Blight Hauler or not Blight hauler that is the question

[angrom]

Hey,

 

So the new easy build blight hauler kit will be out soon.

And it is quite cheap (3 of them seem a little over 1 plagueburst kit).

 

Now beside of their cuteness, are they worth compared to our other support options?

Here is a comparison, so what do you think is the best strategically / or by effectiveness.

 

Hellforged leviathan: 2 bombard = 339  for 2D3 shots str 9 -5   5 damage on vehicules and 2 heavy flamers  hit on 2
14 W, T8, sv2+

 

2 pagueburst crwaler: with entropy cannon = 304   for 2D6  str8 -2 D3 damage and 4 shot str 8  -4  D6 damage   hit on 4

24 W, T8, sv3+

 

3 Hauler: = 426  3 shot  str 8  -2 D6 damage and 3 shot  str8  -4  D6 damage  hit on 3 as long as they are 3

24 W, T7, sv3+

But support cover effect with a big +1 cover bubble

 

So as cheap as the kit might be I wonder if 3 Hauler are worth.

A lot of units or power now can ignore cover save

and 430 pts for only 6 shots seems a bit low.
It look like their main advantage is the super fast movement speed but then you loose your support effect on other units if you go scooting too far.

 

What do you think about them?

[Marshal Loss]

I'm not convinced they're very powerful and have a feeling that the points are better put into other units, but I'll be buying 3 anyway and actively trying them in games with plasma/blight launcher spamming units in order to more accurately gauge their effectiveness in my local meta. Luckily the models are so cheap (and adorable) I can afford to do so without much wallet-guilt

[Cleon]

I'm not going to dismiss the usefulness of the Frag missiles considering how many foot guard swarms and tides of Gaunts need thinning out in my local area.

My little Death Guard army (started as a modelling project from box set spares) is just the Dark Imperium box, the Hellbrute and cultists left over from Dark Vengeance and topped up with a first strike set, so anything that adds the ability to add some long range firepower on the cheap works for me.

[Plaguecaster]

I use them as support vehicles for my plague marine squads (been using count as so far) I take one for each plague marine squad and have them advance escorting the plague squad. Sometimes it can be a hassle keeping the squad within range but having an extra missile launcher for long range fire or the close range multi melta can be quite nice. I also find the Plague marines survive a lot longer with a blighthauler nearby as more people view it as more of a threat focusing on it over the PMs. Doesn't need to be powerful as I'm still taking 3 of the FW dreads in my force who can do that anyway, the Blighthaulers are more of an awesome looking unit that can be quite resilient plus they are adorable :) Edited November 25, 2017 by Plaguecaster

[Ishagu]

Imo they are highly resilient and competitive support units :-) Edited November 25, 2017 by Ishagu

[Marshal Loss]

Imo they are highly resilient and competitive support units :-)

 

Competitive they are not. Resilient - well yes, this is the Death Guard after all, what a shock...

 

At the end of the day you're borderline forced to take 3 in order to boost their accuracy, which costs a substantial chunk of points for not a lot of firepower. They have excellent speed, which is unfortunately hampered by their role as infantry guarders. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, as you can clump a lot of models up and advance at speed with a Blightbringer, but at that point you're building your army around a single strategy and a terrain heavy board is going to make movement very difficult.

 

They're good, but not anywhere near as good as you suggest. Their range synergises with Plague Marines well but requires a lot of investment and an army built around them to really thrive, where many of our other good units can slip into lists without having to worry too much about list-tailoring.

 

OP's topic was about how they compare to our support options. I'd say they beat the expensive FW dreadnought options but fall short compared to Plagueburst Crawlers.

[Gaerolth]

 

Imo they are highly resilient and competitive support units :-)

 

Competitive they are not. Resilient - well yes, this is the Death Guard after all, what a shock...

