Get Ready For Chapter Approved

[TheWolfLord]

 

 

 

If you only play with a couple of friends, it's not.

If you play with a wider range of people and / or go to tournaments, then yea it's pretty mandatory to play with the updates since smite is supposed to be nerfed, the point changes and the matched missions.

The smite nerf is not a direct nerf to smite but an increase of points for psyker so you can't spam them as easily anymore (like Malefic Lords going up to 80ppm).

The Smite change is coming in the balance update in March

Where did you hear that?

Pete Foley mentioned it on Warhammer TV last Friday.

[chapter master 454]

So are the point changes going to be published for free as part of an errata or they going to hold on to them tightly?

 

Chapter Approved is looking heavily more like a supplement with the new rules added than anything at this rate with the only thing tying it to being needed is the point changes (which people are saying is only a fraction of the book).

[the jeske]

I’m still trying to figure out how anyone is viewing this book as mandatory.

well if you play a DG army or primaris, you kind of a have to get it to get better rules. Plus if someone plays at any larger even they will have to use the most updated stuff, so there is no going around it for them either.

 

 

The Smite change is coming in the balance update in March

 

I wonder how GW people imagine 1ksons or GK to play with smite nerfed. Specially for GK their smite is like a hvy weapon[because their own do not work at all], if that gets nerfed,  they will become something I can't imagine yet. Because they sure are not a melee or shoty list.

[Bryan Blaire]

well if you play a DG army or primaris, you kind of a have to get it to get better rules. Plus if someone plays at any larger even they will have to use the most updated stuff, so there is no going around it for them.

So you’re in agreement that it isn’t mandatory to play 40K at all, the need to purchase it is a player decision, regardless of their reasons or personal perceived “need”. I mean, if you have the rules and the Codexes necessary, you have full capability of playing the game without any use of the 2017 Chapter Approved at all - unless someone wants to be brave enough to say that what we’ve been playing since 8th Edition came out wasn’t 40K.

[the jeske]

if it nerfs your army no one is going to want to play vs the old better version of it. if it buffs your army you will want to use the book. So it is a need, the same way you require to breath or eat or drink. Sure there are those rare cases when a person may try to go on without any of the 3, but they soon either stop or die[which in case of w40k would be stop playing].

 

the prerequisites for someone to not need the book are huge. you need to play the game, but not care about the rules, not play matched play, not use any form of points in your game. And you can't be a rare gem that just plays it like that, because you need a group of opponents that also play the game in this crazy way. I would say all those things happen as often as vegans pop up living in Siberia[for longer then 3 weeks of course].

[Wayniac]

Honestly, the point changes should have been released as a free download from warhammer community.  The rest of the book sure charge, but most people I wager are paying $35 (USD) for essentially what, 10 pages of point changes in the back?  If it had ALL the points, not just updates (like the General's Handbook 2017 did for AOS) then I could see it a bit more, but as it stands it's literally just another book you need to bring on top of everything else.

[Jolemai]

As this is now on general release, I'm closing it off. Please take any further discussion to the relevant Faction fora.

[Bryan Blaire]

...you will want to use the book. So it is a need, the same way you require to breath or eat or drink.

...

the prerequisites for someone to not need the book are huge.

Yeah. Definitely some odd thought here.

 

:facepalm:

[Mileposter]

Anyone who uses Battlescribe won't need to buy the book for the points values. Not suggesting that it's a full alternative, but the thought that "you must buy Chapter Approved" and "if you buy the book you are required to carry it everywhere" are aeguments with various holes.

[Shockmaster]

Anyone who uses Battlescribe won't need to buy the book for the points values. Not suggesting that it's a full alternative, but the thought that "you must buy Chapter Approved" and "if you buy the book you are required to carry it everywhere" are aeguments with various holes.

 

You don't even need Battlescribe as all the points changes if not already on the internet will be soon enough if you even do a basic level of searching(not meaning illegal downloading).

 

I won't be rushing to buy the book unless something in it really appeals but shock horror, I am using the points changes for my Death Guard this Wednesday, as is my opponent with his army who also does not own the book.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

well if you play a DG army or primaris, you kind of a have to get it to get better rules. Plus if someone plays at any larger even they will have to use the most updated stuff, so there is no going around it for them.

