In a Tough Spot without Codex: Magnus time?

[Prot]

So even with using CSM point fixes for units that we share with them, it does feel like Codex creep is a real thing and I'm sure we agree Chapter Approved can't come fast enough.

 

I'm looking at facing off against some tough opponents this week including (possibly) Eldar, Tyranids, and Astra. (possibly even AdMech)

 

With this in mind I'm thinking of pulling out Magnus again. I've left him out of my games for quite a while. Honestly, as Codexes started getting released I really started to question the validity of him in a Thousand Sons list.

 

Personally I like Magnus, always have, but there's nothing in the Thousand Sons that I don't actually like (except the disk/daemon rule still burns me). Anyway assuming I am not using Tzeentch beyond a sprinkling of perhaps... horrors? Would it actually help or hurt me?

 

But I thought I'd ask what you guys think. Do you believe that adding Magnus to a (primarily) Thousand Sons army actually makes it compete on the level with the armies I just mentioned?

[Zodd1888]

So far withour going first, or solid LOS blocking terrain to protect Magnus from 1st turn erasure, I've found he's not super viable.

 

He lacks true resilience and requires a significant amount of support to survive. For what he brings I don't think he pays it back in high levels of competition the same way Mortarion does/can. Even looking beyond defense, his offense is rather weak compared to alternatives in point value. His bonuses as a good Psyker and reroll 1's on hit/save does not warrant the price tag compared to similar cost options.

 

I'm sure we'll see some cool things come with our dex, but even that is starting to seem further and further away.

[Raven1]

I like the model but i have a few issues. He is a good psyker but can get focused fired due to his wounds. He is good in close combat but in a list that's not optimized to do it.

 

Edit: i realize im not being constructive. My idea for a list would unclude Magnus, 2 demon princes with wings, 2 maulerfiends, and a bunch of tzaangors in rhinos.

 

And horrors in the back field.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Raven1

[Archaeinox]

You know I have avoided Magnus for almost a year now but the other day someone said they would buy me Magnus if I painted a demon prince for them. So I did, and he picked up Magnus last night for me. He's almost painted. Wings are galaxy themed.

 

I just don't think I can compete with the codex players and their hellblaster/admech nutso stuff unless I run him. I tested a Scarab Occult list and borrowed a buddy's Magnus the other day and it was pretty nuts. Instead of tossing Magnus up ASAP he stuck near the scarabs that dropped in. They were hard to shift and the damage output was crazy. I also had Ahriman and an 8man unit of Rubrics with Warpflamers in a Rhino and 2 predators. 

I don't think it's a very friendly list for a new player, though. I will mostly stick to my battalion with Ahriman and 4 exalted sorcerers running around on foot supported by the 2 preds and a unit of scarabs.

 

With Magnus I feel like I actually have a chance and can make it to turn 6. this isn't really possible against many of my opponents unless I beg them to tone it down. His weakness is being focused down fo' sho'

Edited November 23, 2017 by Archaeinox

[Raven1]

How many SO Terminators did you run?

[Sonoftherubric21]

Absolutely Prot; Given that you have said in the past your meta is more........ serious? I suppose you could say? 

Magnus would anchor a decent list, take changeling, give Magnus weaver of fates.  -1 to hit, 3++ invul re-rolling 1's, save a command re-roll for 2's. have Magnus steamroll whatever threatens you most.  

In my semi-competitive meta I do fine, but Astra and Admech still give me a VERY hard time so its something to keep in mind. Magnus tends to even the odds in that regard, though I *HATE* crutching him and I would only run that build I mentioned if the opponent was a WAAC or a tournament player or if the meta was a tad more competitive around here. 

 

I would assume that Chapter Approved will help immensely with these issues I also imagine scarab occult might get a points drop for the sorcerer sargent the way Rubric ones did as well.  I still think rubrics are pretty great for their points but you need access to the chaos strategems which is *another* tax we have to pay to even break even.  Hope that is fixed soon. 

 

[Zodd1888]

I have a heavy horde meta so maybe I need to rethink things for Magnus to work in that.

[Prot]

 i realize im not being constructive. My idea for a list would unclude Magnus, 2 demon princes with wings, 2 maulerfiends, and a bunch of tzaangors in rhinos.

 

And horrors in the back field.

 

So Magnus + 2 DP's is the way to go? I haven't done this. I've used one DP, but not two as I'm always struggling for numbers.

