Character duels: Who beats whom (Mathammer)

[SixOfOne]

Maybe Angelus will gift Sevatar with a nice 2+ save or an ap 2 weapon. One can only hope.

 

Sevatar doesn't really need an ap2 weapon. With either precog or ATfM he is actually one of the top fighters on this list. He will only lose to Sigismund, Krole, Haar (wins w. precog) and The Nemean Reaver (wins. w precog). Giving him an AP2 weapon makes him into a pseudo-Sigismund clone and doesn't really fit the archetype that I suspect FW were going for when it comes to Sevatar. He is actually a highly effective duellist, but he requires a bit more set up than Sigismund.

[b1soul]

I don't think he needs that. Precog makes him very nasty.

 

The results above ignore that.

[SixOfOne]

Autek Mor
 
 I had forgotten to add preferred enemy to the wounds caused by Mor. Against T4 infantry he has a 97% chance to wound. Preferred enemy is now properly taken into account in this post.
 
Autek Mor vs The Nemean Reaver:
 
The Nemean Reaver strikes first with 3 attacks, hitting 1.98 times, wounding 0.99 times and causing 0.495 wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor strikes back with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.2825 (0.567) times and causing 0.6413 (0.2835) wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor wins in 6 rounds.
 
Autek Mor vs Eidolon:
 
Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.
 
Eidolon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times, causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.
 
Mor wins in the 3rd round. (Mor is T5)
 
Autek Mor vs Erasmus Golg:
 
Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.
 
Golg strikes back with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times, causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor wins in 3 rounds.
 
Autek Mor vs Kyr Vahlen:
 
Kyr Vahlen strikes first with 4(5) attacks, hitting 2 (0.5) times, wounding 1 (0.415) times, causing 0.5 (0.2075) wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor wins in the 4th round as the servo arm will ID Vahlen.
 
Autek Mor vs Sigismund:
 
Sigismund strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 3.088 times, wounding 2.038 times, causing 1.52856 wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.
 
Sigismund wins in the 1st round of combat before Autek Mor strikes.
 
Autek Mor vs Pollux:
 
Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.5602 (0.187) wounds after saves.
 
Pollux strikes back with 3 attacks, hitting 1.75 times, wounding 1.4525 times, causing 0.72625 wounds after saves.
 
Thanks to being S5 Pollux will ID Mor on round 2.
 
Autek Mor vs Sevatar:
 
Sevatar strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 3.3 times, wounding 1.65 (0.561 of these rend) times and causing 0.2805 (0.2805 rends) wounds after saves. 
 
Autek Mor strikes back with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.4525 (0.468) times and causing 0.72625 (0.234) wounds after saves.
 
Sevatar just wins in round 4 thanks to ID.
 
Autek Mor vs Khârn:
 
Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.32 times, causing 0.66 wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor wins in 3 rounds.
 
Autek Mor vs Typhon:
 
Both characters strike simultaneously. Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.
 
Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.25 times, causing 0.625 wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor wins in the 3rd round of combat.
 
Autek Mor vs Abaddon:
 
Mor strikes first with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.58) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causes 0.8487 (0.2813) wounds after saves. 
 
Abbadon strikes back with 4 attacks, he hits 3.3 times, wounds 2.739 times and causes 1.3695 wounds after saves.  
 
Mor wins in the 3rd round of combat.

 

Autek Mor vs Loken:

 

Loken strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2 times, wounding 1 time and causing 0.5 wounds after saves.

 

Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.

 

Autek Mor wins easily in 4 rounds (Counting Loken's 'back from the dead' rule as giving him an additional wound)

 

Autek Mor vs Hol Beloth:

 

Autek Mor strikes first with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.

 

Hol Beloth strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times, causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Hol Beloth wins due to his wound ignoring ability.

 

Autek Mor vs Nomus Rhy'tan:

 

Nomus (round 1) strikes first with 3 attacks, hitting 2.25 times, wounding 1.485 times and causing 0.7425 wounds after saves.

 

Nomus (round 2 onwards) strikes first with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 0.99 times and causing 0.495 wounds after saves.

 

Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.

 

Autek Mor wins in the 3rd round of combat.

 

Autek Mor vs Dynat:

 

Autek Mor strikes first with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.

 

Dynat strikes back with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times and causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.