So you’re in agreement that it isn’t mandatory to play 40K at all, the need to purchase it is a player decision, regardless of their reasons or personal perceived “need”. I mean, if you have the rules and the Codexes necessary, you have full capability of playing the game without any use of the 2017 Chapter Approved at all - unless someone wants to be brave enough to say that what we’ve been playing since 8th Edition came out wasn’t 40K.

 

 

Literally nothing in life is mandatory. Everything has a caveat to it 

[Lexington]

Right, so it’s not mandatory - that is a false statement then. If you have conditions on need, then a single statement doesn’t hold true, therefore the single statement is false without those conditions.

 

Let’s all agree to not be misleading.

Maybe we can all agree not to be intentionally obtuse, too? The obvious context of every utterance of "mandatory" in this thread, previous to your post, was in reference to using Matched Play points. This play condition isn't technically mandated by the rules, but is one that is very clearly preferred to near-exclusivity by a sizable chunk of the player base - including, I'd wager, a plurality of the folks here on the B&C.

 

I don't think a single component of that definition was actually in question by a single participant in this thread, but now it's right there in black and white. Maybe now that it's out in the open, we can get back to the thread at hand rather than nickel-and-diming it into derailment via technicalities.

[Bryan Blaire]

Maybe we can all agree not to be intentionally obtuse, too? The obvious context of every utterance of "mandatory" in this thread, previous to your post, was in reference to using Matched Play points. This play condition isn't technically mandated by the rules, but is one that is very clearly preferred to near-exclusivity by a sizable chunk of the player base - including, I'd wager, a plurality of the folks here on the B&C.

 

I don't think a single component of that definition was actually in question by a single participant in this thread, but now it's right there in black and white. Maybe now that it's out in the open, we can get back to the thread at hand rather than nickel-and-diming it into derailment via technicalities.

Intentionally obtuse... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

It's not mandatory, even for Matched Play, period. It's only useful if you want to be a follower that must play by what GW's most recent output is, or you sincerely desire the additional material that is in the book. The game itself functions just fine without anything in the book itself - I've had a look, and there is nothing that so wildly alters how the game plays that it is a "must have" for you to play other people.

 

If I go right now to a store and talk with someone to arrange a game and ask "You want to play a points game without the CA2017?", they have every ability to say Yes or No. I know I'm not going to force it on anyone (although if they really want to look, I don't mind them browsing a copy and saying Yes, either) I play, it's not necessary. Tournaments can choose for themselves whether they want to require the book (although fair sports if they at least have a copy available to people to use themselves at the games), that's their call.

 

Come on Lexington, you've shown time and again you don't want to be bound by GW's latest stuff. Don't get caught up in it now.

[Schlitzaf]

The question of mandatory or not, I would consider ‘mandatory’ but for a good reason. The 6 new missions are such a vast improvement over 6 BRB Missions I could never seeing myself ever playing the rule book missions ever again.

 

Like you don’t need a fridge, you could use an ice box. But the degree of improvement a fridge has over an ice box makes it basically mandatory for modern life. I consider the 6 new Eternal War mission such solid improvement if in part they incorporate the best parts of Only War.

 

1) Objectives give Points at End of Turn not end of Game

2) No Kill Point Only Mission

3) Big Gun replacement checks for Characters instead of Heavy. And characters claiming has other benefits such if controlled 2+ Turns, EoT you get 2 Points instead of 1

4) Objectives are Dynanmic. One mission has T3/4 4 of 6 Objectives vanish. Each player choosing one. This replacing base defense

5) No Kill Point Only Mission

6) The Sack and Despoil Mission. End of turn you can despoil an objective if in enemy zone to claim D3 Points instead of getting one. This removes the objective from the game

7) Major v Minor objective Mission removes replaced with mission that has two objective, and each player has a base objective. Two central objective are worth Two, enemy base worth 4, your base worth One.

8) Return of Dawn of War Deployment for Mission 6. Save this time it is balanced. You seperate army into thirds by unit count. And Randomly Roll a D3 to determine which one you deploy. And you can deploy anywhere in your Deployment zone when your undeployed forces arrive. As long as they are 6” from table edge. Removing the issue DoW had with foot sloggers being functionally out of the game

9) No Kill Point Only Mission. That mission instead has 6 Objectives you use worth 1 at EOT in addition to Kill Points.

