Tartaros & Cataphractii: Use? Worth?

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Hail brethren,

 

So with the first bit of good news that BA are getting access to these bad boys i would like to know how you all plan on using them and if they have a worth in a Blood Angels army. Or do you think we are getting more of the same as far as what we currently have as options.

 

-DR

[deathspectersgt7]

I will .They will look good as Blood Drinkers.

[the jeske]

Termintors to be "good" in 8th, require two things A being cheap B some ground breaking synergy or rule. Chaos termintors can have 10 dudes with combi weapons shot twice. That is an ok thing, and it has synergy with a warp time push. Catahpracts or Tartaros have nothing like that, so from a user persective they will see as much play as normal termintors do.

[JamesI]

I almost never use terminators in my Blood Angels anyway, so I doubt this changes anything. 

[Charlo]

Cataphractii look the absolute business in red with LC.

 

Topic is a little premature with the codex coming, but I can see them being rather useful. 4++ is tough and re-rolls to wound even better!

[Pendent]

I still like the standard (Indomitus?) pattern armor best because of the teleport homer. That free redeploy makes for some incredibly clutch plays. With the points adjustment for power fists it's going to be like 180-190 pts for a squad of 5 with storm bolters, which is honestly some pretty good value for a squad of heavy infantry. Teleport them onto an objective in some ruins and you have a firebase your opponent is going to have to dedicate a lot of firepower to removing and that you can redeploy if things get too hot for them. Lose half the squad to an Ork charge? You can simply pull them out of combat and put them on the other side of the table. Cataphractii terminators are pretty much stuck in place after deployment and I really don't see much of a use for Tartaros.

 

 

I'll likely pass them over for Inceptors but I can certainly see a use. I will say I'm excited about the idea of being able to take a Captain in Cataphractii armor because that will be an incredibly tough model to deal with and can be deployed pretty aggressively as a result.

[Indefragable]

Cataphractii with LC’s are superior to other patterns in pretty much every way, except movement...but if you’re concerned about movement...then one has to wonder why you’re using terminators at all.

 

Tartaros I don’t get. Besides the look, I just don’t really understand these fellas’ purpose. Enlighten me please.

 

Indomnitus/dog face/“classic” Termies can get TH/SS, thus making them some of the most resilient models in the game.

 

I’d love for our rules and strategems to make them worthwhile (they did specifically link to Archangels Orbital Intervention Force..), but it will be tricky to do that. Our specialty tends to be speed and maneuverability. Termies can at times be hard to fit into that. Also, compare to SW, Deathwing, and Deathwatch that can all mix n’ match shooty and stabby models in a single squad*. I am excited, but am curious how to make them truly worthwhile regardless of their fashion choice.

 

*my personal favorite is 5x Deathwatch Termie with 3x heavy weapons and 2x stormshields. Fearless 2+3++ dakka box, anyone?

[Pendent]

I generally think of terminators more as heavy tac marines than as dedicated assault troops, mostly because I would really hope that our unique assault units are going to be significantly stronger in combat than a generic squad that we share with the vanilla marines- TH/SS notwithstanding because it would be really hard for them to be bad with that durability and damage output. They're just insanely expensive.

[Charlo]

Tartaros I don’t get. Besides the look, I just don’t really understand these fellas’ purpose. Enlighten me please.

• Unique weapon options: Reaper Autocannon, Plasma Blaster, Grenade Harnesses & Volkite
• 6" move instead of 5"

Treat them as slightly more shooty/ speedy Indomitus.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Cataphractii with LC’s are superior to other patterns in pretty much every way, except movement...but if you’re concerned about movement...then one has to wonder why you’re using terminators at all.

 

Tartaros I don’t get. Besides the look, I just don’t really understand these fellas’ purpose. Enlighten me please.

 

Indomnitus/dog face/“classic” Termies can get TH/SS, thus making them some of the most resilient models in the game.

 

I’d love for our rules and strategems to make them worthwhile (they did specifically link to Archangels Orbital Intervention Force..), but it will be tricky to do that. Our specialty tends to be speed and maneuverability. Termies can at times be hard to fit into that. Also, compare to SW, Deathwing, and Deathwatch that can all mix n’ match shooty and stabby models in a single squad*. I am excited, but am curious how to make them truly worthwhile regardless of their fashion choice.

 

*my personal favorite is 5x Deathwatch Termie with 3x heavy weapons and 2x stormshields. Fearless 2+3++ dakka box, anyone?

 

I've had my b utt kicked by Cataphractii so I can say do not underestimate them. 2 wounds on a 4++ does matter much more than 5++ (indomitus), and with them armed with Lightning claws, you have a tough to shift unit that blends troops and has a decent chance against elites.