 

Autek Mor wins in the 4th round of combat.

 

Autek Mor vs Hvarl:

 

Hvarl strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.33 times, wounding 1.7103 times, causing 0.85517 wounds after saves.

 

Autek Mor strikes back with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.

 

Hvarl wins in the 4th round of combat as he strikes before Mor.

 

Autek Mor vs Endryd Haar:

 

Autek Mor strikes first with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.2825 (0.567) times and causing 0.6413 (0.2835) wounds after saves.

 

Haar (Round 1) strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.425 times, causing 1.2125 wounds after saves.

 

Haar (Round 2 onwards) strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times, causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Haar wins on the 3rd round of combat. (Both characters are T5.)

 

Autek Mor vs Jenetia Krole:

 

Krole strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.33 times (0.7689 ID), wounding 1.165 (0.7689 ID) times, causing 0.5825 (0.3845 ID) wounds after saves.

 

Autek Mor strikes back with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.

 

Krole wins in the 3rd round.

 

TL:DR- Autek 'assault moon' Mor is a highly effective challenge. Thanks to him being S and T 5 and preferred enemy he has a 97% chance to wound most targets as well as being generally immune to ID from double S weapons. Avoid Sigismund, Pollux, Sevatar, Endryd Haar and Krole though. 

Edited December 20, 2017 by SixOfOne

[b1soul]

I'm assuming Krole completely shuts down Sev's precog?

 

EDIT: I think Khârn really needs a buff. Rules don't seem to do justice to Khârn portrayed at end of Betrayer

Edited November 28, 2017 by b1soul

[bluntblade]

Love that Pollux beats Golg, very appropriate.

Kinda feel like Khârn might be a little underpowered now but I guess that the Heresy is supposed to be more about characters who don’t make it to 40K.

Or that they were feeling their way a bit in Book 1. I've seen Loken, Tarvitz and Abaddon deemed underwhelming.

[SixOfOne]

I'm assuming Krole completely shuts down Sev's precog?

 

EDIT: I think Khârn really needs a buff. Rules don't seem to do justice to Khârn portrayed at end of Betrayer

 

Yes, Sevatar has basically no chance of getting Precog off when fighting Krole. He only generates 1 dice, manifests powers on a 6+ and has to take a Perils test at -2. It's basically horrible for Sev.

 

Khârn is an odd case. He has WS8 when fighting in a challenge, but he really needs the charge. He has the potential for 8 attacks on the charge re-rolling 1s. That is really nasty, but won't ever come into play here. He's not actually a brilliant challenger. He can hold his own, but is much better eating infantry (Especially 2+ infantry). Basically he's like Corax. Very high damage potential, but not in a vacuum.

 

 

Love that Pollux beats Golg, very appropriate.

Kinda feel like Khârn might be a little underpowered now but I guess that the Heresy is supposed to be more about characters who don’t make it to 40K.

Or that they were feeling their way a bit in Book 1. I've seen Loken, Tarvitz and Abaddon deemed underwhelming.

 

 

Tarvitz is a bad character ruleswise. He doesn't have any defined role and is only useful when playing against traitor EC. He's very much a 'story game' character. Abaddon is actually pretty good, but isn't brilliant and can be very disappointing. Loken is slightly weird. Like Khârn, character duels aren't where he shines (unless he gets lucky with his PB). He's I6 and is much better at killing infantry and then sweeping them.  

[SixOfOne]

Khârn

 

Khârn vs The Nemean Reaver:

 

Both Characters strike simultaneously. The Nemean Reaver has 3 attacks, hitting 1.83 times, wounding 1.413 times and causing 0.7065 wounds after saves.

 

Khârn attacks 4 times, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.32 times, causing 0.66 wounds after saves. 

 

The Nemean Reaver wins, just in terms of damage. However, both characters will kill each other simultaneously in the 5th round of combat.

 

Khârn vs Eidolon:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.74 times and causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Eidolon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times, causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Eidolon wins in the first round due to ID. Otherwise it's a close fight damage wise.

 

Khârn vs Erasmus Golg:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Golg strikes back with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times, causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.

 

Golg wins as he will ID Khârn in round 2.

