Help me build a tank company

[Godeskian]

Hello all.

 

Never played guard before, didn't want to paint fifty billion guardsmen to be honest when a friend said 'have you considered a tank company?', to which I replied something erudite and well spoken and not at all something like 'a what now'?

 

Anyway thoughts on the following for a pure tank company? Keep in mind I have no idea what I'm doing with this army.

A friend owns a bajilion tanks and is letting me borrow some to test out if I enjoy playing the army

 

My first 1k, I'm thinking Catachans Spearhead detachment

tank commander (LRBT) x2

LRBT, x3

LR Punisher

No sponsons or upgrades, 1000 points exactly.

 

Thoughts? Should I strip out one of the tanks for upgrades? Should I make the commander, one of them at least thy end punisher for his better ballistic skill?

[WarriorFish]

Welcome to the Guard soldier ;) Tank companies are possible thanks to detachments, plus you can supplement them with other armour like Sentinels and Hellhounds for some versatility and more importantly precious numbers. The Leman Russ is formidable but you pay for it and it's not quick. It also have vulnerabilities to close assault so you'll need to factor that in. As mentioned Sentinels can perform infantry's role to a degree, and Hellhounds are excellent to run as pickets to interfere and generally make a nuisance of themselves :)

 

Making use of the Tank Commander's BS3+ is a good plan so the punisher is a good mount for him, otherwise the standard battle cannon Russ is generally quite capable so makes for a good default to handle most threats. Be sure to move slowly to maximise fire power as you'll be badly outnumbered and susceptible for first turn charges without pickets so every shot will count! With your friend's tanks to borrow you're in a good place to test things out and see how they go before drawing up a model list :tu:

[Feral_80]

It can be fun but without screen it will perfmor very poor against assaults, especially deepstrikes. I suggest to drop at least a tank in order to include a couple of Scout sentinels and possibly infantry squads just for screen. Failing that, you might find a couple Hellhounds useful as well (or possibly in additiokn), but that means removing more tanks.

[Major_Gilbear]

You might want to make them Tallarn rather than Catachan, so that they can move and still hit what they shoot at.

 

Edit: Making them Valhallan could be an interesting option too - they stay fully operational for much longer when damaged, which in a small game where you'll certainly be outnumbered might be very helpful.

 

Another thing to consider is that units like Sentinels may be helpful in bulking up your numbers a little in such a compact army - to hold ground, or spread out, to deny enemy deepstrikes, or to capture/contest objectives.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Major_Gilbear

[olcottr]

If you're only using tanks, then fit as many tanks in as possible before spending on sponsons or upgrades.  You're going to have at least one tank falling back from melee so the others can shoot at the target.

 

Make 1 of your TC the Leman Russ, but not the Warlord.  You want your Warlord out of harm's way. Also consider giving your Warlord the trait that gives him an extra order for use on one of the regular LRBT.

[KhorneHunter57x]

Hi! I've been running an IG tank list almost since the Codex dropped, so I have a bit of experience to add to the good points the others have made.

(I typically play 2k points with the Tallarn doctrine - typically a Baneblade, Vanquisher and Executioner Tank Commanders, and the rest Battle Tanks. Track Guards and Hull Lascannons across the board, with Plasma sponsons on the Executioner and HBs on the MBTs, with Stubbers and Hunter-Killers to fill the rest of the points.)

The army's huge weakness is to assault - something I somewhat cover for with the Baneblade - and Deep Striking units.  I've heard that Scout Sentinels are good for covering both bases - cheap, and can push forward to create an anti-DS bubble (and every gun pointed at them is one less shooting your armor).  I've been meaning to try Hellhounds in that role so everything's a tracked vehicle (for aesthetics).  Additionally, you won't have many Command Points to work with - usually 5 or 6.  I use Kurov's Aquila as well as the Grand Strategist Warlord Trait to help offset this.
 

You might want to make them Tallarn rather than Catachan, so that they can move and still hit what they shoot at.

Without sponsons or hull lascannons, being Tallarn doesn't really do much, thanks to Grinding Advance. Catachan and Valhallan are probably the best in that case, with Vostroyan being useful if you want the shorter-ranged tanks. I also think that Mordian could be useful, due to the army's weakness in melee.
 

If you're only using tanks, then fit as many tanks in as possible before spending on sponsons or upgrades.  You're going to have at least one tank falling back from melee so the others can shoot at the target.

Yep. Pretty much anything can lock down a Leman Russ by charging it, and it's painful (and silly, but them's the rules) to have your 66 ton plasteel behemoth completely shut down by a couple arrogant gretchin. Either having enough tanks to not care, or a screen of infantry/Sentinels/Hellhounds/something to prevent charges is really the only solution.

The one upgrade I swear by, however, is Track Guards. Of course, I could be biased because I'm using Tallarn, but retaining your mobility is essential when it comes to objective-based missions. It's funny when you move+Full Throttle a crippled LR to snag a semi-distant objective - forcing your opponent to deal with your almost-dead tank. However, they aren't as useful with Valhallans, of course.

