Assault Kastelans!

[Feral_80]

I'll sum it up with a rare sample of pictographic evidence:

 

 

 

So just like others, I'm trying to make sense of our unfortunate codex by moving away from Mars, which is at the same time very rigid in terms of army composition, very boring in terms of tactics, and too static to contest the field.

 

I want to give a try to assault close-combat Kastelans, because hell, everybody knows that the shooty version set in a Cawl-stle of boredom is the good one. So why not try the opposite. Also because -1/-2/-3/-4 (a big you Eldar, really) to be hit from afar armies seem to be multiplying, and that's really boring as well.

 

 

Plus, this lets me drop the as-mandatory Datasmith. As much as he is good for his points, he is still another small tax that we are supposed pay, and won't do anything at all against a shooty army. I'd rather spend 1 CP to get the one and only protocol change I want, and besides, even with a Datasmith we are going to pay that 1 CP anyway 1 out of 6 times (or possibly more, given my average rolls), which come on GW, really adds insult to injury.

 

 

So my list is the following. All Stygies VIII for infiltration and decent buff anyway.

 

Battalion:

 

TPD: volkite blaster, phosphoenix

TPE

 

5 Rangers, 2x arquebus

5 Rangers, 2x arquebus

5 rangers, 1x arc rifle (suicidal, just need to keep deepstrikers away)

5 rangers, 1x arc rifle (as above)

 

10 Fulgurites

5 Sicarian infiltrators, taser and big-dakka pistol

5 Sicarian infiltrators, powersword and small-dakka pistol

 

3 Kastelans, all with fists and combustor

2x Onagers, neutron laser

 

Outrider:

 

TPD (warlord)

3x Sydonian dragoons

1 Onager, icarus

 

 

 

Pretty simple. Infiltrating big robots + Fulgurites, as well as both Infiltrators, and run forward with the chickens. And pray. Along with the CP to later change the Kastelans protocol, that means 4 CPs (or 3, see below about the TPD) for the whole game.

 

Likely:

- select (not roll) Shroudpsalm turn 1. I won't need it again on subsequent turns anyway. Then select/roll and hope for the close-combat oriented canticles, which anyway are 50% (1 crap, 2 decent) of the whole, so decent chances to get something at least vaguely useful

- Kastelans will keep Aegis until after they shoot something, eat the first overwatch, and then hopefully charge. Then enter Conqueror protocol, and let's see what happens.

- March forward the non-warlord TPD and everything else except arquebuses, to ideally join/suppor the infiltrators. If I really feel to spend CPs, I might also infiltrate a TPD with the Autocaduceus instead of the phosphoenix, to support the robots.

 

 

I've also come up with an alternative, in just 1 detachment, which nets me less CP but also less drops and thus better chances to go first. I remove 1 Onager, add 10 Corpuscarii (also infiltrated), 1 Robot, and group the 3 Dragoons into 1 unit (also possibly infiltrated). This effectively leaves me with only 2-3 CPs. Which means that that attractive Conqueror stratagem on the Dragoons is more a dream than anything else.

 

 

TPD: volkite blaster, phosphoenix

TPE

 

5 Rangers, 2x arquebus

5 Rangers, 2x arquebus

5 rangers, 1x arc rifle (suicidal, just need to keep deepstrikers away)

5 rangers, 1x arc rifle (as above)

 

10 Fulgurites

10 Corpuscarii

 

5 Sicarian infiltrators, taser and big-dakka pistol

5 Sicarian infiltrators, powersword and small-dakka pistol

 

 

4 Kastelans, all with fists and combustor

2x Onagers, neutron laser

 

 

 

 

I really feel naked without a third Onager anyway. I also considered more complicated options like moving Infiltrators to a Ryza Vanguard, but that again requires too much tax, and the HQ left behind would be useless anyway.

 

What's your take?? Have you tried something like this?

Edited November 15, 2017 by Feral_80

[brother_b]

I'm interested in how this does. I am building a Stygies army myself and have considered the melee robots (more likely magnetize them) as an option. I agree that more Onagers are very good (on paper I haven't fielded my army yet). We need that heavy fire and we don't get the double tapping ability that most heavy tanks have got recently.

 

Anyway, great idea, I look forward to seeing how you pull this off.