 

Khârn vs Kyr Vahlen:

 

Both characters strike simultaneously. Khârn strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Kyr Vahlen strikes with 4(5) attacks, hitting 2 (0.5) times, wounding 1.32 (0.415) times, causing 0.66 (0.2075) wounds after saves.

 

Khârn just (by 0.0037 wounds) outdamages Vahlen, but Vahlen has an additional wound and will win in the 4th round of combat.

 

Khârn vs Sigismund:

 

Both characters attack simultaneously. Sigismund strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.33 times, wounding 1.9339 times and causing 1.4504 wounds after saves.

 

Khârn strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Khârn loses in the first round of combat.

 

Khârn vs Pollux:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.57499 wounds after saves.

 

Pollux strikes back with 3 attacks, hitting 1.75 times, wounding 1.4525 times, causing 0.72625 wounds after saves.

 

Pollux wins in 2 rounds of combat.

 

Khârn vs Sevatar:

 

Sevatar strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 (0.425 rends) times and causing 0.2805 (0.2125 rends) wounds after saves 

 

Khârn strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Sevatar just wins in round 4 thanks to ID and I6.

 

Khârn vs Autek Mor:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.32 times, causing 0.66 wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor wins in 3 rounds.

 

Khârn vs Typhon:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Khârn wins in the 4th round of combat.

 

Khârn vs Abaddon:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times and causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon wins in the 1st round due to ID.

 

Khârn vs Loken:

 

Loken strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2 times, wounding 1.32 times and causing 0.66 wounds after saves.

 

Khârn strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

This is tricky. If you count Loken's 'back from the dead' ability as giving him an additional wound then Loken wins in round 5 as he strikes before Khârn. If not, then Khârn wins in round 4.

 

Khârn vs Hol Beloth:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Hol Beloth strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times and causing 1.035 wounds after saves.

 

Hol Beloth wins in the first round due to ID.

 

Khârn vs Nomus Rhy'tan:

 

Both characters strike simultaneously. Khârn strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Nomus (Round 1) strikes with 3 attacks, hitting 2.25 times, wounding 1.8675 times and causing 0.93375 wounds after saves.

 

Nomus strikes first with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times, causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.

 

Khârn wins in the 4th round of combat.

 

Khârn vs Dynat:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Dynat strikes back with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times, causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.

 

Dynat wins in the 2nd round due to ID.

 

Khârn vs Hvarl:

 

Both characters strike simultaneously. Khârn strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Hvarl strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.33 times, wounding 2.2067 times, causing 1.10338 wounds after saves.

 

Hvarl wins in 3 rounds.

 

Khârn vs Endryd Haar:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.32 times, causing 0.66 wounds after saves.

 

Haar (Round 1) strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.425 times, causing 1.2125 wounds after saves.

 

Haar (Round 2 onwards) strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times, causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Haar wins easily in the first round.

 

Khârn vs Jenetia Krole:

 

Krole strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.33 times (0.7689 ID), wounding 1.79923 (0.7689 ID) times, causing 0.89962 (0.3845 ID) wounds after saves.

 

Khârn strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 2.1912 times, causing 1.0956 wounds after saves.

 

Krole wins in the 3rd round.

 

TL:DR- Khârn doesn't perform well here. However, he is much deadlier on the charge with a potential 8 (must be intentional, surely) attacks re-rolling 1s. He also has the highest WS out of anyone here whilst fighting in a challenge (WS8). Overall, though he's probably more of an infantry slayer than a character killer as rampage is situational.

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by SixOfOne

[SixOfOne]

Typhon:

 

Typhon vs The Nemean Reaver:

 

The Nemean Reaver attacks first with 3 attacks, hitting 2.31 times, wounding 1.7787 times and causing 0.889 wounds after saves.

 

Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.25 times and causing 0.625 wounds after saves.

 

The Nemean Reaver wins in 4 rounds.

 

Typhon vs Eidolon:

 

Typhon strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Eidolon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times, causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Eidolon wins in the 1st round due to ID.

 

Typhon vs Erasmus Golg:

 

Typhon strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Golg strikes back with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times, causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.

 

Golg wins as he will ID Typhon in round 2.

 

Typhon vs Kyr Vahlen:

 

Kyr Vahlen strikes first with 4(5) attacks, hitting 2 (0.5) times, wounding 1.32 (0.415) times, causing 0.66 (0.2075) wounds after saves.

