. I hate the first stratagem, rules that can be used against only some armies are lazy and bad design.

Edited November 25, 2017 by SinnerBeta

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Ouch I play a lot of armies and this one was the one I had the highest hopes for and it got nothing. For the most part I like the emphasis on re-balancing existing codex because they're basically set in stone rule wise for eighth but deathwatch imo are the worst fraction. Its frustrating because this army is way to new to be ignored this hard.  

[Prot]

I played a lot of my Deathwatch in seventh edition and it took a very short time for us to figure out the holes in the codex and how many of the rules just didn’t make sense or were too awkward.

 

Within weeks of release I saw blobs of players go from “Frag cannons are OP” to “in selling my Deathwatch off”.

 

I’ll never forget on eBay when Overkill came out, you’d pay a fortune for the Deathwatch half of the box and the Genestealer Cult was severely discounted. After the two codexes were released this literally flipped the market, and you could hardly give away the Deathwatch half.

 

But with 7 th wrapping up, we assumed this was deplorable rules writing, with the intent that 8 th was around the corner.

 

But here we are and I think I’m realizing that there’s no studio champion for these guys, and there’s no new models to sell so Primaris and Deathguard all get unit reductions.

 

It’s really hard to be positive, I’ve stuck these guys out since day one, painted thousands of points...I’ve had friends ask me to put them away for now... so I think I’m reluctantly going to have to now. If I don’t it’s just going to make me bitter about the army. I will pack them up now until codex leaks and give them a brief look then.

 

I will say one thing... even back when they pooched them in seventh, I asked the community to politely state your displeasure at the Facebook page. I did so many times myself. Otherwise they won’t even notice.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

The thing is with how expensive plastic molds have been described as being there still should be reason to sell the models.

 

I'm hoping it has more to do with either testing different chapter tactics and weapon profiles that may provide big buffs, or a design similar to craftworld elder where a lot of the power from the codex is a result of the stratagems. I'd actually prefer the stratagem route and with deathwatch vets adding in keywords you could have mixed units gain access to a ton benefits (I still think the mixed units is a big part of why GW has such a rough time balancing these guys).   

 

In ways it may be better that they do stink because it'll send a message. I can't be the only one who remembers how tough it was to get some of the kits at release or how fast they sold out of the hard cover book (I can remember being proud to have one). So maybe someone from marketing points out an army with good release fell off a cliff.

[Prot]

I agree Black star... I have a limited ed Codex and am proud of it, but it was never a rules based popularity. Most of the people who are still here bought in because of the background, and the models were fantastic.

 

This army on the table top never had its moment in the sun. They baked out sales, then repackaged it in the cheap Black Spear formation box ( which I stupidly bought) and the beef of the ( limited) model line is in the Start Collecting box. There is no incentive from a financial gain point of view to make this army more appealing than stuff that Did not sell strong! Or new stuff.... DG and Primaris, which possibly see the largest gain from CA.

 

What I’m saying here is I think the opposite of what you are saying is true. DW sold so well with release, I think every Imperium player has a box or two of DW sitting in the bottom of a closet.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

way to kill the last of my optimism.