Pre-IA questions

[Kyttie]

Before i start finalising my plans on my IA that i plan to write for my DIY chapter i have a few questions that would like your opinion on

 

 

The chapter i am creating, is a successor of the iron hands chapter (or red talons but same lineage regardless) that was part of the 4th founding. Their system is located towards the middle of the Ultima Segmentum. anything else needed i can answer.

 

 

Now my couple of questions for fluff stuff:

 

1) Could my chapter have worked closely with the Ordo Malleus over its time, completing assignments for them, and if so would they have usually operated on their own or would the help of the grey knights be involved if the threat was dire, and in the aftermath would the marines from my chapter be Mind-wiped?

 

2) Would it be plausible to have an 'Immortal Company' of astartes who are over 2000 years old (Heavy Heavy use of cybernetics allowing of course ) and if so do you reckon they would need some kind of memory management as i can imagine if you could live that long your brain would probably be filled well beyond capacity and would hinder you?

 

3) I was also toying around with an idea of an AI having been uploaded within the chapter neuroweb(?) (sort of the internet in their heads which they communicate with due to their large amount of cybernetic implants. Now i know alot of people would probably scream heresy but im planning on my chapter working SEVERELY closely with the Adeptus Mechanicus which have found something (They possibl think it is a direct link to the Machine spirit or something) but in fact it is an advanced AI from the Dark age of technology or whatever it was called

 

(Plus over the years my chapter has grown annoyed with imperium thinking that is inefficient and will not be able to win the war, and after bonding with the adeptus mechanicus over millenia will collect alien tech and return it to the forge in hopes it will better their war effort)

 

4) I havn't got a solid thought for my name of the chapter yet. i have some ideas, so if you like one above the others let me know, or if you can randomly think of a better name with the above chapter in mind then yeah, great

 

Fists Of Manus

War-Born

Iron Born

War Forged

Iron Reapers

Steel Paladins

Iron Revenants

Forge Fathers  

 

sorry if my wording isn't the best, its 6am here and i can't sleep.

 

thanks in advance for replies.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Kyttie

[Slave to Darkness]

War-Born has a nice ring to it, as does Iron-Born. Steel Paladins reminds me of a hair metal band or something along those lines

 

and 6am, take it your British?

Edited November 19, 2017 by Slave to Darkness

[Kyttie]

yeah steel paladins wasn't my top choice either :P and yes, british born and raised :P 

[Slave to Darkness]

Well I guess greetings are in order fellow Brit who cant sleep. :tu: 

 

As for your questions.. 

 

1) I dont see why your chapter couldn't work closely with the Ordo Malleus, they wouldnt have been the first chpter to do so. As for mindwiping, I would say that depends on a few factors, do they work with the Ordo Malleus or a certian Inquisitor that they have built up a 'bond' with? The Grey Knights and other Ordo forces have a lot to deal with, esp with the Imperium being split in two as it is now, maybe the Inquisitor(s) think they would be better off with their memorys intact as they have proven themselves time and time again and it is kinda hard to keep Daemons a secret anyway now with the whole warp rift thingymajig.

Also If you do give your force a 'chapter net' maybe your Chapter Master points out to the =][= that it would be hard to purge all memorys as 'data' regarding Daemonic incursions has already been shared and accessed by most of the chapter, and mindwiping a whole chapter to retrain is a waste of time and resources. Just because they work closely with the Ordo doesnt mean they need to get along. 

 

2) Seems legit to me, with Heavy augmentation I dont see why they cant live that long. As for memorys they could upload data to the 'chapter net' and self purge unimportant memorys. How do Ad Mech cope? I have read about brains in jars that they can swap about but I am not sure if that was a one off or if its more common than I thought. 

 

3) As I have already mentioned 'Chapter net' twice above I am totally behind the concept, the Ad Mech are a sneaky bunch (attacking the Soul Drinkers to steal a Relic of Dorn that they had no rights to at all, grrrrrrr), I say run with the idea. 

[Dantay VI]

Sounds like a plausible start, although the Ordo Xenos will be on your case if they find out about the alien tech...

[Conn Eremon]

Before i start finalising my plans on my IA that i plan to write for my DIY chapter i have a few questions that would like your opinion on

 

 

The chapter i am creating, is a successor of the iron hands chapter (or red talons but same lineage regardless) that was part of the 4th founding. Their system is located towards the middle of the Ultima Segmentum. anything else needed i can answer.