 

Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Kyr Vahlen wins in the 5th round as he strikes before Typhon.

 

Typhon vs Sigismund:

 

Sigismund strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 3.088 times, wounding 2.5637 times and causing 1.9227 wounds after saves.

 

Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Sigismund wins before Typhon can strike back in round 1.

 

Typhon vs Pollux:

 

Typhon strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.5445 wounds after saves.

 

Pollux strikes back with 3 attacks, hitting 1.75 times, wounding 1.4525 times, causing 0.72625 wounds after saves.

 

Pollux wins in round 2.

 

Typhon vs Sevatar:

 

Sevatar strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 3.3 times, wounding 2.178 (0.561 of these rend) times and causing 0.37026 (0.2805 rends) wounds after saves. 

 

Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Sevatar just wins in round 4 thanks to ID and I6.

 

Typhon vs Autek Mor:

 

Both characters strike simultaneously. Autek Mor strikes with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.585) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causing 0.84875 (0.2835) wounds after saves.
 
Typhon strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.25 times, causing 0.625 wounds after saves.
 
Autek Mor wins in the 3rd round of combat.

 

Typhon vs Khârn:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Khârn wins in the 4th round of combat.

 

Typhon vs Abaddon:

 

Typhon strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, he hits 3.3 times, wounds 2.739 times and causes 1.3695 wounds after saves.  

 

Abaddon wins in the 1st round of combat.

 

Typhon vs Loken:

 

Loken strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2 times, wounding 1.32 times and causing 0.66 wounds after saves.

 

Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

In the same way as Khârn, if you count Loken's 'back from the dead' ability as giving him an additional wound then Loken wins in round 5 as he strikes before Typhon. If not, then Typhon wins in round 4.

 

Typhon vs Hol Beloth:

 

Typhon strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Hol Beloth strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times and causing 1.035 wounds after saves.

 

Hol Beloth wins in the first round due to ID.

 

Typhon vs Nomus Rhy'tan:

 

Nomus (Round 1) strikes first with 3 attacks, hitting 2.25 times, wounding 1.8675 times and causing 0.93375 wounds after saves.

 

Nomus strikes first with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times, causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.

 

Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Typhon just wins in 4 rounds.

 

Typhon vs Dynat:

 

Typhon strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Dynat strikes back with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times, causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.

 

Dynat wins in the 2nd round due to ID.

 

Typhon vs Hvarl:

 

Hvarl strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.33 times, wounding 2.2067 times, causing 1.10338 wounds after saves.

 

Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Hvarl wins in 3 rounds.

 

Typhon vs Endryd Haar:

 

Typhon strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.25 times, causing 0.625 wounds after saves.

 

Haar (Round 1) strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.425 times, causing 1.2125 wounds after saves.

 

Haar (Round 2 onwards) strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times, causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Haar wins easily in the first round.

 

Typhon vs Jenetia Krole:

 

Krole (Round 1) strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 3 times (1.0 ID), wounding 2.6334 (1.0 ID) times, causing 1.3167 (0.5 ID) wounds after saves.

 

Krole (Round 2 onwards) strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.33 times (0.7689 ID), wounding 1.7103 (0.7689 ID) times, causing 0.85515 (0.3845 ID) wounds after saves.

 

Typhon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times and causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Krole wins in the 3rd round.

 

I think I was calculating Krole's murderous strike wrong up to this point. As it triggers on 1/3 of the hits, then logically 1/3 of the wounds will cause ID. However, that makes the rule functionally the same as 'rolls to wound of 5 or 6 cause ID) which doesn't make much sense. In addition, there's a strong argument for calculating it the way that I was originally doing. As I've not yet gotten to Krole then I will leave it the way that I was originally doing it for now. If anyone has an opinion on the matter then it would be much appreciated. I personally am torn between the two methods. In game it would obviously work with you needing to roll to wound separately for those hits that cause ID. This would point towards the new method, which I am coming down in favour of. 

 

TL:DR- Typhon is not a challenger. He loses almost every match up here and gets very little benefit from his scythe in 1 vs 1 match ups. Let him kill infantry instead.