 

The new missions while some might argue 25 is too much, them + expansions like Apoc, Planet and so on. Make it worth. The missions however being such a fundamental and dramatic improvement over the original 6 Eternal War Missions make it ‘mandatory’.

[Bryan Blaire]

I'm going to bow out, because you folk seem to be intent on using a different definition or insisting on some connotative concept for mandatory, instead of what it actually means.

 

That said, I agree with Schlitzaf that the new missions and the expansions make the book worth the money and a good value to me, but if you only want it for the points values and/or the Land Raider customization stuff, I don't think you'll view it as a good value.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I just borrowed my stores copy for 2 minutes and went through my codex and used a pen to scratch out all the points that are irrelevant.  Makes things much easier and only requires me to have one book with any given army :-) 

 

While I do *personally* think that Gw should release an FAQ slip with the updated points, I also like the book format they have for chapter approved and the tiny boost to the 11 armies in it is nice, as well as all the extra content. 

 

Ill almost assuredly get myself a copy given that I also agree with Schlitzaf as well! Its not a bad book. 

[Damo1701]

Personally, I see no NEED for Chapter Approved.

 

I dont play in events. I play at a gaming club. I foresee no real issue with not using the book. Everybody there just wants to have fun. From the time I've been going, working together to find enjoyment for all has been fairly easy.

 

Sticking with the rules I have is fine for me. I already carry around 3/4 books, plus FAQs, and data cards. I'm not adding any further books to that list unless they are essential. This most certainly is not. Just like 7th's Death from the Sky.

 

Each one of us is responsible for how we react to that small voice inside us that screams "new Games Workshop release! Must buy it as fast as possible!"

 

We should also be aware, when encountering others, that they may not have any interest in the Chapter Approved book, it's intent, or it's content. As long as they are adhering to Wheaton's Law, what is it going to harm those who have brought it to use? Sure, propose missions, request the use of your custom Land Raider. But don't, please, try to assume you can force somebody to rewrite their list according to your parameters. Especially if they own their codex/index.

[Schlitzaf]

Damo, point questions aside if I showed up at your LGS, and asked for a 2000 Point game and brought out my Chapter Approved. Their are some changes in Matched play, such as the mission rolls, but let us ignore those for now. We are playing an Eternal War Mission, I rolled on the chart.

 

Would you have any issue playing with the new eternal war missions? Point changes, aside while I might grumble a bit if I played against someone running Razorspam using Vanilla Points, for casual games the new missions are much more important.

 

Because after seeing the new Eternal War Missions, I never want to touch the 6 BRB Missions ever again. Would you politely decline a game with me? Because you don’t own the book and haven’t had time to look at the new missions.

 

*I have had weirder things happen.

[Damo1701]

Damo, point questions aside if I showed up at your LGS, and asked for a 2000 Point game and brought out my Chapter Approved. Their are some changes in Matched play, such as the mission rolls, but let us ignore those for now. We are playing an Eternal War Mission, I rolled on the chart.

 

Would you have any issue playing with the new eternal war missions? Point changes, aside while I might grumble a bit if I played against someone running Razorspam using Vanilla Points, for casual games the new missions are much more important.

 

Because after seeing the new Eternal War Missions, I never want to touch the 6 BRB Missions ever again. Would you politely decline a game with me? Because you don’t own the book and haven’t had time to look at the new missions.

 

*I have had weirder things happen.

 

You want to play me at missions in Chapter Approved?  Sure!  Here's a copy of my list.  As you can see, I'm using the codex and FAQ points values, however, as you can see on page 2, I'm only running 2 razorbacks.  We still cool for a game?  Awesome, how do these new missions work?

 

Basically, I just want a fun experience.  If you aren't going to dictate to me where my points come from, I won't dictate where the missions come from.  I, personally, call that a compromise.

 

My list has run 2 Razorbacks since pretty much the start of the edition because they give speed to the troops they are carrying, and I couldn't squeeze a Storm Raven in instead.  