[bigmic66]

Been smashing out an armoured company. Went to a 60 man rt tourney and dominated everyone bar the guy that won. He played full starweaver mounted harlequins with 42 fusion pistols and got first turn with the 9" from centre deployment.

 

Made me consider running bullgryns or mech infantry to screen.

 

I ran pask BC, PC sponsors, lc ,

tank commander in punisher with 3hb, battle cannon russ HB

Plasma execution Russ

Demolisher trip flamer Russ

2 wyverns

 

3 armoured PC sents

2 HF scout sents

 

Shadowsword.

 

Super heavy is mandatory for cc defense.

[OnboardG1]

For Catachan I was contemplating putting the tank commander in a full-plas executioner. Given the range and the rerolls to volume of fire (plus Harker because I love that guy) it seems like a pretty beefy option.

[bigmic66]

I'm going to drop the demolisher Russ and 5 sentinels and insert 4 plasma infantry squads with 3 psykers in chimeras. Maintains theme, armour saturation but also provides some buffer to assault

Plasma executioner goes great with access to reroll ones. I had pask passing reroll shots dice with order and i t got serious work done.

[4ndroid]

Here's my current tank squadron 

typically run as Tallarn, ripped all the sponsons off my old models, and magnetized the new ones

remember the Crush Them Stratagem for 1cp if one of your tanks is about to get tar pitted by gretchins or equivalent 

also the ambush stratagem is awesome to have 2 or 3 tanks (1 unit of vehicles) deploy on an enemy's flank

 

Spearhead Detachment +1cp 

1 Tank Commander usually Punisher or Battle Tank (depending on how I'm feeling that day) 199pts

3x Battle Tank heavy bolter - 152pts ea

2x Devil Dogs heavy bolter - 101pts ea

2x Demolishers - 170pts ea (I usually have these ambush and take out whatever dreadnought or tank that's been annoying me)

2x Punishers - 150pts ea 

 

4CP, 94PL, 1497pts  and the look on your opponents face when they see this wall of death!

 

I'll get pix up one of these days  

[Withershadow]

So no one cares for sponsons?

[iceman2160]

I have 24 Leman Russ tanks, of varying weapons and design, but I still put sponsons, pintle heavy stubbers and dozer blades on each of them.

[bigmic66]

I run sponsons on my tank commanders and pask. Plasma on pask, plasma on executioners and heavy bolters punishers.

[OnboardG1]

So no one cares for sponsons?

 

For normal russes it depends on regiment I guess. Cadians might like them because they have to be stationary anyway to use their trait. Tallarn don't care about moving so taking heavy bolters gives a bit extra firepower. For my Catachans I think I'd maybe take heavy flamers on a Demolisher but otherwise I'd leave them bare to keep them as cheap as possible (Battlecannon and Heavy Bolter probably). 

[duz_]

Sponsons only if I have the points

Order of priority

Plasma cannons for plasmacutioner

HBs for punisher

Whatever I can afford for Demolisher

 

The other longer ranged ones I generally don't bother with

[4ndroid]

agreed, my list is either all heavy bolter sponsons or no sponsons depending on the point level 

I'm thinking about adding a couple manticores if they ever show up in the online store again 

[Withershadow]

I run sponsons on my tank commanders and pask. Plasma on pask, plasma on executioners and heavy bolters punishers.

I've been wondering about this approach. Tank commanders are quite expensive, so when stacked with sponsons the tank becomes super expensive. The executioner for example is 192 points before the 45 point hike for the commander. I wonder if a list is running a battle tank with hull lascannon and a plasmacutioner is better served making the battle tank the commander instead of the executioner.

 

If everything is one basket, target priority is easy and you've lost nearly 250 points of tank. The other way around they are forced to choose between the seemingly less threatening commander (as if 2d6 battle cannon shots plus lascannon at BS3+ is not threatening), or the big scary all the plasma executioner. Both tanks will be just under 200 points, too.

[OnboardG1]

 

I run sponsons on my tank commanders and pask. Plasma on pask, plasma on executioners and heavy bolters punishers.

I've been wondering about this approach. Tank commanders are quite expensive, so when stacked with sponsons the tank becomes super expensive. The executioner for example is 192 points before the 45 point hike for the commander. I wonder if a list is running a battle tank with hull lascannon and a plasmacutioner is better served making the battle tank the commander instead of the executioner.

 

If everything is one basket, target priority is easy and you've lost nearly 250 points of tank. The other way around they are forced to choose between the seemingly less threatening commander (as if 2d6 battle cannon shots plus lascannon at BS3+ is not threatening), or the big scary all the plasma executioner. Both tanks will be just under 200 points, too.

