Lucumon's Red Raptors

[Lucumon]

Over in a thread on the new Issodon rules there was a request to post the list I used for a 24 person RTT a week ago and somehow went 3-0. Instead of posting it there, I thought I would create a separate thread to discuss how it could be better for future potential.

Here's the... Red Raptor list I ran:

Battalion:

LI himself

Lieutenant with Jump pack, plasma pistol, power fist

3x 5 man scout squads with camo cloaks - one has sniper rifles, another with bolters and a heavy bolter, and the last with bolters and a missile launcher

3x 10 man devastator squads - one with 4x grav cannons, one with 3x plasma cannons and a missile launcher, and one with 3xlascannons and a missile launcher

Air wing:

4x Stormtalons with heavy bolters

Auxiliary Support (-1 CP!):

Culexus assassin

The idea behind this list is pretty simple: put the Devs and HQ in reserve, deploy the scouts around the storm talons or on objectives. On the first turn, zoom the storm talons forward and drop a re-rolling ball of firepower. The location should enable Lias to neuter the opponent and set the agenda for the rest of the battle.

So, the question now is: How do I make the list better? What is a weakness I need to watch out for?

For example, if chapter approved drops the prices of Inceptors per the rumors, maybe drop a couple storm talons for a squad? What about dropping a storm talon to pick up a couple more assassins to maximize Raptor backfield farkery?

I can post battle reports against the IG, Alpha Legion, and Ynarri/Alaitoc opponents if it helps.

[MajorNese]

So, the question now is:  How do I make the list better?  What is a weakness I need to watch out for?

 

For example, if chapter approved drops the prices of Inceptors per the rumors, maybe drop a couple storm talons for a squad?  What about dropping a storm talon to pick up a couple more assassins to maximize Raptor backfield farkery?

Interesting list, just two things that jump to mind right now: I've used bolt carbine reivers in the past to good effect. Intercessors are dropped to their points level, and are Troops/ObSec too. With twice the wounds of scouts (and with camo cloak/sniper they are the same points level), they might be a bit more resilient. Also, if the surroundings allow FW, why not take a few Tarantulas? The twin heavy bolter variant costs only 27ppm, drops a reasonable amount of firepower on longer range, and can still hold an objective. Also, more drops if you want to drag out the deployment of the interesting stuff, or add a HQ per 3 tarantulas/tarantula squads to get another CP and more deployment slots.

[Race Bannon]

Initial thought: Stormtalons with HB = welcome to the bullet farming team :tu:

[jpwyrm]

First of, pretty cool army you got there Lucumon!

 

I like the relative simplicity of your unit choices - infantry alongside flyer support. With Issodon, everything that is not a flyer has an alternative way of deploying on the field and I think that's one of the main strenght of Raptors lists.

 

Have you thought about including a Stormhawk or two in the Airwing instead of all Talons? I know they don't get Strafing Run, but with Lias dropping anywhere you need him, it should help mitigate this, not mention they're cheaper, tougher and get an extra gun.

 

Is the Culexus worth a CP lost? I don't play against psykers very often, so I might lacks some proper intel regarding this aspect of the game, but it seems like CP can really be handy so I wonder if it is worth it to loose one for only one model...

 

I like the Devastator loadout, it's aggressive and flexible. Do you split them into combat squads or are they at 10 man for durability? If for durability, maybe you could scrounge some points by reducing them to 7-8 man squads and get something else. You don't have any mobile scoring units, some scout bikers could be usefull in objective games.

 

Battle Report are always welcome, even more so since you got wins against some very tough contenders.

[rudeboy134]

Is there a special reason you went with red as the colour? Interesting choice to say the least

[Lucumon]

Is there a special reason you went with red as the colour? Interesting choice to say the least

Because they are Blood Angels =P. I've been playing "Red Marines" for a couple years now with the occasional urge to break out a golden shower of Sanguinary Guard... and it turns out Raptors has the rules that allows for maximum sneakery with a focus on firepower rather than assault.

Interesting list, just two things that jump to mind right now: I've used bolt carbine reivers in the past to good effect. Intercessors are dropped to their points level, and are Troops/ObSec too. With twice the wounds of scouts (and with camo cloak/sniper they are the same points level), they might be a bit more resilient. Also, if the surroundings allow FW, why not take a few Tarantulas? The twin heavy bolter variant costs only 27ppm, drops a reasonable amount of firepower on longer range, and can still hold an objective. Also, more drops if you want to drag out the deployment of the interesting stuff, or add a HQ per 3 tarantulas/tarantula squads to get another CP and more deployment slots.