Welcome to the Bolter & Chainsword, and to the Liber. Looking over your questions, you’ve got an interesting start to the Chapter but I can already see that there will be multiple points of contention between a Chapter that behaves in this way and the rest of the Imperium. That doesn’t mean you’ll need to change anything to kowtow to the Imperial line, just that for every action comes a reaction and the reactions will be worth exploring.

 

1) Could my chapter have worked closely with the Ordo Malleus over its time, completing assignments for them, and if so would they have usually operated on their own or would the help of the grey knights be involved if the threat was dire, and in the aftermath would the marines from my chapter be Mind-wiped?

Chapters like the Red Hunters and Exorcists are known, or believed to be known, to have close ties with the Inquisition. These seem more like the rarity that proves the rule rather than invitation for further examples, in my mind. In addition, the Ordo Malleus doesn’t really exist as a stand-alone, monolithic entity. The Ordo Malleus is little more than similarly aligned Inquisitors.

 

Your Chapter could very easily have close ties with Ordo Malleus inquisitors, but it would begin to lack believability if you add too many or make the connection last too long. I’d think half a millennium, two or three generations of Inquisitor, would be the best fit myself.

 

But that begs the question: Why Ordo Malleus? Why not Ordo Xenos, where you can say that your Chapter has a long and storied involvement with the Deathwatch? Why not Ordo Hereticus, where another force, that you’re not even allowed to know exists, wouldn’t more readily provide the assistance?

 

Since the Chapter is messing about with xenotech, I’d say the Ordo Xenos would be the best fit. Puts them in close proximity to xenos and their artifacts, and provides ample room for some conflict between your Chapter and any Ordo Xenos element that suspect them.

 

2) Would it be plausible to have an 'Immortal Company' of astartes who are over 2000 years old (Heavy Heavy use of cybernetics allowing of course ) and if so do you reckon they would need some kind of memory management as i can imagine if you could live that long your brain would probably be filled well beyond capacity and would hinder you?

The Blood Angels gene-line is noted as being the most particularly long-lived of the gene-lines, and the most long-lived example we have of that is Dante, born 447.M40. I could see heavy use of cybernetics approaching this level, but not equaling or exceeding it. There have been exceptions, but adding further exceptions steals the point of them, I feel.

 

That said, I think this idea of yours can easily transition to being a cohort of dreadnoughts. Ancient Marines kept mechanically alive, their own memories eroding over time? That’s a dreadnought.

 

3) I was also toying around with an idea of an AI having been uploaded within the chapter neuroweb(?) (sort of the internet in their heads which they communicate with due to their large amount of cybernetic implants. Now i know alot of people would probably scream heresy but im planning on my chapter working SEVERELY closely with the Adeptus Mechanicus which have found something (They possibl think it is a direct link to the Machine spirit or something) but in fact it is an advanced AI from the Dark age of technology or whatever it was called

Well, it’d be the Adeptus Mechanicus that would be screaming heresy. The only thing separating a Techpriest working on AI and a Heretek is discovery. But really, you didn’t actually describe what makes it an AI, and what you described is already accomplished without an AI. The Adeptus Mechanicus itself has its own variation, what they call the noosphere I think. It was introduced in the Heresy series, but I believe it still exists as one of the ways in which orbital techmagos coordinate and communicate with planetary skitarii legions.

 

Why not just say that your close connection with the Mechanicus, a given among Iron Hand successors, adding the Chapter’s own technological work into the mix, has given them a Chapter-wide noosphere of their own?

 

Alternatively, the . . . Silver Skulls I think it was, have tried themselves to incorporate an intelligence greater than a machine-spirit, though in their example it was their ship itself. They did so by taking a failed recruit, one that passed all the tests but biologically could not finish the process, cutting him apart and wiring him in. His consciousness became the machine-spirit that ran the ship, the ship becoming an extension of his body and senses.

 

If you need an intelligence inside your Fraternet, that’s an avenue you can explore.

 

(Plus over the years my chapter has grown annoyed with imperium thinking that is inefficient and will not be able to win the war, and after bonding with the adeptus mechanicus over millenia will collect alien tech and return it to the forge in hopes it will better their war effort)

A Chapter that becomes increasingly disillusioned with the state of the Imperium, and more desperate to win at all costs, is a fun idea to explore. Due to the Mechanicus’s broad stance on xenotech, it being forbidden and grounds for execution or worse, it might be better not to bond with the ‘Adeptus Mechanicus’ over millennia, but with a particular forge world of your own creation.

