How to protect Pask?

[Withershadow]

Clearly plenty of people have put Pask to great use, so all these hypotheticals and mathhammer analysis amount to a lot of theoretical nonsense. To anyone interested in Pask, go ahead and try him out using some of the suggestions posted in this thread. Try him for several games without too many drastic changes to the list to account for variance. Even if you don't find a way to make him work for you, you will gain valuable experience on what works and doesn't work for your opponents when they try to deal with a large target with a multi-layer defense. This will make you a much better player overall than forever chasing after some mythical ultimate net list.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Most scenery GW sells doesn't block LoS under current rules.

[bigmic66]

Lol use another Russ for cover. Its really not that hard to keep one Russ in an army protected for one turn.

 

Have any of the critics even used him before?

[Feral_80]

If you believe that a LR can block los to another LR, you definitely seem the one who has never played a real game.

 

That is really *not* how line-of-sight works, sorry.

 

As for *real* big los-blocking terrain, apart the fact that it is relatively rare, these 'tactics' on how to use a TC also require said terrain to be exactly where you want it within your deployment zone, possibly to the back. Again, not something you readily and conveniently find on any table. Current balanced battlefield design practice usually suggests one big los-blocking element in the centre, but the rest is far from obvious.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Feral_80

[CoffeeGrunt]

I can keep a Russ in cover; piece of cake. Utterly denying any line of sight to the Russ from any vector is something else entirely.

 

Also remember that they don't have to kill it to neuter it. A Punisher Pask needs to be close, but if an opponent reduces it by merely 6 Wounds, it is slower and hits worse, meaning that getting in range becomes more difficult, and doing so with Grinding Advance is even more difficult.

 

Also as much as you hold back a Punisher Russ you're likely adding maneuvering distance for it to get within range.

[bigmic66]

The degrading stats seem like an advantage to a tc as they're still usable after taking hits. Maybe in AU's tournaments we have more than one los blocking piece. Plus hills, craters that the front Russ sits up on, baneblade class weapons etc.

 

Maybe I've just been lucky every tournament game I've played with pask.

I don't use pask in punisher BTW I run him with BC, plasma cannons and lascannon. Gives him reach by being backfield, reroll ones for not moving and pound them to dust for better shot rolls make him unbelievable at killing with the BC and overcharged plasma.

 

Putting him in a punishers a waste I think.

[FallenSoldiers]

One thing I haven’t seen mentiones... if you’re doing a narrative game (not matched play) Pask is only what, 1 PL more than a TC. (I’m guessing, don’t have Codex in front of me). That gets you all the toys he has for 1PL.

 

Plus I find if you’re going to field him, make it fun and fluffy. Give him a host of LRBTs all around him to order around. IMHO youd want pask and at least 1 TC (because what Knight Commander will be yelling at a private directly?). No a competitive mindset, but some people do like to play for fun and fluff.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Why would a tank commander be yelling at a private? That's not how tank combat and tank platoon coordination works at all.

[FallenSoldiers]

I was using hyperbole there...

 

It was more of a “I like to have layers to a command structure” when I’m playing a themed/fluffy game.

[iceman2160]

I use the Valhallan doctrine with my tanks and infantry. I typically screen my tanks with a mechanized infantry squad for anti-infantry charge support and the chimera to screen and provide mobile cover for the tank.

[NatBrannigan]

My Russ's have been pretty tough so far you know, but I don't play very competitively. I wonder if those competitive people are cramming anti-tank weapons into their lists so much that they struggle with relatively squishy units like, oh I don't know, Conscripts...?

 

If I take Pask and he gets killed by my opponents 15 Lascannons, I can enjoy the rest of the game as those same Lascannons try to stop my Infantry squads dominating the board. Hardly a way to keep Pask alive but it might explain the (in my opinion crazy) conscript hate?

[Vel'Cona]

If I take Pask and he gets killed by my opponents 15 Lascannons, I can enjoy the rest of the game as those same Lascannons try to stop my Infantry squads dominating the board. Hardly a way to keep Pask alive but it might explain the (in my opinion crazy) conscript hate?

 

It's about balancing armies really.  It's easy to play a meta-screw and stack super-heavies or 500 bodies on the board and take advantage of the opponent's inability to overcome the one-sided strategy such an army would present.  But when the thinking player brings a balanced list to the table and can focus enough to overcome an army's overspecialization, it all comes apart.  The Pask argument is really more of pure cost-effectiveness analysis with a layering of influence-based warfare, ie. making an obvious target for the opponent.  Using entirely generic units is an easy way to confound an opponent's target priority since he won't have a "shiny" choice, but it's also pretty boring to play IMHO.

 

Again, the crux of my argument is that IG is strong enough we can afford a bit of tomfoolery in terms of pure efficiency, especially for local/friendly play.

[ImperialSquishiness]

I run a 3 detachment (2 battalion, 1 spearhead) army. I have pask and run him in an Exterminator. I like autocannons. S7 will wound most anything on a 4+ or better. Does 2 damage a pop. I think it's a very underrated ynk for Pask.

Deployment wise, my LRBTs are always the last down. That way you force your opponent to spread their AT firepower. If they only have a few heavy hitting AT units, you can usually deploy away from their LOS and shell with Basilisk/Manticore.

I also take a scout sentinel, set it up in front of my screening infantry units and take advantage of it's pre battle 9" move to push back any deep striking assault squads out of charge range.

[Withershadow]

It really isn’t. Mathematically it is by far one of the worst options he has, especially now that GW realized autocannons were overpriced but didn’t extend the discount to the Hydra or Exterminator.

[ImperialSquishiness]

In the games I've played of 8th since coming back to the hobby, Pask survives longer and dishes out more damage in an Exterminator compared to the Demolisher or LRBT that I could put him in.

Maths may have the Exterminator as one of the worst options, however mathematical probability and real life are 2 different entities.

[Withershadow]

We are getting really into the weeds now, though. "Survives longer", assuming because people drop him from target priority due to the crappy main gun and thus he actually manages  to scrape together decent damage over the course of the game through raw repetition?

 

I mean we're talking about a gun that has one less strength, one less AP, does 2 damage instead of D3, has way shorter range, has basically the same fire rate... and costs more.

[crimsondave]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I'm still confused about whether a TC can order himself or not.  I have been told adamantly both that they can and they can't.  It was addressed in the Index but not the Codex.  Can anyone enlighten me?  How it being played in Tournaments?

[Withershadow]

Yes. As of the Codex, they can order themselves and other tank commanders.

[crimsondave]

Yes. As of the Codex, they can order themselves and other tank commanders.

 

Thank you