[Teun135]

I don't see any Datasmiths, so how do you plan to change protocols? You can only change them if you have a Datasmith within 6" of the unit.

 

Although this list looks very punchy, I think it overlooks our main strength, which is phenomenal shooting. Rangers with TAs have never done much for me. In theory they sound great, but  my opponent is usually smart enough to keep well away from them so they can't snipe characters. And for the points, I would much rather add another whole unit of something useful, such as another Onager, or even upgrade that Enginseer into another Dominus for the reroll aura.

 

I sometimes use a unit of 2 punchy Kastelans as a counter charge unit, or a screen for my shooting robots, but I think they are not as effective for the points. The shooty kind just have so much weight of fire behind them, especially when in double-fire mode. A dominus escorting them for rerolls of 1 and they are great.

[Feral_80]

The plan is to use the stratagem to change the protocol. Only need to change it once anyway, and it's both immediate and reliable. Worth it over a 52-pt otherwise quite useless Datasmith tax.

 

As for the firepower: I know it's good, but a static gunline is 1) boring as hell to play, and 2) it's not going to claim any objective, and thus 3) is likely going to lose objective-based matches regardless of its domination of the shooting phase. Zero indirect fire and zero fliers mean you are not going to table a decent opponent regardless, and if he got the lead on VPs you'll be unable to catch up.

[MithrilForge]

Glad to see someone going outside of the standard Ad-Mech Template, sounds like a fun idea and a nice break away from the Copy and Paste Ad-Mech lists of today.

i intend to have some Fist packing Kastelans when i get round to affording another box.

when i read the title i thought of this...

Good luck with the army and let us know how it fares...

Cheers,Mithril

[DeStinyFiSh]

I had a game last Sunday playing the following:

 

1 TPD

1 TPE

 

10 Vanguard with 3 Plasma and Omnispex

10 Rangers with 3 TAs

5 Breachers (wanted to try them)

 

5 Uzi Infiltrators

1 Datasmith

 

4 Dragoons (1 Unit)

 

3 CC Robots

 

1 Knight Errant

 

 

Thanks to the low unit count I got turn 1 and dropped the Robots and the Vanguard behind his lines. I then used Reroll 1 Canticle to avoid overcharge on the Vanguard (Doctrina Stratagem would have been more usefull allowing me to go Shroudpsalm, but I have forgotten about that Stratagem tbh).

So my Vanguard Killed a unit of Laser Devastators in shooting, the Robots burned 3 out of 5 Sniper Scouts and then charged a Redemptor Dread in Conqueror mode, doing 18 wounds.

 

After taking that much heavy fire power from him on turn 1 he struggeled to counter the Robots or to hurt the Knight at all.

When he eventually killed the last Robot, I spent a CP to let it auto explode, taking a Leutnant and a Librarian with him.

 

All in all it was expensive in points and CPs, but well worth it.

In addition to all the CC stuff I would always take a unit of Plasma Vanguard as well. If your opponent castles up and has a big meatshield outfront like contrcripts, your Robots or E-Priests will never reach a juicy target, but with 18" Range your little tin men can.

 

Regarding the Datasmith you are right, he was pretty much useless. I took him in case he fields an assault army and I want my Robots to stay behind, but even then spending a CP would have been the better option.

Edited November 17, 2017 by DeStinyFiSh

[Xisor]

Engage Necromechanic Protocols

 

Mention of the Redemptor vs Robots reminded me: has anyone *built* a redemptor?

 

The sculptor has really gone to town on reinforcing the old idea that Robots and Dreadnoughts use a lot of the same parts. The leg and arm pieces in particular are strikingly similar pieces! I mean: really.

 

The sarcophagus piece could be stripped out an aside sort of Kastellan dome/similar piece on place and some of the other armour plates left off, or slightly rounded and they would be *exact*!

 

Certainly, of anyone fancies converting a 41st Millenium edition of a Thanatar or other big robot, the Redemptor kit seems a delightful companion to the Kastelans.

 

Gives me some optimism about possibly getting a little detachment of techmarine/Redemptor/Thunderfires on the go to assist my robots!

 

----

 

On Topic

 

How's this worked out for people in the time since?