 

It’s not unknown for Ordo Xenos inquisitors or certain techpriests to incorporate xenotech, most typically in the form of weapons. Unless you go overboard with the idea, your Chapter should be safe from reprisal.

 

That said, I’d think having the Chapter take that extra step into full radicalization would be the more interesting end to the story.

 

4) I havn't got a solid thought for my name of the chapter yet. i have some ideas, so if you like one above the others let me know, or if you can randomly think of a better name with the above chapter in mind then yeah, great

 

Fists Of Manus

War-Born

Iron Born

War Forged

Iron Reapers

Steel Paladins

Iron Revenants

Forge Fathers

 

sorry if my wording isn't the best, its 6am here and i can't sleep.

 

thanks in advance for replies.

I’d cast my vote for Warborn. It’s one of the pre-primarch nickname for the XIII Legion, and ever since FW wrote that I’ve been in love with it.

 

Ironborn, Warforged and Iron Revenants are also good names.

[Olis]

I would agree on the point Conn has made about a mini-noosphere for the Chapter, though this would, in my opinion, draw them much, much closer to the Mechanicus than the Inquisition. Not that you can't explore both angles through the history of the Chapter, mind. 

 

Oh, and welcome to the Liber, sister. Feel free to ask what you may, we're here to help.  

[Kyttie]

Thank you all for the replies and for some god suggestions, after having a night to sleep on it i decide on the name Warborn, which also seemed to be the hitter here lol :)

 

i also like the idea of working more with the Ordo Xenos with the ease of transitioning so to speak with various other elements within my chapter like Brainframe (not its actual name but all i can refer to it as at the moment until a better name takes place haha)

 

on the topic of the AI i might not of expanded on that at all and thats my bad....i was thinking of the chapter being in contact with something that they believe to be the Machine God fully....but in reality it could of been (all random thoughts here) an Ai created by the forgeworld because they are turning 'heretic' // something to do with the Xenos artifact that gives the chapter it Brainframe (maybe only activated when enough power/information/people were connected to it) or maybe its a lord of change/GD of Tzeentch that has been slowly gaining trust within the chapters heads as they have slowly came to resent/dislike the imperium....again all random on the spot ideas i might or might not use but feedback on wether one sounds better or more intriguing would be thankful.

 

And with the whole 'Immortal Company' concept, perhaps they could be backed up by an increased amounts of dreadnoughts, but would it still clash with the whole blood angels thing if the said Astartes member in the company was literally fully cybernetic (except for say the brain) and would that be even possible because of all the implants marines have? again just playing with ideas that i like and don't know how feasible they sound...if it is plausible though it would be cool as that would be the end goal for my chapters members, some yearn for command and being able to lead forces in battle. whereas some marines want to enter the ranks of the Immortals after proving himself multiple times...maybe offering himself for surgery operated by the forge world itself (a rare honor and thats why the immortals arent a full company)

 

 

as i have said though multiple times in this post i dont know if any of these ideas are usable or they are just so far fetched that its unbelievable (even on a 40k scale) 

 

again thanks for the replies in advance :) 

[Slave to Darkness]

No reason why it would clash with the Blood Angels, the BAngles are long lived 'Mortals' where your marines are more machine than mortal. Just look at Cawl, he was around for over 10000 years, whos to say how old members of the AD Mech are. 

[Slave to Darkness]

Just had a thought, the Custodes are ancient as well so there shouldnt be a problem with having pensioners in your force. 

[Beta galactosidase]

This seems like it hits the classic notes. It's a bit like the Imperium could ask for one order of space marines, please, and the Warborn would send a detachment just like any other chapter would, and for outside purposes they are just a chapter of space marines. However if someone actually talked to them, asked them about their personal life as it were, it would turn out that via some long and winding path they had come to truly distinctive and bizarre practices.

 

As for the noosphere if you wanted a somewhat archaic real world reference you could start with Cybersyn or a choice from these mechanical computers like the antikythera mechanism.

[Kyttie]

Sorry for the lack of replies had a bit of a spontaneous trip to amsterdam haha,

 

anyway errm again very WIP but ill copy the base of what i down here so you can all see what im working with a bit more in depth and then if you have any criticisms, ideas or whatever then i'd be glad to hear them :) 

 

 

 

Origins

-Iron Hands Gene-Seed- Cold, Calculating and unrelenting are some of the qualities that the chapter has shown

 

-4^th Founding Chapter – Chapter was created to retake systems that had fell into neglect from the Imperium following the 'War of the Beast'

 

Homeworld

 

Originally a feral world -covered mostly in ice plains. Inhabitants are cold and harsh much like the landscape

 

Fortress Monastery – Helforge, a passage leads to the monastery carved into the tallest mountain peak. The chapter vault located at the bottom of the spire is the most secure place on the planet with 10 Astartes always stood guard over the vault.