 

 

That's true, although I'm not sure I'd even want to run the plasma sponsons on a regular tank because of the efficiency loss. In smaller games I'd definitely be inclined to load up the command tank because it's unlikely that you're going to see a sufficient volume of fire to kill the tank before the first round (and if you can get first turn then you can strike and shroud plus astropath shenanigans to keep your TC alive). In larger games I think I'd be more likely to put him in a punisher or leave the sponsons off to reduce his exposure and liability.

[Withershadow]

Fair point, the reduced return on investment is evident on any gun not in the main turret.  An executioner cannon is 20 points for D6 plasma shots, that you can fire twice if you move slowly enough.  Two plasma sponsons is 30 points for "only" 2D3 plasma shots!

 

But yes, they definitely are still quite appealing when on a 2+ reroll 1s platform like Pask.

 

I do like the heavy bolter punishers in practice.  They tend to be pretty close to the enemy, so take a lot of enemy assaults relatively to an executioner and especially a battle tank.  Having 29 shots on overwatch that can hit on 5+ with a stratagem has been juicy, so I've thrown in a stormbolter for good measure.

 

My favorite variant by far remains the Conqueror.  I have a couple of Incinerators from a 30K lot I got in a trade, I wonder how folks would feel about me running them as Conquerors?  There are no Volkite demi-culverins in 40K!

 

[Mitchverr]

I wouldnt mind, though I think it fits plasma better myself, its a cool model still :) (though i am working on creating my own turrets/guns for tanks, i might have to make a conq to fill the gap for chaps like yourself   )

 

On to my main question however, are the plasma kitted vehicles always worth? I get going for the relatively cheap AP, but at that point I ask myself why not look into getting a pair of medusa's to run around the field able to ignore line of sight problems? I get the TC being able to order and 3+ etc, but when its loaded out its about the price of 2 medusa's and for me, the 2 hulls over 1 seems like a very strong contender.

[bigmic66]

I should state I also play cadians so rerolling ones bs3+ with pound them to dust. The extra 30 points goes a really long way.

[KhorneHunter57x]

So no one cares for sponsons?

I run Tallarn, so that does have an impact on my decision-making, but I use:

-Heavy Bolter sponsons on my MBTs

-Plasma sponsons on my Executioner

-Melta sponsons on my Punishers

 

Although I prefer the look of the Leman Russ without sponsons, I also think that they should almost always equipped fluff-wise. As for my choices: the Executioner is a relic of a bygone age, so it would get the rarest/most complex sponsons (that also synergise with the main weapon), and the other two have sponsons that cover the shortcomings of the other armament - Heavy Bolters to supplement the Battle Cannon and Lascannon of the MBT, and a Lascannon/Multi-Melta loadout for the anti-infantry Punisher. I stay away from the all-HB Punisher because it just feels wrong using a tank that can't do anything against enemy armor. (note: I built all of my tanks post-8th, so splitting fire has always been a thing for me)

 

Sure, strip them of upgrades and go with just the nose Heavy Bolter and I could probably fit a couple more tanks into my lists, but that's not what I'm going for.

Edited November 21, 2017 by KhorneHunter57x

[Withershadow]

Punishers can work against heavy armor through sheer volume of fire. How have the melta sponsons worked out?

[KhorneHunter57x]

Punishers can work against heavy armor through sheer volume of fire. How have the melta sponsons worked out?

I was speaking more from a fluff perspective on the 'tanks without anti-tank' bit.

 

Melta sponsons on a Punisher have worked out pretty great for me. With the same range as the Punisher cannon, I can usually find a tougher target hanging around the infantry I want to destroy; the Tallarn doctrine makes them relatively accurate on the move, so the short range isn't much of an issue; finally, having a hull Lascannon + 2 Multi-Meltas with the overwatch stratagem can make heavier single-model units, like Dreadnoughts, more reluctant to charge than they would otherwise be. (3 shots on a 5+ means one hit on average - and that's not including what the Punisher does. )

 

I used to run them as Battle Tanks with meltas.   Wasn't too thrilled with that, and I was planning on ripping the meltas off and going to all-HB sponsons with MBTs, but recent games using them as Punishers have sold me. (FYI, I use the Battle Tank hull with the Vanquisher cannon bit as my Battle Cannon. Left it unglued as it plugs in nicely, and I've recently started converting the muzzle of leftover Punisher cannons onto the same plug from the stock Battle Cannon so I can freely swap between the two.)

 

I've been tempted to throw Augur Arrays on them to give a re-roll with the hull guns, as CPs are in pretty short supply for a tank army.

Edited November 21, 2017 by KhorneHunter57x

[narcolepticltd]

Aesthetically I prefer the look of a russ w/o sponsons, but tend to start adding them in once I know I have the points available when list building. Someone posted a nice conversion that inset the sponsons so the outer edge is flush with the main armor panel, but since it was to facebook and I didn't save the image... I can't find it at the moment (it resembles the lines more closely to a macharius or malcador sponson).