Baal Preditors in the Codex...

[neonmole]

Hi Guys,

 

Just thought I would share a thought I just had which I think would potentially make our old friend the Baal preditor pretty good once our codex drops.

 

First of all, I think it’s a relatively safe assumption that it will see a points decrease, at minimum to be in line with the cost of the predator in codex SM.

 

The more interesting piece though - I think it is quite to very likely that we will have the “killshot” stratagem. For those that don’t know, if you have 3 preditors in 6” of each other, they all get +1 to wound, and +1 dmg targeting monsters or vehicles. 1CP.

 

Now apply this to 3 flamer (or AC) Baal preds and maybe you have something interesting?

 

D6 S6 hits (+1 to wound) / -2AP / 3 dmg

2D6 S5 hits (+1 to wound) -1AP / 2 dmg

 

Now, obviously yo have 3 of these things.. that’s quite a scary amount of firepower.

 

In combination with something that would allow them to move quickly and shoot, or any other kind of buff really and I think this could be quite good. Plus the added benefit that you are going to find it very hard to lock them down in combat (sick over watch).

 

What do you think guys?

 

Just some musings...

Joe

[Brother Crimson]

Assault cannon and heavy bolters is a good weapon load out. The only problem is the base cost of the chassis. Even with Space Marine cost reduction (12pts) Razorbacks are a lot less expensive than predators.

 

Killshot will be a good stratagem with the high volume of shots if we get it but it is not guaranteed.

[sebs_evo7]

2d6 assault flamestorm cannons please

[durdle-durdle]

I would lose my mind in happiness if the Baal predator becomes fast attack again. That was a huge part of why I got involved in blood angels. The idea of 2 razorbacks, 3 Baal predators, and 3 vindicators + Dreadnoughts in pods as an army made me extremely happy in 6th. You can still do that, but it makes it much more difficult to fill out a batallion or whatever, and right now it would be kind of bad.. I sincerely hope that they change how the overcharged engines work though. I have never had the urge to advance my tank, so the slight boost doesn’t matter to me. I feel like they’ll probably just give it “shoot twice” to differentiate it from a Razorback, which while strong, isn’t especially interesting. I feel like the “bring 3 stratagem,” will probably be reroll 1’s to wound or possibly shred, which is good.

[Jolemai]

Bear in mind that assault cannons are expected to rise in points when Chapter Approved goes live.

[Xenith]

The idea of 2 razorbacks, 3 Baal predators, and 3 vindicators + Dreadnoughts in pods as an army made me extremely happy in 6th. You can still do that, but it makes it much more difficult to fill out a batallion or whatever, and right now it would be kind of bad..

 

Take the heavy support detachment or whatever it is. HQ libby dread in pod, 3x vindis, 3x baals, then you can take up to 6 other razorbacks. You only get +1 CP for it, but who cares.

 

Baal pred is in a weird place. Increasing the cost of assault cannons doesnt help things as the razor chassis is still cheaper, right?

 

The razorback trades 1 wound for a 42 pt cost reduction and gains 6 transport slots. If that's what we're going by, then the predator chassis needs to drop to about 60pts to make them decent choices, or the old AV11 vehicles need to drop to T6. Currently the toughness, wounds and armour are all over the place - a whirlwind, formerly 11/11/11 is now the same wounds, toughness and save as a formerly 13/11/11 predator. I think the 12pts drop in the new codex brings the cost of the predator to match the identically statted whirlwind, but it's still not ideal.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

With the increase in weapon costs from the assault cannon, I stand by needing at least a 25% discount on the Baal Predator Edited November 20, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[The Unseen]

It almost looks like to me the predator points make sense if it was T8.

You know, an actual battle tank, not a transport.

Then I wouldn't mind dropping 40 pts extra for the chassis.

[Panzer]

Keep in mind that you can't put Dreads in pods anymore.

[evildrcheese]

Not specifically related to the Baal Predator but i hope our Lucifier Pattern engines are represented by treating Heavy weapons as Assault Weapons when mounted on a vehicle. That would give us back the feel of our old fast vehicles and give us a much needed shooting buff. (As there's more to BA than just angry punching dudes)

 

EDC

[Panzer]

There's so much they could do with the Overcharged Engines. The current rule is crap tho.

[Quixus]

Keep in mind that you can't put Dreads in pods anymore.

What about the Lucius Dread Pod?

[Closet Skeleton]

It almost looks like to me the predator points make sense if it was T8.

You know, an actual battle tank, not a transport.

Then I wouldn't mind dropping 40 pts extra for the chassis.

 

T7 is an actual battle tank toughness, you're spoiled by Imperial rules if you think its normal to get T7 transports. Goliath Trucks were front armour 11 in 7th ed and are only T6 4+ now. Predators need something like a 2+ save, three extra wounds or maybe even T8 but its not like they aren't in the mid tier of vehicles.

[Spagunk]

I'd take one of those but not all of them. Anything to make them stand out a bit more.

 

Considering that predators have higher armor, they should be t8 but still its normal save value vs transports. Makes them harder to wound but still leaves them the same for everything else.

[Bremon]

 

 

It almost looks like to me the predator points make sense if it was T8.

You know, an actual battle tank, not a transport.

Then I wouldn't mind dropping 40 pts extra for the chassis.

T7 is an actual battle tank toughness, you're spoiled by Imperial rules if you think its normal to get T7 transports. Goliath Trucks were front armour 11 in 7th ed and are only T6 4+ now. Predators need something like a 2+ save, three extra wounds or maybe even T8 but its not like they aren't in the mid tier of vehicles.

This makes sense for a benchmark that was set 8 books ago. Now that more books have come out, tanks with more wounds, damage reduction, faction traits, and other special rules make SM tanks look pretty bad. Dreads are a good value comparatively.

 

Hoping for some positive changes; Baal Pred is my favourite imperial vehicle.

[Djangomatic82]

I'm pretty sure the Lucifer Pattern engines are going to provide an ability similar to IG's scout sentinels.
-Scout Vehicle: At the start of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, you can move  this unit up to 9". It cannot end this move within 9" of any enemy models.

Personally, it would be cool if this was also an equipment option for our Rhino's and Landraiders.

[Quixus]

Does red paint still exist for Orks? Lucifer engines could be our red paint (i.e. +x movement).

[Aothaine]

All of my Baal's are Tri-flamer. But my entire army is flamer focused so...  

 

But yes! I hope kill shot works with our Baal Preadators because that would be awesome!

 

The the Purge of Baal begin! ^_^

Edited November 22, 2017 by Aothaine