 

I've been looking at doing the same, after a fashion. That is:

 

- Perhaps go Lucius so I can TP & Have the relic that let's my Datasmith zoom about his extended maniple (2x2 Fistbustor Ribbits)

- a coterie of other ostensibly "dangerous" (or dangerous looking) things to give the opponent some distraction from the robots (TPD, a clutch of 15 Electropriests, some Ruststalkers, an Onager, some Breachers)

 

It wouldn't be big on CPs, but with only two needed to deep strike the dual duos of robots, the remainder could be "emergency use" dealios.

 

Any luck with something like that?

[clanfield]

I ran 2 fisty bots last week 1 with phophser blaster ran aegis protocol whole battle they shot up some thousand sons nicely the two turns it ok to close and then charged and mashed (that's right) up some more in close combat

 

I run mars because that's how mine were painted from before and so far not working out too bad I tend to swamp my foes with skitz infantry and have a smatter of other units round the edges gun lines need not apply 

 

also mucking about with a modile repair post of some rangers and a Icarus Ongar protecting a engineseer which is paying good devidends too

[Charlo]

If I build more Kastellans, I'll certainly go FIST & FLAME (mainly as 4 shooting with Wrath of Mars is more than enough to chump anything with MW).

 

However, I have a load of Legio Cybernetica to build, so more than likely I'll just be using Castellax once they get rules :D

[DanPesci]

Played 2 games against my mates DA last weekend, running a stygies list.

 

In the first I took 4x fistybots, but they all died when he got first turn. I hadnt realised he could shunt black knights 20" forwards and still shoot plasma talons aferwards using strategmems (he also had JP librarian/leuitenant dropping in to give them all reroll to hit/wound, and used the strategem to overcharged to 3 damage!).

 

Only saving grace here was that he did so many wounds i reflected back about 12 mortal wounds into his squad of knights. So they still managed a nice bit of damage 

 

 

Second game we had i switched them to 4x shooty bots and sat them back/was more cautious with them. They caused carnage all game.

 

Im still convinced you can run fisty bots well...its just my mates DA list has way too good a counter to them being aggresively deployed with his black knight squad (and he has 3-4 scout squads for table coverage which seriously cuts down on where i can drop them in with stygies strategem.

Edited February 12, 2018 by DanPesci

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

Definitely gotta make me some Karate Kastelans now!

[DanPesci]

Just to keep this topic rolling a bit...

 

Im looking for ideas for converting the assualt kastellans a bit...

 

nothing too extreme but im not 100% keen on the big fists (or the combo of them and the shoulder flamer)..so id like to swap out at least 50% of the squad to looking a bit different.

 

Anyone tackled this before or seen good examples anywhere? I play wolves also, so was maybe going to look at using some spare dreadnought claws or something to make them look a bit meaner.

 

EDIT - found this conversion which is pretty nice! Anyone know where the head is from??

 

http://www.puttyandpaint.com/images/uploads/artistworks/12362/img_20170214_170005_112__sized.jpg

Edited February 13, 2018 by DanPesci

[Feral_80]

So I finally tried Fistellans yesterday at 2.000 pts against a pure Custodes army. They were great and saved my butt.

 

The list was:

 

Mars battalion:

Cawl, TPD

3x grav kataphrons

2x squads of 5x rangers with 2x arquebus each

2x squads of 5x vanguard with 1x plasma each

1x squad of 5x vanguard with 1x arc rifle

2x Onagers with laser+stubber

 

Ryza outrider:

TPD

2x squads of 5x discostick-priests

3x Kastelans with fists and phosphor

3x Dragoons with lance

 

 

Ryza was great and that reroll 1s to hit was really handy. Custodes hit *really* hard and their shooting is actually quite good - turn 1 he wiped a Vanguard squad but 1 man, damanged an Onager, and wiped 5 priests and wiped all 3 of my kataphrons. Facing Custodes is very aleatory because if the player rolls good their invulnerable saves will just keep them on the table, and on turn 1 I barely inflicted any damage. He was almost winning on objectives but I managed to table him on turn 4. 

 

Two things saved me: mortal wounds (wrath of Mars + priests) and the Kastelans. When on turn 2 his 6 bikes + uber-commander on bike assaulted my lines I thought it was over already. The commander alone is a beast at T 6, 7 W, 2+, 3++, and 5+ FnP. Then I switched the Kastelans to the double fighting protocols, counter-charged him, and they smashed him relatively easy - just too many hits to save, and they really hurt at 3W each. Support charges by Vanguards also helped quite a bit because by inflicting -1T they help Kastelans wound almost always on 2+ (sometimes rerolling 1s with the canticle).