I'll have to kick around the idea of the Reivers. The Scouts are there for two reasons:

1. Alternate deployment - I can jump scouts on or near objectives

2. Strategems. Hellfire Shells and Flakk Missile allows me to wound big nasties (like Morty or Magnus) with mortal wounds that circumvent a lot of their defenses.

Re: the tarantula idea... I like it. I am building a small Elysian force that will help in this regard...

First of, pretty cool army you got there Lucumon!

I like the relative simplicity of your unit choices - infantry alongside flyer support. With Issodon, everything that is not a flyer has an alternative way of deploying on the field and I think that's one of the main strenght of Raptors lists.

Thanks! Also, great thoughts and questions... let me break them down. I should call out that the mission set that's been played at the tournaments is ITC Champion missions... so objective taking is part of the story,. (see ruleset here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/edit).

For those that aren't with it on these, they are NOVA style where you get points for your primary mission of killing stuff and taking objectives; and secondary missions that you get to choose. So, some of the changes I am making to this list is to force people into choosing 3 secondary missions because they cannot score secondary points otherwise.

The counter to that is that even though I won all 3 of my games, I placed 3rd because my points scored per round were lower than the other 2 undefeated people due to

Have you thought about including a Stormhawk or two in the Airwing instead of all Talons? I know they don't get Strafing Run, but with Lias dropping anywhere you need him, it should help mitigate this, not mention they're cheaper, tougher and get an extra gun.

That is a capital idea! I may just do that... I've magnetized the wings of the Stormtalons so I should be able to do this easily. From a points efficiency perspective they are better at bigger targets and flyers... so, I will play test this.

Plus, as Race Bannon mentioned.... I like bullet farming. More shots = better.

Is the Culexus worth a CP lost? I don't play against psykers very often, so I might lacks some proper intel regarding this aspect of the game, but it seems like CP can really be handy so I wonder if it is worth it to loose one for only one model...

That's a great question, and one I am kicking around. I've had some situations where, even without psykers, the Culexus is great. For example, in my second match against Alpha Legion, the Culexus dropped behind some Forgeworld indirect fire chaos version of a Manticore and tied it up in close combat until the Culexus finally killed it.

On the flip side, if I drop the Culexus and one marine from each Devestator squad (to prevent the opponent from scoring points on "The Reaper" secondary mission, I can pick up other goodies - like Inceptors to add to the bullet farm fed by raining men.

I like the Devastator loadout, it's aggressive and flexible. Do you split them into combat squads or are they at 10 man for durability? If for durability, maybe you could scrounge some points by reducing them to 7-8 man squads and get something else. You don't have any mobile scoring units, some scout bikers could be usefull in objective games.

Originally they were 10 men to maximize the effect of Lias. Dropping at least one per squad as mentioned before is a good idea to deny secondary points. I think dropping them further will help get other things... and mobility is needed.

Instead of scout bikers, what about Inceptors? Drop them along with Lias as they vomit bullets and can move 11" (10" +1 for Lias) on the next turn.

Battle Report are always welcome, even more so since you got wins against some very tough contenders.

As far as battle reports, I can go over the opponents and highlights... breaking them up for time (and memory)

My first match was against Dan Boyd from 40k Badcast ( Really great game as he was a good guy; here was his list:

General idea/thoughts:

- He seized on me and destroyed 2 stormtalons as the Shadowsword killed anything it pointed at. I thought I was going to get blown off the map as he had so many shots and 60 crunchies running around as bubble wrap.

- I dropped Lias in the middle of the table and used line of sight blocking to mitigate the effectiveness of his Leman Russes and Shadowsword. The Manticore, Basilisk, and Hydra sat in a corner and rained indirect fire on me... but mostly had little effect on the game. The rest of the match was us trading shots, attrition, and moving things around to score points.

- He had so. many. command points. Plus he had the warlord trait that allowed him to gain spent CPs back and the artifact that allowed him to get CPs when I used strategems.

- The Ravenguard chapter tactic essentially cut his firepower down by 33%. This was a boon as I was able to turn the slugfest in my favor. The battle with how much firepower I could drop wherever I wanted

- While we had similar amounts of points remaining at the end of the match, he had some dismounts and his indirect fire behind a hill in a corner while I had dude-bros spread out on objectives. I think I had 10-15 marines left, 5 scouts, the HQ, and the Culexus

- The Culexus was able to tie up a tank in a few fight phases, assassinate a psyker, and cause him to pull his psykers back.

- This is the first match where I used the strategem "Tactical Flexibility" which allowed a full Dev squad to break in 2 - the heavy weapons got to shoot and the 5 man combat squad with bolters went to take an objective.

More to follow on the other two matches...