A little help

[Orpheus108]

Greeting fellow traitors.

 

I currently building my Pallid Hand deathguard, and after finding somewhere on the forum list running traitor guard with Lemun Russ tanks.

This got me thinking of a Nurgle traitor IG army with heavy support to fit with the Pallid Hand theme.

 

Now for the help, where are the rules and such for traitor guard please

 

Cheers

[N1SB]

No problemo, thanks for checking in with us, the "traitor guard" rules are in Forgeworld's Imperial Armour Index for the Astra Militarum book:

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-PL/Imperial-Armour-Index-Astra-Militarum-2017

 

(which in turn relates to https://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/Index-imperium-vol-2-eng-2017 and a FAQ at https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/15/new-and-updated-forge-world-faqs-july16gw-homepage-post-2/ )

 

I gotta explain this bit, because I don't want you to be mislead.  That Forgeworld book has a bunch of things related to the Imperial Guard...including their own Forgeworld Tanks, Death Korps of Krieg, and...most relevant to your interests..."Renegades & Heretics".

 

Renegades & Heretics is its own army, with its own special rules, its own units, and...again to your interests...a list of Loyalist vehicles you can take, such as Chimera, Scout Sentinels, even Baneblades, and of course Leman Russes.

 

But HERE is the kicker and please take note.  Rules as written, the version of the Leman Russ Chaos can get is NOT the one in the new Astra Militarum Codex.  It deliberately refers you back to the now-outdated Index 2, which lacks certain benefits like the objective scoring rule.  That might change your mind.

 

That said, it's still totally worth having a look at because, even if you don't take Leman Russes, there may be other tanks you want to get.  Also to keep in mind is, you want these to form a separate detachment from your Death Guard force; think of them as Chaos/Covenant of Nurgle Allies.  It's because if you mix the 2 Codices/Indices in the same detachment, you'll lose out on the Death Guard legion trait.  That's not really a problem, as Renegades & Heretics are really easy to form into a detachment due to low cost HQs, but just something you have to remember.

[Orpheus108]

Fantastic. Got the Imperial Armour book and now looking through the rules, as I'm looking at the Renegade IG asa heavy detachment to suit the Pallid Hand, that and I just love seeing an army of heavies pounding the crap out of the table.

 

Thanks a ton, once I've gone through the rules I'll post a few lists for thoughts and query.

[Orpheus108]

Well after looking through both books, I'm looking at building a Renegade IG with Basilisks and a Baneblade and other heavy artillery. Though I wish the Stormlord was included. Love that model.

 

Run a renegade commander, psyker coven, militia and pretend. All these seem to fit with Pallid Hand DG

[Azekai]

But HERE is the kicker and please take note.  Rules as written, the version of the Leman Russ Chaos can get is NOT the one in the new Astra Militarum Codex.  It deliberately refers you back to the now-outdated Index 2, which lacks certain benefits like the objective scoring rule.  That might change your mind.

This is entirely debatable. I keep seeing this parroted around the internet like it is gospel, but the core 8th rules say to use the most recent incarnation of the entry whenever possible. Even if the Renegades and Heretics tells you to use the Index, when the names of the units are the same, most recent entry takes precedent.

 

It is almost like the folks making the main rules new the Index was a stopgap and that it would be replaced.

[Akrim]

 

But HERE is the kicker and please take note.  Rules as written, the version of the Leman Russ Chaos can get is NOT the one in the new Astra Militarum Codex.  It deliberately refers you back to the now-outdated Index 2, which lacks certain benefits like the objective scoring rule.  That might change your mind.

This is entirely debatable. I keep seeing this parroted around the internet like it is gospel, but the core 8th rules say to use the most recent incarnation of the entry whenever possible. Even if the Renegades and Heretics tells you to use the Index, when the names of the units are the same, most recent entry takes precedent.

 

It is almost like the folks making the main rules new the Index was a stopgap and that it would be replaced.

 

 

Yeah its certainly a grey area. Im curious if anyone has heard word from FW on this subject.

 

Not even sure it would make Renegades feasible against the codex armies sadly.

[N1SB]

Yeah its certainly a grey area. Im curious if anyone has heard word from FW on this subject.

Not even sure it would make Renegades feasible against the codex armies sadly.

Sorry for late reply. I've seen word from FW on this subject:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/40K_8th_ed_Update_Imperial_Armour_Index_Forces_of_the_Astra_Militarum_ver_1.0.pdf

This FAQ came out AFTER the Astra Militarum Codex. Here, it's adding more AM Vehicles available to Death Korps of Krieg. It continues to refer to Index: Imperium 2.

So it's not the Forge World book telling us to use the Index...it's the recent FAQ as well. I, too, hope there will be ANOTHER FAQ to FAQ this FAQ, but it's getting silly.

I see the point you're making, and it was recently pointed out in the Designer's Commentary (which is another FAQ)'s Flowchart. I was just asking my friends on this:

That top box, DOES YOUR MODEL HAVE A DATASHEET IN A CODEX? Yes, those Leman Russes that R&H can take, have a Datasheet in the new Codex.

(Be aware, the condition this is based on isn't the unit name even, it's based on The Model and its wargear.)

That's what I would point to, it's right there. However, in the name of good sportsmanship, I'm going with the old school Use The Interpretation Less Advantageous To Me. But in case you want to debate it with your opponent, I think all you need to do is point them to this chart.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Not 1 Step Backwards

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

You will never a convince a person who makes up rules by positing a rules-bases argument.

 

I've had this issue come up in a similar fashion; a dude I played a few weeks back was paying the reduced CSM price for Bloodletters because 'you use the latest datasheet' and the latest datasheet reduced the price. Except it didn't, datasheets don't include a price and they don't tell you where to find rules, so a new Leman Russ datasheet is totally irrelevant when an actual rule tells you that you have to use a specific datasheet.

 

Unless you simply invent your own rules, apparently.