 

So I'll say if you are deepstriking TH/SS terminators in the first place, Cataphractii can do the same function better against hordes and basic troops. Reserve TH/SS for big monsters and vehicles.

 

tartaros, yeah, I'm still confused as to their use. Might be better in a Land Raider or Raven since they can move and deploy further, and have a relatively good range loadout.

[Indefragable]

 

 

Tartaros I don’t get. Besides the look, I just don’t really understand these fellas’ purpose. Enlighten me please.

• Unique weapon options: Reaper Autocannon, Plasma Blaster, Grenade Harnesses & Volkite
• 6" move instead of 5"

Treat them as slightly more shooty/ speedy Indomitus.

Right. That’s why I scratch my head: “speedier” terminators is a big of an oxymoron.

 

As for the weapon options you list, I don’t see the value they bring justifying giving up what the Cataphractii or Indominatus bring instead. In 7th the grenade harnesses could at least let you attack at initiative while charging through terrain (remember that PITA rule?).

 

Again, this is not to be a put down or impinge anyone who loves them. I just don’t get Tartaros.

 

It is cool that at least anyone who likes the looks better and “officially” play them now, so that’s a net boon for sure.

[swordofmandulis]

if you deepstrike cataphractii and fail to get them in the most they will be is a nuisance. 4" move and half advance distance pretty much means your enemy can comfortably move that juicy unit you planned to charge out of range and you are stuck in the middle of nowhere going the slowest out of almost any unit in the game.

 

not disputing they look boss, and out of a vehicle, 3" disembark + 4" move and then charge is a bit more useable.

[Spagunk]

 

 

Tartaros I don’t get. Besides the look, I just don’t really understand these fellas’ purpose. Enlighten me please.

• Unique weapon options: Reaper Autocannon, Plasma Blaster, Grenade Harnesses & Volkite
• 6" move instead of 5"

Treat them as slightly more shooty/ speedy Indomitus.

Right. That’s why I scratch my head: “speedier” terminators is a big of an oxymoron.

 

As for the weapon options you list, I don’t see the value they bring justifying giving up what the Cataphractii or Indominatus bring instead. In 7th the grenade harnesses could at least let you attack at initiative while charging through terrain (remember that PITA rule?).

 

Again, this is not to be a put down or impinge anyone who loves them. I just don’t get Tartaros.

 

It is cool that at least anyone who likes the looks better and “officially” play them now, so that’s a net boon for sure.

 

They keep up with infantry? So you'd have your heavy hitters taking some pressure off your advance? Heck if I know, they just look super cool!

[Charlo]

 

 

Tartaros I don’t get. Besides the look, I just don’t really understand these fellas’ purpose. Enlighten me please.

• Unique weapon options: Reaper Autocannon, Plasma Blaster, Grenade Harnesses & Volkite
• 6" move instead of 5"

Treat them as slightly more shooty/ speedy Indomitus.

Right. That’s why I scratch my head: “speedier” terminators is a big of an oxymoron.

 

As for the weapon options you list, I don’t see the value they bring justifying giving up what the Cataphractii or Indominatus bring instead. In 7th the grenade harnesses could at least let you attack at initiative while charging through terrain (remember that PITA rule?).

 

Again, this is not to be a put down or impinge anyone who loves them. I just don’t get Tartaros.

 

It is cool that at least anyone who likes the looks better and “officially” play them now, so that’s a net boon for sure.

 

 

Feels like you are purposefully ignoring what they bring though just to purely stay ignorant and evasive of them...

 

If you want terminators with Plasma and a little extra shooting over Indomitus, are faster and also have options for some other combat weapons than fists then that's what they offer.

 

If you only want Fists/ Combi Bolters/ Missiles/ Assault Cannons/ Heavy Flamers then yeah - you don't need to worry aha.

[Panzer]

if you deepstrike cataphractii and fail to get them in the most they will be is a nuisance. 4" move and half advance distance pretty much means your enemy can comfortably move that juicy unit you planned to charge out of range and you are stuck in the middle of nowhere going the slowest out of almost any unit in the game.

 

not disputing they look boss, and out of a vehicle, 3" disembark + 4" move and then charge is a bit more useable.

That's why you have to deepstrike them beside a unit that doesn't want to move away. ;)

Cataphractii are a unit to react to the enemy not a unit to act before he does.

[Indefragable]

 

 

 

 

Tartaros I don’t get. Besides the look, I just don’t really understand these fellas’ purpose. Enlighten me please.

• Unique weapon options: Reaper Autocannon, Plasma Blaster, Grenade Harnesses & Volkite
• 6" move instead of 5"

Treat them as slightly more shooty/ speedy Indomitus.