[Ishagu]

The new Eternal War missions are excellent indeed.

 

Chapter Approved is definitely advised for any gaming group imo, but that's not to say everyone in said group needs to own it.

[Schlitzaf]

Damo, if that is the case I’d be fine for a game! I might annoyedly grumble for like 10 seconds (in good fun) but I’d then show you my list say “well let’s start setting up the board shall we! Also I am running a custom unit, a Black Templar Crusader Squad on Bikes, adapting the original unit from C: Armageddon and the BT Biker Squad from C: Black Templar. Let the best brother with the best ZEAL win!”

 

Because you aren’t trying to actively game the System per say. You just don’t have Chapter Approved nor are you the the guy running 6 AssaultBacks. After the game I’d offer my Approved incase you wanted to modify the points by hand in your book. At the end of day, I am simply coming by for a game of Warhammer 40K with my friends.

 

And why ruin an otherwise good time with arguments over “proper point values”. Assuming you aren’t actively trying to game the system.

[Damo1701]

Damo, if that is the case I’d be fine for a game! I might annoyedly grumble for like 10 seconds (in good fun) but I’d then show you my list say “well let’s start setting up the board shall we! Also I am running a custom unit, a Black Templar Crusader Squad on Bikes, adapting the original unit from C: Armageddon and the BT Biker Squad from C: Black Templar. Let the best brother with the best ZEAL win!”

 

Because you aren’t trying to actively game the System per say. You just don’t have Chapter Approved nor are you the the guy running 6 AssaultBacks. After the game I’d offer my Approved incase you wanted to modify the points by hand in your book. At the end of day, I am simply coming by for a game of Warhammer 40K with my friends.

 

And why ruin an otherwise good time with arguments over “proper point values”. Assuming you aren’t actively trying to game the system.

This is what we need more of.

 

Accepting the other player, their decisions, and any offered reasoning behind things.

 

Sure, I'm not accepting the hike on two transports, but I'm also not attempting to use units that have lost points.

 

In a similar vein, if I was using my Primaris, I would continue using C:SM. Because that is fair and consistent. I'm not going to take advantage of points drops with one army, while ignoring increases with the other. Does that help you to see how I see it?

[Schlitzaf]

Yeah. Through I will eventually expect you to use Chapter Approved Points. As an aside through Damo. First month or so I will be fine. But after awhile I will kinda expect you too. Especially if as I suspect the mid year Point changes put these in FAQ

[the jeske]

I'm going to bow out, because you folk seem to be intent on using a different definition or insisting on some connotative concept for mandatory, instead of what it actually means.

 

That said, I agree with Schlitzaf that the new missions and the expansions make the book worth the money and a good value to me, but if you only want it for the points values and/or the Land Raider customization stuff, I don't think you'll view it as a good value.

well most GW books are not good value, codex are a very small upgrade on index in case of a lot of armies. If we go by that we could stop on the level of buying an index or even downloading the rules/making your own. The index is an update to costs, if it is not posted on a GW controled website for free and you want to use a unit that has changed, the sourse for rules is the index.

Now on a social level of course someone can force someone else to play, the same way someone who is higher on a local social ladder can say we don't play FW[or we do] this day/event etc But it does not change the rule.

 

People mention that nothing in life is mandatory, well on a technical level, maybe. But how long can someone decide to not breath or drink?

[Damo1701]

Yeah. Through I will eventually expect you to use Chapter Approved Points. As an aside through Damo. First month or so I will be fine. But after awhile I will kinda expect you too. Especially if as I suspect the mid year Point changes put these in FAQ

If points changes are released as an FAQ, then I'll print it off, swear an awful lot about cheese players, and look at what I need to do.

 

I'm just not going to encourage GW by buying a book, just for points changes. They get enough of that from edition changes/codex runs.

 

That being said, the way CA is being handled, I'm honestly looking at a 40k hiatus once again. All the non-GW FLGS's I've discovered in my general area have opened me to other systems that are generally more positive in their deployment and conduct than 40k and some of their players. But that's a different topic entirely.

 

Closing: Chapter Approved, won't buy it, will use missions if opponent requests. Points changes appear as FAQ... grumble grumble pen comes out.