 

 

 

 I tested a Scarab Occult list and borrowed a buddy's Magnus the other day and it was pretty nuts. Instead of tossing Magnus up ASAP he stuck near the scarabs that dropped in. They were hard to shift and the damage output was crazy. I also had Ahriman and an 8man unit of Rubrics with Warpflamers in a Rhino and 2 predators. 

I don't think it's a very friendly list for a new player, though. I will mostly stick to my battalion with Ahriman and 4 exalted sorcerers running around on foot supported by the 2 preds and a unit of scarabs.

 

 

 

Yea we've had many a debate about Magnus, me usually being 'pro' and you usually being 'con' Magnus. So this shocks me to read. lol

 

So what am I missing here... you thought it was very good to hold Magnus back with Scarab Occult (1 squad of 10?) and how did he create a survivable list by doing so?

 

 

Absolutely Prot; Given that you have said in the past your meta is more........ serious? I suppose you could say? 

 

Magnus would anchor a decent list, take changeling, give Magnus weaver of fates.  -1 to hit, 3++ invul re-rolling 1's, save a command re-roll for 2's. have Magnus steamroll whatever threatens you most.  

 

In my semi-competitive meta I do fine, but Astra and Admech still give me a VERY hard time so its something to keep in mind. Magnus tends to even the odds in that regard, though I *HATE* crutching him and I would only run that build I mentioned if the opponent was a WAAC or a tournament player or if the meta was a tad more competitive around here. 

 

 

 

Yes my meta can be tough, but keep in mind I play in 2-3 groups. My GW store ranges from extreme ITC / no holds barred to new players, so I always adjust my list accordingly. 

 

But yes Astra is here, lots of las/Russ', deep striking melta/plas, and Nids have a strong showing, Eldar, etc are in my local playing group.

 

So what's weird about this to me is you guys are saying he's getting you through games, or allowing you to compete. I took him out because of... 18 lascannon shots a turn and spam. I felt if I didn't go first he was dead, and even though we play on very good terrain dense tables, he's nearly impossible to hide as per 8th, he's really almost never in cover.

 

I don't have a lot of Tzeentch options. There's one guy at my store that always uses him with 2 giant birds... Magnus, LoC, and Fate Weaver. He spams Brimstones, and Changeling, so the army is actually Tzeentch with Magnus (that is to say there is no Thousand Sons key word in his army... he got rid of his Thousand Sons element entirely).

 

It's not that I hate Tzeentch, but to me they are.... they help... the Robin to Thousand Sons' Batman. :)

 

Plus I don't have anything Tzeentch except: one chariot thing, 20 Brimstones, 10 pinks, 20 blues, 3 flamers. That's it.

 

Granted I could still get matched up against something 'mid' ranged and feel very guilty so I'd like to make the core of the list something I can gauge per opponent.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Thats entirely fair prot.  It really is a thing I gauge per opponent, if I look at someones list and see a complete and total steam-rolling coming (like its obvious they are prepping for a tourney) I will ask to adjust my list to competitive standard.  

If its obviously something more chill I dont pick any bones about it. the nice thing about spells; you dont "have" to do fateweaver + Changeling if the person turns out to be a more chill player.  

 

Generally I haven't had an issue with him dieing first turn. 18 las cannons (to be fair) if we are going by the standard of 25 points per cannon is around 450 points, thats *alot* of points in las cannons.   Usually he may die, but for me its always perhaps 4th sometimes maybe 5th, couple times on third. Never in round 1 or 2. 

 

[Realgone]

I'm fairly new with Magnus only 4 games so far but with 3 wins. With weaver of faith he dies mostly on turn 3 and in that time he can do what he need to. Last night was against index genestealer and won quite easily, exploding tank left and right.

 

That said, maybe the meta at my FLG is not that high. :)

[Raven1]

My idea with Magnus and 2 DP is either is going to put hurt on the opponent and you cab caat and or summon with all 3 models and the DP aura will effect the Tzaangors to boot.

 

I haven't run it yet just theory right now.

[Zodd1888]

I've ran a similar build. It was pretty effective but my Magnus got melted by LOS ignoring shots.

 

That said, if he did make it into CC it would have been a face roll for me. Tzaangors and a DP are very potent, and pretty worth it for buffing if you're running big blocks of goats.