Edited November 29, 2017 by SixOfOne

[Corswain]

Wow. It really seems like the main villains from 40K are all pretty tame in 30K. Maybe that was deliberate.

[bluntblade]

Out of whack with their presentation in 30K fluff though.

[SixOfOne]

Wow. It really seems like the main villains from 40K are all pretty tame in 30K. Maybe that was deliberate.

 

It's probably intentional. If you think about it then for most of them 30k is how they get to where they are in 40k, not them in their prime (Abaddon) or peak of their power (Ahriman, Khârn, Typhon). It would be stupid if they were as powerful in 30k as they are in 40k. The really powerful characters such as Sigismund and Sevatar start at their peak. Khârn in 30k is still strong, just not as strong. 30k was more balanced than 40k 7e anyway so there's no way each character will be stronger than each other and they each have their drawbacks. Sigismund is one of the nastiest duellists in the whole of 40k, but he's 230 points and brings nothing to the army unless you kill the enemies Warlord which won't happen till turn 3 at the earliest. The best overall character on the list is probably Krole. She's cheap, an excellent duellist and brings some solid buffs. The main thing really is that no character on this list is redundant. Sure, some are better than others but they all bring something relatively unique.

 

Out of whack with their presentation in 30K fluff though.

 

Not necessarily. Take Khârn for example. In Betrayer he chews through line troops, but when he comes up against a Praetor level character he struggles. That is perfectly represented by his rules. Abaddon is a nasty fighter (WS7), but he doesn't have the blessing of the Chaos Gods yet and unless I'm mistaken his name is never really mentioned in-universe as being among the best fighters out of all the Legions. Loken, for all intents and purposes, is just a good company commander. He's not a brilliant fighter (loses to Erebus) but he is fast (Punches Lucius), so generic Praetor with I6. Even Sevatar is faithful to his portrayal (minus the artificer armour-seriously, why doesn't he have that). The only time we really see him serious is when he has to fight his way through a DA ship to reach Curze and even then it's not shown. The rest of the time he doesn't really need to try that much and also fights dirty, so ID but mainly relying on rending is a good fit for that, as is ATfM. (Unfortunately these things don't really help him in a vacuum. Also, never put him against Krole. He'll hate you for eternity). The only thing that's really out of place is just how good powerfists are due to the lack of EW. Paragon blade and thunder hammer is the way to go for generic Praetors.

[bluntblade]

When Sevatar and Sigisumd are mentioned as fearsome combatants, Abaddon is usually brought up as well,

[SixOfOne]

When Sevatar and Sigisumd are mentioned as fearsome combatants, Abaddon is usually brought up as well,

 

You are correct. It's been a while since I've read the majority of HH series and had forgotten. The only time I could remember is in Savage Weapons and Abaddon is indeed mentioned. To be fair though out of the HH characters, what appears to be the mark of the best fighters seems to be WS7 which Abaddon does have.

[b1soul]

Actually, Khârn absolutely humiliated Erebus in a deathmatch (before the latter escaped via portal). Erebus is praetor-level and noted to be up there with the best of the legions.

[SixOfOne]

Actually, Khârn absolutely humiliated Erebus in a deathmatch (before the latter escaped via portal). Erebus is praetor-level and noted to be up there with the best of the legions.

 

I wasn't referring to his fight with Erebus. I know he humiliated Erebus 'Get up' is one of the more memorable moments in the HH series. I was actually referring to his fight against Legatus Orfeo. Khârn would have won in all likelihood, but it certainly isn't the easiest battle he'd faced. My point is that generally Khârn can be at least halted by sufficiently skilled opponents. He's only really shown as a murder machine when up against regular troops.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think the best way to do these simulations is for each match do it twice - once for each opponent getting the first turn charge . Very interesting.

 

Abbadon is a joke to me - must swing last with fist to get through 2+ AS and is not Eternal Warrior.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Black Orange

[b1soul]

 

Actually, Khârn absolutely humiliated Erebus in a deathmatch (before the latter escaped via portal). Erebus is praetor-level and noted to be up there with the best of the legions.

 

I wasn't referring to his fight with Erebus. I know he humiliated Erebus 'Get up' is one of the more memorable moments in the HH series. I was actually referring to his fight against Legatus Orfeo. Khârn would have won in all likelihood, but it certainly isn't the easiest battle he'd faced. My point is that generally Khârn can be at least halted by sufficiently skilled opponents. He's only really shown as a murder machine when up against regular troops.