 

At the end of the day you're borderline forced to take 3 in order to boost their accuracy, which costs a substantial chunk of points for not a lot of firepower. They have excellent speed, which is unfortunately hampered by their role as infantry guarders. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, as you can clump a lot of models up and advance at speed with a Blightbringer, but at that point you're building your army around a single strategy and a terrain heavy board is going to make movement very difficult.

 

They're good, but not anywhere near as good as you suggest. Their range synergises with Plague Marines well but requires a lot of investment and an army built around them to really thrive, where many of our other good units can slip into lists without having to worry too much about list-tailoring.

 

OP's topic was about how they compare to our support options. I'd say they beat the expensive FW dreadnought options but fall short compared to Plagueburst Crawlers.

 

Not to mention I unfortunately have to point this out. If the price drops are to be believed then we're looking at plagueburst crawlers costing 146. That's nearly the same cost as the mephytic blight haulers. There's no reason to field even more Plagueburst crawlers. Heck, if you want anti-infantry just give them plaguespitters. More anti-tank? entropy cannons. The Blighthaulers suffer from the lack of options.

[bozo69pd]

I was excited for them, but will probably just spam more pus spitter blight drones.

[Ishagu]

I disagree with a notion of them being weak. It's not all about offensive power. They are tough, fast, have limited cc capabilities, can tie units up and have bonuses to army survivability for units around them.

 

I wouldn't necessarily be concerned with running 3 of them for the +1 bs.

[Marshal Loss]

Stop jumping to conclusions. Nobody called them weak, and nobody here is purely evaluating them in terms of offensive firepower. Their defensive benefits come at a cost - a detriment to their own maneuverability because they are forced to clump around units. And if not taking them in a unit of 3, they lose their accuracy advantage in comparison to other choices, which adds a further detriment.

 

They are not weak, but they need to be in an army built around them, while other choices can slot in far more easily. Thus far, playtesting has not shown them to be anywhere near as powerful as you have theorised.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[Ishagu]

Well you specifically said they are not competitive. What's the opposite of competitive?

 

I've never said they are an optimum unit in any situation. I'm simply looking at a unit with comparative cost to a basic Dreadnought that has similar shooting, better mobility and resilience.

[Marshal Loss]

You think that not competitive = weak..? Yeah, no. That is not what anybody here was saying, least of all me. Competitive = competitive environment. I think in a tournament environment they are far from the optimal choice because of the detriments I listed. They force you to play and build in a particular way. Simple. Stop jumping to conclusions. OP posted a topic comparing to other units, which I factored into my evaluation. I don't think they're a bad unit at all.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[Gaerolth]

I disagree with a notion of them being weak. It's not all about offensive power. They are tough, fast, have limited cc capabilities, can tie units up and have bonuses to army survivability for units around them.

 

I wouldn't necessarily be concerned with running 3 of them for the +1 bs.

Here's the problem as I mentioned above. Would you choose a mephytic blight hauler over a Plagueburst Crawler? If the price drops are to be believed they're going to cost about the same. It's just.. a plagueburst crawler feels like the better choice every time.

[Ishagu]

The price drop does throw a spanner in, yes.

Ultimately you might be right. Plagueburts and Bloat Drones are probably the preferred units now, however a poxwalker horde with Typhus is definitely more resilient with the Blight Haulers and not dependant on terrain.

[bozo69pd]

I disagree with a notion of them being weak. It's not all about offensive power. They are tough, fast, have limited cc capabilities, can tie units up and have bonuses to army survivability for units around them.

 

I wouldn't necessarily be concerned with running 3 of them for the +1 bs.

Correct. However when I play DG I never really say "Wow I really need more durability here to win this." Usually I say "Darn I wish these guys finished off this unit!"

[Marshal Loss]

The price drop does throw a spanner in, yes.

Ultimately you might be right. Plagueburts and Bloat Drones are probably the preferred units now, however a poxwalker horde with Typhus is definitely more resilient with the Blight Haulers and not dependant on terrain.