 

 

Beliefs

 

-Flesh is weak, Metal is pure – The chapter much like their predecessors are obssessed with the replacement of limbs in favour of cybernetic implants. The majority of members within this chapter are more than half mechanical at this point.

 

-Knowledge is Power – Due to their connection within the chapters brainframe (good name insert here) the members of the Warborn spend a lot of their lax time indulging in the knowledge of their ancestors.

 

-Distrust of the Imperium – Due to the supicious nature that fellow chapters and other members of the Imperium see the chapter and their extremely close alliance with the the Warborn have isolated within on themselves.

 

-Shut off from most other imperial branches

 

- Hatred for Heretics above all else – Due to the death of their chapter master during a chaos incursion within their home system, the Warborn will always go out of their way to pursue chaos marines and traitors in order to exterminate them.

 

Organization

-Codex Adherent- 10 Standard companies, with company command etc.

-Immortal Company – Reserved for members of the chapter that have served the chapter for two millennia.

 

Combat Doctrine

 

Mechanized assault -

 

Immovable defence force – When the chapter is fully prepared as a defense force there is not many things that are able to overwhelm them, with their tactical precision rivalling that of chapters descending from Dorn himself.

 

Purge the heretic with no exceptions – The chapter will fight till the last man if they learn of the presence of chaos forces where they are fighting as retreating in the face of the chaos is a sin punishable by death even in the highest ranks of the chapter.

 

Culture

 

Take pride in their modifications and like to show them off-

Unity amongst the chapter in body and mind-

 

 

Disposition

 

 

 

 

History

 

 

 

 

 

Relationships

 

Adeptus Mechanicus – The chapter is very closely bonded with the Adeptus Mechanicus, especially those of the Forge World Arion. The chapter would naturally place the lives of the Adeptus Mechanicus above those of fellow chapters and other members of the Imperium. The chapter has a lot of experimental weaponry due to this relationship.

 

 

 

 

Present Day

 

Primaris Marines-

[Phoebus]

EDIT: Gah, I completely missed Conn Eremon’s post... where he already covered, oh, about 90% of points.

 

Everything that follows carries with it a “In My Humble Opinion” header.

 

1) Could my chapter have worked closely with the Ordo Malleus over its time, completing assignments for them, and if so would they have usually operated on their own or would the help of the grey knights be involved if the threat was dire, and in the aftermath would the marines from my chapter be Mind-wiped?

Be careful here. Can a Chapter have ties with the Inquisition? Yes. Aside from the Grey Knights, we also know of the Exorcists and the Red Hunters.

 

On the other hand, remember that the Exorcists are Grey Knights Successors, while the provenance of the Red Hunters is unknown. In fact, it’s suspected that the Red Hunters were created at the behest of the Inquisition. Even so, they are subjected to mind-wiping protocols after witnessing things like “daemonic incursions.” Given all this, I think it’s a difficult proposition to sell a Chapter that has a “part time” affiliation with the Ordo Malleus, or is allowed to retain their memories.

 

2) Would it be plausible to have an 'Immortal Company' of astartes who are over 2000 years old (Heavy Heavy use of cybernetics allowing of course :P) and if so do you reckon they would need some kind of memory management as i can imagine if you could live that long your brain would probably be filled well beyond capacity and would hinder you?

Personally, I’d urge you not to go there. To begin with, longevity is kind of Dante’s thing, and you’re trumping him by five centuries. Dreadnoughts are the vehicle for that kind of functional immortality, and they’re doubly special among Iron Hands and their Successors, so why look elsewhere for that?

 

3) I was also toying around with an idea of an AI having been uploaded within the chapter neuroweb(?) (sort of the internet in their heads which they communicate with due to their large amount of cybernetic implants. Now i know alot of people would probably scream heresy but im planning on my chapter working SEVERELY closely with the Adeptus Mechanicus which have found something (They possibl think it is a direct link to the Machine spirit or something) but in fact it is an advanced AI from the Dark age of technology or whatever it was called

Regarding the internet bit, more recent Black Library fiction has done a good job of showcasing the technology that goes into Space Marine Power Armour. For a few years now, we’ve been seeing several examples of how individual Space Marines track real-time tactical data (their battle-brothers’ vital statistics, moving map overlays, environmental conditions, etc.), which essentially implies that an incredibly effective, very long-range (in some instances they communicate with orbiting warships) network already exists.