I know you weren't, just pointing out he's a fantastically formidable killing machine against Erebus, a top-tier fighter.

 

Perhaps knowledge of Argel Tal's murder somehow boosts Khârn to a higher level.

 

BUT...there's also Khârn's loss to Loken, so it's not very consistent.

Edited November 30, 2017 by b1soul

[bluntblade]

Khârn's fight with Loken wasn't really a duel, mind. Edited November 30, 2017 by bluntblade

[Corswain]

FW has said that the Primarchs aren’t necessarily balanced how we would expect because their rules represent them at that moment, ie. when that particular Black Book is set.

I’m referring to the “Russ in his prime” comments, to be clear.

 

It makes sense that the rest of the characters follow he same logic, so Khârn (represented in book 2) may not be as good as he becomes by the Shadow Crusade (book 5, I think), after he’s had a few years experience killing Space Marines.

[b1soul]

Khârn fought Loken 1 on 1 blade to blade...so it was a duel IMO

 

 

He was also souped up on the Nails. So this was the equivalent of Khârn with WS8 and extra attacks.

Edited November 30, 2017 by b1soul

[SixOfOne]

FW has said that the Primarchs aren’t necessarily balanced how we would expect because their rules represent them at that moment, ie. when that particular Black Book is set.

I’m referring to the “Russ in his prime” comments, to be clear.

 

It makes sense that the rest of the characters follow he same logic, so Khârn (represented in book 2) may not be as good as he becomes by the Shadow Crusade (book 5, I think), after he’s had a few years experience killing Space Marines.

 

That's entirely true. I do expect Khârn and Typhon to get updated rules in one of the later black books. We also know that the Primarchs stats (WS etc) are more dependent on what wargear and rules they have (Why Perturabo is WS8 for example). So it's likely that this is also applied to all the other characters as well. However, I doubt they'll get updated rules until the black book after Angelus at the earliest. I could see that black book focussing on the White Scars hit-and-run attacks against the traitor forces, and the updated rules for traitors to represent them becoming more corrupted.

[Corswain]

My only issue with that is that you will have 2 (or more) different profiles for the same character, so you and your opponent are going to have to be careful not to mix things up.

Daemon Primarchs are easy, if represented by a model but if someone hasn’t been Daemonized, then it’s an unnecessary complication.

 

In any case, I’m enjoying the thread and some of the results have really surprised me - keep it up! :)

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea was kind of confused both in this thread and in the other one that everyone threw sevetar under the bus for being easy to kill....without remembering precog. The only reason he gets to be a psycher is to have that power, which is in part responsible for how good he is in the fluff.

 

The 75% pass rate on the invul alone makes him superior defensively to most in a world where everyone is rocking ap2 weapons

[b1soul]

Precog is what elevates Sev to cream of the crop level, yeah

[SixOfOne]

Abaddon

 

Abaddon vs The Nemean Reaver:

 

The Nemean Reaver strikes first with 3 attacks, hitting 1.83 times, wounding 1.413 times and causing 0.7065 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.66 times, wounding 2.2078 times and causing 1.1039 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon wins.

 

Abaddon vs Eidolon:

 

Both characters strike simultaneously. Eidolon strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times, causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 3.3 times, wounding 2.739 times and causing 1.3695 wounds after saves.

 

Both characters kill each other in 1 round via ID. Eidolon will obviously win though if he manages to charge.

 

Abaddon vs Erasmus Golg:

 

Both characters strike simultaneously. Golg strikes with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times, causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 3.3 times, wounding 2.739 times and causing 1.3695 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon wins easily in the 1st round.

 

Abaddon vs Kyr Vahlen:

 

Kyr Vahlen strikes first with 4(5) attacks, hitting 2 (0.5) times, wounding 1.32 (0.415) times, causing 0.66 (0.2075) wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 3.3 times, wounding 2.739 times and causing 1.3695 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon wins in 1 round.

 

Abaddon vs Sigismund:

 

Sigismund strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.33 times, wounding 1.9339 times and causing 1.4504 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times and causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Sigismund kills Abaddon before Abaddon strikes back.