 

Once again, try to read more closely. I did not say they were dependent on terrain; I said they were hampered by terrain heavy boards, and they are. And while yes, obviously they are going to boost the resilience of infantry nearby, although that also fits into the mono-builds I referred to above, poxwalker hordes aren't even the best choice to go with them, let alone a footslogging poxwalker horde with Typhus, who slows them down even more. Blight-haulers likely work best with plague marines.

 

Evaluating units in a vacuum gives a warped perspective. As bozo said, our entire army is tough.

 

They're better than dreadnoughts but fall short of crawlers and drones.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[CMDR_Welles]

I'll be getting one as it is a unique model. If they ever release a multipart kit (I think they will eventually) like the Bloat Drones, then I'll get another one or two.

 

I love the little Fart Kart

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Are Crawlers that good tho? Templates arent what they were and that only does d6 hits per shot...

Yes they are hard to kill but i think the blight hawlers are much better force multipliers

[Evil Eye]

I don't care if they're pre-8th edition Pyrovore levels of awful. They're the cutest little blight bugs ever and I want a million of them.

[Plaguecaster]

With the Point drops across DG I can easily get a 3rd Blight Hauler into my list they seem to do fine for me but yeah Plague crawlers or the likes are probably better but most of my army is solely for including models I like for fun so have plenty of FW models I like like Deredero and a couple Contemptors so a few of the adorable little bugs zooming around the dreads is pretty cool plus I gave up trying to be competitive long ago

[TURBULENCE]

I plan to run at least one in smaller games as support for my plasma plague marines, might take a full three when I scale up now that my list will have some unexpected points to spare. Like many others have said I think it's an amazing looking model, and will use it regardless of how well it plays. I think it and the crawler are two very different beasts, however. Crawler is either a sit back and shoot unit, or an advance and draw fire unit. The hauler is infantry support through and through

[DuskRaider]

My end goal is to field a Plague Marine / Poxwalker heavy footslogging force (with a Blightwing detachment eventually) so Blight Haulers will definitely come in handy both for the mobile cover and the added firepower. Although when I mentioned the idea to my Iron Warriors playing friend, he kind of laughed at the idea of cover... 

[Wayniac]

IMHO two important things to remember is that the Blight-hauler:

1. Does not have a degrading profile, while staying fairly resilient.  Once the PBC starts taking damage, you're hitting on 5+.
2. Ignores the penalty for moving and firing its heavy weapons, while the PBC hits on 5+ if you move it, and 6+ once it takes damage; the Blight-hauler is always hitting on 4+ (3+ if you have the Tri-Lobe)

I think they fill different roles, my main question is whether or not the Blight-hauler does what it's advertised as (i.e. "fill the role that Havocs or Obliterators might in other Traitor Legions").  It certainly has anti-tank capabilities with the multi-melta and the missile launchers, but the PBC can also have entropy cannons that are essentially lascannons, plus the mortar which does have the tasty No-LOS-Required benefit.

[CMDR_Welles]

IMHO two important things to remember is that the Blight-hauler:

• Does not have a degrading profile, while staying fairly resilient.  Once the PBC starts taking damage, you're hitting on 5+.
• Ignores the penalty for moving and firing its heavy weapons, while the PBC hits on 5+ if you move it, and 6+ once it takes damage; the Blight-hauler is always hitting on 4+ (3+ if you have the Tri-Lobe)

I think they fill different roles, my main question is whether or not the Blight-hauler does what it's advertised as (i.e. "fill the role that Havocs or Obliterators might in other Traitor Legions").  It certainly has anti-tank capabilities with the multi-melta and the missile launchers, but the PBC can also have entropy cannons that are essentially lascannons, plus the mortar which does have the tasty No-LOS-Required benefit.

 

I got the feeling that both the Bloat Drone and the Hauler were meant as Dreadnought/Helbrute replacers. Just my feeling from the release.

[Ishagu]

Grav Bombard Leviathan went up 30 points in CA.