 

Artificial Intelligence, though? I honestly wouldn’t. “Abominable Intelligences” are the single greatest heresy that exists, so far as the Adeptus Mechanicus are concerned. Forget “working closely” with them. Any faction of the Adeptus Mechanicus working with A.I. are almost certainly hereteks. Unless you’re including this bit to signal that your Chapter is constantly one step from damnation in the Imperium’s eyes and/or enslavement to a malign intelligence, it won’t be received well. That’s... actually not a bad idea, especially if you combine it with a Cursed Founding origin story: a Chapter whose creation was overseen by a secretly rogue faction of hereteks who sought to “improve” Space Marines by creating a hive mind of sorts, except it has gradually gone horribly wrong. Now, there is an Abominable Intelligence stirring and it’s taking all of the Chapter’s willpower to keep it from waking.

 

4) I havn't got a solid thought for my name of the chapter yet. i have some ideas, so if you like one above the others let me know, or if you can randomly think of a better name with the above chapter in mind then yeah, great :P

Forge Father is an actual office within the Iron Hands, so I’d scratch that one. I’d recommend you think of a name that reflects their mission and ethos. Edited November 24, 2017 by Phoebus

[Conn Eremon]

on the topic of the AI i might not of expanded on that at all and thats my bad....i was thinking of the chapter being in contact with something that they believe to be the Machine God fully....but in reality it could of been (all random thoughts here) an Ai created by the forgeworld because they are turning 'heretic' // something to do with the Xenos artifact that gives the chapter it Brainframe (maybe only activated when enough power/information/people were connected to it) or maybe its a lord of change/GD of Tzeentch that has been slowly gaining trust within the chapters heads as they have slowly came to resent/dislike the imperium....again all random on the spot ideas i might or might not use but feedback on wether one sounds better or more intriguing would be thankful.

So, your Chapter, while working closely with an Ordo Xenos inquisitor, provides some piece of xenotech to a forge world that you have a relationship with. Later on, this forge world upgrades your gear with a network, that they perhaps neglect to inform you is an invention of sorts and more than a little tied to that artifact. This network provides a substantial boon, but hides a terrible intelligence that aims to twist the Chapter to its own ends, beginning with ostracizing it from its peers and allies.

 

Honestly, I like that. A lot may depend on the execution, but I think it's a cool idea. As Phoebus mentioned, normal Marine gear already provides a network that connects each brother on a planet and its orbit.

 

So here's a thought: Maybe that's all your network is, it's not different or more. It's exactly what your Chapter, and all other Chapters, already have and are used to. Perhaps this forge world is the Chapter's supplier, and ever since they've been provided the artifact the gear the Chapter has been receiving has been affected. But as more and more of the Chapter's network is connected to by affected gear, the more this intelligence affects the Chapter.

 

To be clear, when I say gear I'm specifically talking about the network gear, such as the technologies in their helms. Not like they're getting affected krak grenades or anything.

 

Personally, I'd say that keeping the intelligence just a hinted threat would be best. We can see its influence, but not the intelligence itself.

 

And with the whole 'Immortal Company' concept, perhaps they could be backed up by an increased amounts of dreadnoughts, but would it still clash with the whole blood angels thing if the said Astartes member in the company was literally fully cybernetic (except for say the brain) and would that be even possible because of all the implants marines have? again just playing with ideas that i like and don't know how feasible they sound...if it is plausible though it would be cool as that would be the end goal for my chapters members, some yearn for command and being able to lead forces in battle. whereas some marines want to enter the ranks of the Immortals after proving himself multiple times...maybe offering himself for surgery operated by the forge world itself (a rare honor and thats why the immortals arent a full company)

It'd make more sense if you just cut it in half. An Immortal Company consisting of ancient, near fully augmented battle-brothers ranging from six to ten centuries of age, supported by the even further venerated dreadnoughts.

 

Keeps the character of it, without making them overly special.

 

Now! You mention that the Immortals might be directly operated upon and augmented by the forge world. If you take my above idea on the network hiding an intelligence, perhaps these Immortals can be the most affected. The core around which this intelligence will dominate the Chapter, or a corruption the awakened Chapter must excise to survive. Personally, I'd set it up so that question isn't answered, build it up to that point and leave it hanging.