 

Abaddon vs Pollux:

 

Both characters strike simultaneously. Pollux strikes with 3 attacks, hitting 1.75 times, wounding 1.4525 times, causing 0.72625 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 3.3 times, wounding 2.739 times and causing 0.90387 wounds after saves.

 

They will both kill each other simultaneously in round 2.

 

Abaddon vs Sevatar:

 

Sevatar strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 (0.425 rends) times and causing 0.2805 (0.2125 rends) wounds after saves 

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times and causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon wins in the first round. (Because Abaddon is WS7, Sev cannot win this one with just precog)

 

Abaddon vs Autek Mor:

 

Mor strikes first with 3 (4) attacks, hitting 1.75 (0.58) times, wounding 1.6975 (0.567) times and causes 0.8487 (0.2813) wounds after saves. 

 
Abbadon strikes back with 4 attacks, he hits 3.3 times, wounds 2.739 times and causes 1.3695 wounds after saves.  
 
Mor wins in the 3rd round of combat.

 

Abaddon vs Khârn:

 

Khârn strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.64 times, wounding 1.7424 times, causing 0.8712 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times and causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon wins in the 1st round due to ID.

 

Abaddon vs Typhon:

 

Typhon strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 1.65 times and causing 0.825 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, he hits 3.3 times, wounds 2.739 times and causes 1.3695 wounds after saves.  

 

Abaddon wins in the 1st round of combat.

 

Abaddon vs Loken:

 

Loken strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2 times, wounding 1.32 times and causing 0.66 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, he hits 3.3 times, wounds 2.739 times and causes 1.3695 wounds after saves.  

 

Abaddon wins easily in 1(2) rounds.

 

Abaddon vs Hol Beloth:

 

Both characters strike simultaneously. Abaddon strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 3.3 times, wounding 2.739 times and causing 1.3695 wounds after saves.

 

Hol Beloth strikes back with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times and causing 1.035 wounds after saves.

 

Hol Beloth wins this due to his ability to ignore the first wound he takes. If not then both characters kill each other in round 1.

 

Abaddon vs Nomus Rhy'tan:

 

Nomus (Round 1) strikes first with 3 attacks, hitting 2.25 times, wounding 1.8675 times and causing 0.93375 wounds after saves.

 

Nomus strikes first with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times, causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, he hits 3.3 times, wounds 2.739 times and causes 1.3695 wounds after saves.  

 

Abaddon wins in round 3.

 

Abaddon vs Dynat:

 

Both characters strike simultaneously. Abaddon strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 3.3 times, wounding 2.739 times and causing 1.3695 wounds after saves.

 

Dynat strikes with 3 attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.245 times, causing 0.6225 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon wins in round 1.

 

Abaddon vs Hvarl:

 

Hvarl strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.33 times, wounding 2.2067 times, causing 1.10338 wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, he hits 3.3 times, wounds 2.739 times and causes 1.3695 wounds after saves.  

 

Abaddon wins in round 1.

 

Abaddon vs Endryd Haar:

 

Both characters strike simultaneously. Abaddon strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 3.3 times, wounding 2.739 times and causing 1.3695 wounds after saves.

 

Haar (Round 1) strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.425 times, causing 1.2125 wounds after saves.

 

Haar (Round 2 onwards) strikes with 4 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, wounding 2.075 times, causing 1.0375 wounds after saves.

 

Haar wins easily in round 1. Abaddon can't ID Haar as he is T5.

 

Abaddon vs Krole:

 

Krole strikes first with 4 attacks, hitting 2.33 times (0.7689 ID), wounding 1.79923 (0.7689 ID) times, causing 0.89962 (0.3845 ID) wounds after saves.

 

Abaddon strikes back with 4 attacks, he hits 3.3 times, wounds 2.739 times and causes 1.3695 wounds after saves.  

 

Krole wins in round 3 before Abaddon strikes due to ID.

 

TL:DR- Yes, Abaddon isn't as good as he is in 40k, but as I've argued above that isn't the point. Regardless, Abaddon is still a highly effective challenger  able to put out more damage than most characters on the list. If there's a buff that he needs then it's EW and that's basically it. If you give Abaddon EW then he's one of the scariest characters on this list to fight in a duel.

Edited December 4, 2017 by SixOfOne