Right. That’s why I scratch my head: “speedier” terminators is a big of an oxymoron.

 

As for the weapon options you list, I don’t see the value they bring justifying giving up what the Cataphractii or Indominatus bring instead. In 7th the grenade harnesses could at least let you attack at initiative while charging through terrain (remember that PITA rule?).

 

Again, this is not to be a put down or impinge anyone who loves them. I just don’t get Tartaros.

 

It is cool that at least anyone who likes the looks better and “officially” play them now, so that’s a net boon for sure.

Feels like you are purposefully ignoring what they bring though just to purely stay ignorant and evasive of them...

 

If you want terminators with Plasma and a little extra shooting over Indomitus, are faster and also have options for some other combat weapons than fists then that's what they offer.

 

If you only want Fists/ Combi Bolters/ Missiles/ Assault Cannons/ Heavy Flamers then yeah - you don't need to worry aha.

Ah ok. You can mix n’ match LC’s into a dakka squad. That makes more sense now.

 

Sorry, not trying to play the ignorant card I just-personally, in my own humblest of opinions—just see less value in what makes the Tartaros different worthwhile. You and others have done a good job pointing out the differences.

[Xenith]

Yes, I think tartarsauce terms can mix LC armed guys with sbokters and chainfists. I don't think they can take guys with combi bolter and single claw like catas can. Either way. 5 men, reaper, plasma blaster, harness, 3x claws. Done.

[Bremon]

Our trait and the new terminator stratagem go a long way to convincing me relatively mobile foot termies with claws can be very helpful.

[our_baz]

For me, doesn't bother me too much how effective they are. They will end up in my lists due to the rule of cool.

[durdle-durdle]

I very much like cataphractii terminators with combi bolters and a lightning claws. They put out a good number of shots, and tear down any non Uber Melee squads. They seem more like an anvil you drop somewhere to force your opponent to either spend a lot of resources removing, force them away from an area, or die to.

 

For me Tartarus vs indominatus seems to come down to 3 things.

 

1.) do you value s7 over s6 but 2 more shots on the assault cannon or cyclone launcher (indominatus wins here imo)

 

2.) do you value m6 over m5 a lot? (I don’t)

 

3.). Do you value the plasma blaster on the sgt? (Tartarus wins here I think.).

 

For me, I think regular terminators are better for ranged utility, cataphractii for infantry shredding, and hammernators for ultimate tank. If you want all out ranged terminators, the Tartarus can be better, but i’d lean to the indominatus personally.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'd had some Tartarus done up with twin Lightning Claws to use as an Assault Terminator Squad before, with the Sarge with TH/SS, and had a Cataphractii box ready for assembly, that I think will get CB/LC for each, maybe a Heavy Flamer for extra fun. Might have to redo that Sarge now though.

[SM1981]

For me terminators were Mephi's entourage. Basically because they both have limited movement compared to our other JP Characters and Elites, so they paired well. Also giving him the support of a bunch of storm bolter and a cyclone to soften things before he hits them is nice, and their powerfists do work too.

 

I can see Cataphracti being useful in a similar function with their combiweapons and claws. I'm not sure about Tartaros.

 

Ultimatley we will need to see the rules and points costs before settling on builds / a decision on whether they are "viable".

 

But as with everything relating to "is it worth it / how should I build?", I would respond.

1) Do they offer you something that is unique from the other options in your arsenal?

2) If the answer to the above is no, then do they have a build option that does anything your current army does but either better or cheaper?

 

If the answer to one of the above is yes, build to that purpose. If the answer to both is no, then build for cool aesthetics.

[Ishagu]

I use Tartaros because I think they look really cool.

 

I think they are better than regular Terminators :-)

Edited November 29, 2017 by Ishagu

[Kasper_Hawser]

I use Tartaros because I think they look really cool.

 

I think they are better than regular Terminators :-)

 

I beg to agree to disagree, as someone else mentioned, "agile terminators" seem a bit of an oxymoron. You may as well call them artificer armour with a Refractor field. 

 

But this is GW, they hardly have the most logical (by fantasy/sci-fi standards) or consistent basis for designing their amour and vehicles. It's just that until the invention of Tartaros, my image of Terminators were huge hulking unstoppable, well, hulks of armour impervious to small arms and even able to resist big arms. (despite what rules say)

 

right now, everytime I see Tartaros, i think of DOW3 Gabriel Angelos doing backflips and jumping 4 times his height into the air for a smackdown.

[Sawtooth]

The Cataphracti invulnerable save is what most interests me, since I find them so valuable in 8th. I'll have to proxy them and see if they perform well, I'm a little dubious.