transhuman implants + abilities

[mc warhammer]

this primaris business has me wondering- do we have a (partial) list of implants and abilities in transhumans outside of the astartes?

 

from what i gather, the extra implants in the primaris bring them closer to primarchs in ability, implying that either the primarchs themselves have similar organs or that the primaris organs mimic an ability in their gene-sires.

 

do we have any clues as to what extra organs might be inside a primarch, thunder warrior or custodes?

 

a primarch seems to be super strong, super resilient to physical harm and disease and poisons, healing factors, partially psychic, super intelligent with impeccable balance...but can they spit acid and whatnot? can they enter suspended animation?

 

similarly, i know that custodes and thunder warriors both have superior strength and reflexes, but do they have the same variety of abilities that a space marine does? or are all those quirky powers unique to astartes?

[Phoebus]

Great topic!

 

I'll enter this discussion with "absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence" in my mind.

 

Where Thunder Warriors are concerned, there may very well be some correlation between their template and that of the Astartes. Very early fiction (Space Marine) indicated that the later in life someone received the gene-seed that less superhuman they'd become. Later Codices (Angels of Death) pointed out that, past a certain age, gene-seed implantation wasn't possible. Finally, Horus Heresy-era stories indicated that if a candidate was too old implantation may be a death sentence. In The Outcast Dead, however, Arik Taranis sees gene-seed as a solution to his own physical deterioration. To me this means that while the Legiones Astartes were a replacement for the Thunder Warrior model, there must have been enough commonalities between their templates for an already centuries-old Taranik to somehow utilize the gene-seed for his own form. Now, does this mean he's literally looking to implant an ossmodula, a biscopea, etc.? Or do Thunder Warriors already have similar organs that may have produced greater results (Thunder Warriors being shown to be physically more powerful than Astartes and thinking of themselves as thus, as well) but burned out faster? If it's the latter, then Taranis may have been looking for the "coding" in the gene-seed that would allow him to halt the degradation of his own body/implanted organs.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

I think the term implants can't really be used in context of the Primarchs. Probably more along the lines of mimicking, as you say, some facet of the abilities that are given to the Primarchs from inception. 

I don't think there's been much of a study done on Primarch biology, but IIRC Fulgrim had multiple hearts, as did Guilliman, but they were grown that way. The Lion can evidently see into the IR spectra, so who knows what's in his eyes.

[Phoebus]

Great point, from an Apothecary no less! I guess that would be a rather elegant distinction: mass-produced Thunder Warriors and Space Marines rely on an implantation process, whereas Custodians perhaps have their actual genetic architecture modified (hence the tailored approach, though they may also benefit from implants, as well) and Primarchs are grown into the specimens they are.

[mc warhammer]

Great topic!

 

I'll enter this discussion with "absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence" in my mind.

 

Where Thunder Warriors are concerned, there may very well be some correlation between their template and that of the Astartes. Very early fiction (Space Marine) indicated that the later in life someone received the gene-seed that less superhuman they'd become. Later Codices (Angels of Death) pointed out that, past a certain age, gene-seed implantation wasn't possible. Finally, Horus Heresy-era stories indicated that if a candidate was too old implantation may be a death sentence. In The Outcast Dead, however, Arik Taranis sees gene-seed as a solution to his own physical deterioration. To me this means that while the Legiones Astartes were a replacement for the Thunder Warrior model, there must have been enough commonalities between their templates for an already centuries-old Taranik to somehow utilize the gene-seed for his own form. Now, does this mean he's literally looking to implant an ossmodula, a biscopea, etc.? Or do Thunder Warriors already have similar organs that may have produced greater results (Thunder Warriors being shown to be physically more powerful than Astartes and thinking of themselves as thus, as well) but burned out faster? If it's the latter, then Taranis may have been looking for the "coding" in the gene-seed that would allow him to halt the degradation of his own body/implanted organs.

 

any indication if tw linked into their power armour like space marines do? did the mark I require a black carapace?

 

i'm inclined along the same lines as you- that the importance of gene seed to taranik implies some sort of overlap in their enhancements. right now, it's very vaguely "stronger and tougher than astartes" (which seems to be every transhuman)

[mc warhammer]

I think the term implants can't really be used in context of the Primarchs. Probably more along the lines of mimicking, as you say, some facet of the abilities that are given to the Primarchs from inception. 

I don't think there's been much of a study done on Primarch biology, but IIRC Fulgrim had multiple hearts, as did Guilliman, but they were grown that way. The Lion can evidently see into the IR spectra, so who knows what's in his eyes.

 

yeah, implants was def the wrong wording. i suppose i meant to say "extra" or "non standard human" organs.

 

i wonder if primarchs still had appendixes? like the emp left it in the mix for a giggle.

 

and you're right, now i recall primarchs being described as having hearts (plural).  i'm guessing there was a base range of abilities/enhancements they all had (maybe including the IR eye thing) and then individual advantages like corax's and sanguinnius' on top.

[Phoebus]

mc warhammer,

 

I'm inclined to believe the Thunder Warriors did not have a Black Carapace, nor did their power armour include an advanced neural interface. I have no proof to back this up. I do, however, think it fits the overall theme that we see with the Legiones Astartes/Adeptus Astartes versus certain other transhumans.

 

Let me amplify for a second.

 

While certain transhumans possess strength and fortitude superior to that of Astartes, they suffer from compromises elsewhere. The Thunder Warriors, for example, were a stop-gap model. Their bodies burn out over time, and they appear to be mentally unstable. It follows, then, that the technology they were outfitted with was a stop-gap, as well. After all, Mark I Power Armour would have been produced with the lesser, pre-Unity resources available to the Emperor at the time.