 

After that, the Kastelans proceeded in smashing through a couple of squads of normal Custodes. They were eventually destroyed on the charge by 4 Custodes terminators (*really* scary), but it was too late. Combined Vanguard and Onagers fire eventually took these down, because they are really slow once they drop.

 

I will certainly use this list again - it's a lot of fun, and honestly much more fun than the dakkabots. Cawl can probably be dropped safely, not worth it without his Kastle of pain.

2x squads of 5x vanguard with 1x plasma each 

[Vel'Cona]

@DanPesci no idea but that's an incredibly cool conversion!  Wonder if it's a third party bit?

[DanPesci]

@DanPesci no idea but that's an incredibly cool conversion!  Wonder if it's a third party bit?

 

Yeah i was thinking it must be third party or just totally kitbashed. The recessed skull in it with the lights/eyes looks awesome and suitably grimdark

 

The flamer arm itself looks like it should be suitably straightfoward

[Xisor]

I had a lovely Open War game against Blood Angels last night.

 

6 objectives across the map, only one is the *real* objective. (Turns out it was the first one I held,but due to a mixup of timings to check, I'd already advanced my vanguard forces halfway across the board hoard.

 

Twist was splitting your force in three spread over first three turns. Made for intriguing escalation. (I split: {2 TPD,3x10 Vanguard, 2x5 Tangers, 1x3 Breachers},{2x2 Fistbustors, Onager, TPE, Datasmith, Dragoon},{TPD, 5 Ampires, 2x5 Jazzhanders})

 

Pertaining purely to the Fistbustors - the ICs managed to more or less wipe out a Razorback and a Tactical Squad that was charging, then being jabbed at by Mephiston. He managed to down two, but I landed a bit of damage in him.

 

The second lot managed to jump in on Mephiston and, with some command points to switch over to re-roll-ones-in-fights Canticles (when I rolled four two's and two ones for attacks on their second round under Punch (Card) Protocols), thereby actually landing another two attacks on the beggar.

 

Long story short: Kastellans out-punched Mephistons. More like Miffediston.

 

----

 

Not the most impressive thing I've had done, but it was a good bit more ordered and sensible (and properly organised) than I'd had enacted before.

 

The 4+ to hit with three attacks is pretty horrifying though. Not a huge amount we can do to offset that, is there?

 

(I was very fond of the Incendine Combustors though. Not amazing, but it felt like a proper torrent of fire.)

[DanPesci]

The 4+ to hit with three attacks is pretty horrifying though. Not a huge amount we can do to offset that, is there?

 

 

 

- TPD close by to reroll 1st to hit 

- On top of that...Prime hermeticon warlord trait allows rerolls of all hits in CC within 6" of your warlord (but worth taking over necromechanic when you already reroll 1s??? not sure)

edit - scratch that, it only affects infantry

 

- Chant of the remorseless fist canticle allows rerolls of 1 in combat

 

- Conqeror protocols giving you double the attacks.

 

But thats about it. Theres a relic that allows you to reroll hits in combat, but it only affects skitarri keyword units

Edited February 14, 2018 by DanPesci

[banis]

The robots looks awesome with the fists..But each time i consider making some, i cant help thinking i am turning one of our best units into one of our worst. we have some amazing CC units with the electro priests and dragoons, and i cant see a reason to include CC robots over them besides the rule of cool:P. 

[Xisor]

But each time i consider making some, i cant help thinking i am turning one of our best units into one of our worst.

I'm somewhat similar to that, albeit inverted. Each time I consider going for the more effective dakkastellans, I can't help thinking I'm turning one of our most fun units into one of our most dull.

 

Watching HPBs evaporate squads is, I'm sure, entertaining, but just popping them in place and letting them do their thing feels, in my gut, so... intensely boring. Especially for a high-points unit. Leaving rangers sat about not going places very much is fine, but with big hefty units of robots? BORING! (Well, that's what my gut screams at me when I consider it. I might quell my stomach and give it a try just to see if it's more fun than my insides think.)