 

Astartes may not be as brutishly strong as the above examples, but they are superior in many other ways. The most important advantages they have - and the one probably most overlooked - are their enhanced minds and psychological conditioning. They are effectively fearless, indoctrinated to group-thought (as parts of Squads, Companies, Chapters, etc.), and capable of processing - and acting on - a staggering amount of tactical data with computer-like speed. They are aided in their task by technology that is not just superior to their predecessors and (most of their) contemporaries, but holistic to their mission. Their power armour, for instance, doesn't just protect them; it massively increases their physical strength and speed, it's a link to their weapons, an environmental suit, a first aid device, their communication apparatus, and a tactical network through which they are able to track the conduct of an entire war.

 

There are Transhumans that are comprehensively superior to the Astartes model, of course: see the Officio Assassinorum, for instance, or the Adeptus Custodes. They tend to come in far lower number, though.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Phoebus

[godking]

Great topic!

 

I'll enter this discussion with "absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence" in my mind.

 

Where Thunder Warriors are concerned, there may very well be some correlation between their template and that of the Astartes. Very early fiction (Space Marine) indicated that the later in life someone received the gene-seed that less superhuman they'd become. Later Codices (Angels of Death) pointed out that, past a certain age, gene-seed implantation wasn't possible. Finally, Horus Heresy-era stories indicated that if a candidate was too old implantation may be a death sentence. In The Outcast Dead, however, Arik Taranis sees gene-seed as a solution to his own physical deterioration. To me this means that while the Legiones Astartes were a replacement for the Thunder Warrior model, there must have been enough commonalities between their templates for an already centuries-old Taranik to somehow utilize the gene-seed for his own form. Now, does this mean he's literally looking to implant an ossmodula, a biscopea, etc.? Or do Thunder Warriors already have similar organs that may have produced greater results (Thunder Warriors being shown to be physically more powerful than Astartes and thinking of themselves as thus, as well) but burned out faster? If it's the latter, then Taranis may have been looking for the "coding" in the gene-seed that would allow him to halt the degradation of his own body/implanted organs.

The spacewolves of the 13th company where at the very least 35 years old when they became space marines but the spacewolves may have been an exception

[Phoebus]

Wolf at the Door is actually the story I had in mind when I wrote that. In it, the Space Wolves themselves recount how, despite the Emperor's warning, Russ's sword-brothers clamored to be transformed into Space Marines so they could continue fighting alongside him. Not one of them was supposedly younger than twenty years old. The vast majority of them did die, with just two score out of hundreds surviving the process.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Maybe there needs to be a (obviously heretical) Xenology type work done by someone in the setting (y'all know who I'm talking about) about a couple of the Primarchs...maybe a certain...iron handed one...or something.

That'd actually kinda be cool, in-universe scribblings from deep inside the Warp.

[mc warhammer]

Maybe there needs to be a (obviously heretical) Xenology type work done by someone in the setting (y'all know who I'm talking about) about a couple of the Primarchs...maybe a certain...iron handed one...or something.

That'd actually kinda be cool, in-universe scribblings from deep inside the Warp.

 

handled well, i'd like that. i wouldn't want to remove all the mystery behind the emp's work, but a someone puzzling over primarch physiology and making huge leaps of logic that may or may not be right would be a fun read.

[b1soul]

Almost all the primarchs' pre-contact honour guards (adults) tried to become Astartes with varying degrees of success. Russ and the Khan come to mind.

[Phoebus]

Luther - and other knights of the Order (one of whom is a minor character in the Horus Heresy series) - had to settle for becoming "near-Astartes." They did not pursue the transformation precisely because of the lethality of the process.

 

You covered Russ, and I'll confess that I forgot about any Scars character being inducted later in life. I can't recall the Primarchs of the VII-XIV Legions having older companions becoming Space Marines, though. Nor do I think Horus or Vulkan did. Magnus had Amon, of course, and Lorgar had Kor Phaeron. Were any of Corax's lieutenants older prisoners? With Alpharius and Omegon, there's every possibility... but I doubt we'll ever know.

[b1soul]

Thunder Warriors are also a PR nightmare...great ammo for enemy propaganda

[Kinstryfe]

My $.02 from what I've gleaned over the years...

 

Thunder Warriors: That one would pursue geneseed as a cure probably means that there is some link between whatever enhancements and organs they have and Astartes. Which is interesting because geneseed was supposedly a result of the Primarchs going missing, while this could imply that the Astartes were actually the desired end result, and the Primarch project was simply a way of getting there, with super warriors thrown in as a bonus.

 

Primarchs: I would imagine they all share some base commonalities. Why invent the wheel 20 times when you've already invented it? It makes more sense that he would create the Primarch base code, and tweak it with intent from there. I've thought that Primarchs are actually genetically closer than may be obvious for awhile. There are two things in the lore that I think can support this. First, there is the fact that geneseed cannot always be conclusively distinguished between sources without seeing it's effects upon implantation. Second, during Imperium Secundus, while over Macragge Civitas, Curze was able to activate a gene print requiring a Primarchs' genetics. Were The Dark Angels assault protocols keyed so that any Primarch could activate them (which I find hard to believe for such a secretive Legion), or is it simply that one Primarch is largely indistinguishable from another? It would answer the nagging question of why even Astartes Apothecaries can't distinguish one type of geneseed from another: at a genetic level, they are all too similar.

 

Custodes: They've been described as being essentially unique works of art. I would actually be surprised if they even follow one set internal design. I imagine them as being where The Emperor experimented with his genecraft. Each one is superb, but he was bound to try new things here and there as he was essentially rewriting their genetics from the ground up.