[Charlo]

 

But each time i consider making some, i cant help thinking i am turning one of our best units into one of our worst.

I'm somewhat similar to that, albeit inverted. Each time I consider going for the more effective dakkastellans, I can't help thinking I'm turning one of our most fun units into one of our most dull.

 

Watching HPBs evaporate squads is, I'm sure, entertaining, but just popping them in place and letting them do their thing feels, in my gut, so... intensely boring. Especially for a high-points unit. Leaving rangers sat about not going places very much is fine, but with big hefty units of robots? BORING! (Well, that's what my gut screams at me when I consider it. I might quell my stomach and give it a try just to see if it's more fun than my insides think.)

 

Fellow Adept, from your outburst I calculate that your cogitators must be re-calibrated to fully comprehend the concept of:

 

Hidden Content

MORE DAKKA

[Frostglaive]

I do agree with Xisor. As amusing as it can be to have a bunch of Kastelans light everything up with copious amounts of phosphorous, it does get pretty dull after a while. Not only that, but it's just too easy. More dakka is always great, but there's no challenge to it. Hordes of Tyranids coming your way? Shoot them with robots. Guardsmen taking objectives? Shoot them with robots. Shoot them with robots, shoot them with robots, etc. etc. etc. It's dull, repetitive, and just too easy.

I've used Assault robots a few times now. They're effective for what they do, albeit costly in points. And they become a much larger target for the enemy being so close to them. I typically use them in conjunction with electro-priests and infiltrate them both in, have some Infiltrators in deep strike, and I just recently picked up 3 Dragoons to use as well. I feel like having all those working together, it'll cause for mass carnage and mayhem in the enemy lines.

[Feral_80]

The dakka kastle of Kastellans is certainly one of the most boring things ever to field and play, both with and against.

 

A good part of that, however, depends on one of the stupidest mechanics of the 8th, ie reroll bubbles. Terribly time-consuming and dreadfully tedious, again, both for you and for your opponent. 

 

Unfortunately, the mechanic is so radicated in the game through all codexes that not using it basically means to auto-lose. I can see no way to fix it at the moment.

 

In the case of AdMech, this is even worsened by the fact that the codex is so poor and only offers a couple competitively viable lists.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Feral_80

[Xisor]

Part of me has an idea for a robot-heavy army. Essentially a Legio Cybernetica maniple. But with the dakkastellans being much more in the role of roving gunslingers (permanently in Aegis) rather than full-dakka.

 

Indeed, at that level, I'd be inclined to have them operate with dual HPBs and an Incendine Combustor, acting as flankers of one stripe or another. (If Lucius/Stygies VIII, telefiltrating them in away from any data smiths.) That way they can be a serious threat, but not so heavily limiting on options.

 

That said, the cost of running (in my mind, 8) that many robots isn't exactly offering up a huge allotment of alternative options either!

 

Still, it'd certainly be entertaining!

[banis]

 

But each time i consider making some, i cant help thinking i am turning one of our best units into one of our worst.

I'm somewhat similar to that, albeit inverted. Each time I consider going for the more effective dakkastellans, I can't help thinking I'm turning one of our most fun units into one of our most dull.

 

Watching HPBs evaporate squads is, I'm sure, entertaining, but just popping them in place and letting them do their thing feels, in my gut, so... intensely boring. Especially for a high-points unit. Leaving rangers sat about not going places very much is fine, but with big hefty units of robots? BORING! (Well, that's what my gut screams at me when I consider it. I might quell my stomach and give it a try just to see if it's more fun than my insides think.)

 

My point was more that i would rather do without robots all together and focus on units like dragoons and electro priests. 

[Tyriks]

Just to keep this topic rolling a bit...

 

Im looking for ideas for converting the assualt kastellans a bit...

 

nothing too extreme but im not 100% keen on the big fists (or the combo of them and the shoulder flamer)..so id like to swap out at least 50% of the squad to looking a bit different.

 

Anyone tackled this before or seen good examples anywhere? I play wolves also, so was maybe going to look at using some spare dreadnought claws or something to make them look a bit meaner.

 

EDIT - found this conversion which is pretty nice! Anyone know where the head is from??

 

http://www.puttyandpaint.com/images/uploads/artistworks/12362/img_20170214_170005_112__sized.jpg

Looks like the Decepticon Shockwave.